Dante vs Astorath

[JamesI]

I'd like to use Reclusiarchs and Astaroth as well, the problem for the former is the Libby, and for the latter Dante. Both pale in comparsion.

Astorath pales compared to Dante? I don't see it. Everytime I try to make a list using Dante, I always end up running Astorath instead.

 

 

This got started in another thread, but was OT to that thread, so I'll ask the question here.

 

As everyone probably knows, I am a huge Astorath fan. Each has their advantages, and they are pretty similar in points.

 

Thinking generically, which is better for DOA lists and why? I'll post the specific list in the List area soon to see which is better for my particular list.

[knife&fork]

I know this was touched upon in the previous thread but I still think Astaroth is a bit overpriced. Besides from granting more DC slots I think his buffs are a bit underwhelming and his damage output is ok but suffers a bit from only having 3 A.

[Morollan]

I know this was touched upon in the previous thread but I still think Astaroth is a bit overpriced. Besides from granting more DC slots I think his buffs are a bit underwhelming and his damage output is ok but suffers a bit from only having 3 A.

 

I find Dante's somewhat underwhelming Strength also limits his damage output quite severely, although I love his Hit & Run and no scatter Deep Strike. I like both characters but I've not used Astorath enough to have an informed opinion.

[Brother Nathan]

i think astro is better.

dante really only gives a pinpoint deepstrike( which when you consider we deepstrike quite accurately isnt a big thing)which affects one squad, hit and run for one squad. and the nerfing of a character... oh and he unlocks goloden wing

 

astro, is an uber chappy, so gives his unit rerolls to hit (and to wound if they are death co). and with a str6 powerweapon that rerolls succesful inv saves hes not a joke in cc even if he only has 3 attacks.in many cases hell probably do as much if not more than dante that way. then you have that he increases the odds of the red thirst massively. sure its not guaranteed but it would make me feel much better about the likes of vanguard veterans as im less likely to need to get a priest near them. of course he works better when you have lots of squads and means your need for priests goes down( still probably want one for fnp and to cover those who dont get the red thirst...) and then you get the death company army he unlocks. unfortunately he has a jump pack with regards to this and his 2 abilitys dont quite work together as death co dot benifit from red thirst as they are already raving crazy loonies. and you still have the problem of a rage infueled force hat dosent score but it is fun. and deadly. the only thing is he has a jump pack and they shouldnt as it costs too much but you can alwas go raven or scoring ras...

 

saying that the 2 work even better together, dante weakenng a guy an astr taking the head, pinpoint drop with rerolls to hit on the charge andthen hit and run and do it again, probably with whatever unit they have joined having furious charge...

 

unfortunately i dont have space in my list for either character...

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I'd say Dante. His hit and run is almost automatic succes, and he can put himself and any attached meltaguns in ranged for the rules. I usually run him with a RAS and a priest.

Bouncing back and forth is great fun!

[JamesI]

I like the precision and hit and run for Dante. His mask is nice, as is the extra wound, initiative and attack. If Dante's Axe gave him +1 strength rather than master crafted, I think he would win hands down. Or if he was an Eternal Warrior he would win hands down.

 

But the 50% red thirst for units like Vanguard is really good. Astorath's Axe is so much better at dealing with demons and stormshields or even most characters with 4++ saves.

 

I think this might be one of those no right answer things.

 

Some lists, Dante is better, some lists Astorath is better.

[Spassbueroler]

But the 50% red thirst for units like Vanguard is really good. Astorath's Axe is so much better at dealing with demons and stormshields or even most characters with 4++ saves.

 

With Dante you can guarantee that your VV have FC (and Feel no Pain). Put a Priest in his Squad and place them where you need them. Even without Dante I have never a problem to drop a priest near my VV.

 

The Axe indeed is very nice. But also is Dante's Hit and Run. Charge again with lost of PW Attacks from your Sang. Guard at S5 I5.

 

Also I think if you don't use many DC Squads Astorath doesn't fit in fluffwise. And they even don't need his red thirst boost.

 

So for me... Dante wins!

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

But the 50% red thirst for units like Vanguard is really good. Astorath's Axe is so much better at dealing with demons and stormshields or even most characters with 4++ saves.

 

With Dante you can guarantee that your VV have FC (and Feel no Pain). Put a Priest in his Squad and place them where you need them. Even without Dante I have never a problem to drop a priest near my VV.

 

The Axe indeed is very nice. But also is Dante's Hit and Run. Charge again with lost of PW Attacks from your Sang. Guard at S5 I5.

 

Also I think if you don't use many DC Squads Astorath doesn't fit in fluffwise. And they even don't need his red thirst boost.

 

So for me... Dante wins!

 

I was just going to say that about thise V.V's and Dante. Thing is, when I run dante with the RAS and Priest, the slice through most things like cookies. Dante strikes first at I7, then come priest with 3 clawattacks and some 20-odd normal guys, followed by a fist. This is usually enough to remove TH/SS termies, who just were in a Landraider. When that fails, they can always run. Sure, Astaroths re-rolls are nice and all, but realistically, Dante will be at str.5 when he charges, and Astaroth can't get to 7, so the melee impact difference isn't that great.

[greatcrusade08]

im normally on the receiving end, on that front i fear dante more.. he nerfs my best cc character into nothing more than a glorified sergeant..

that never sits right with me tbh, bolstering you own army is one thing, nerfing the enemy before the game starts is crazy.

 

thats said Astorath is a much cooler choice IMO.. rule of cool always wins with me.

im not entirely sure how the red thirst thing works though

[SincaiN]

I prefer Dante myself. I like Asto but to me and the way I build my lists Dante is more useful.

 

The 50% RT is nice but I usually have a Priest in the squads I'm really looking to boost. And I don't really use more then the 1 DC in my lists. It's no doubt that if Asto gets into Combat he takes the advantage.

 

No matter what happens I know Dante is going to make an impact. Nerfing a chararacter is a nice bonus and on DOA I usually use SG, so they are now scoring. Plus If I plan to really Melta up a squad I place them in the squad Dantes going to run with (not to mention he has a melta where Asto only has a Bolt Pistol). Really gives you a high change of popping a tank of your choice plus it really lets you place them where you want them. If you are going for the rear armor or want to get into cover, scattering right into the open sucks. Plus hit and run is very useful.

 

For me it's Dante's other factors that makes him a better fit for me, a lucky shot can end them both and Asto's points would have gone to waste but Dante already nerfed a character and your SG are troops.

 

Asto - CC +

Dante - Everything Else +

 

Thats for me at least. :D

[BOBMAKENZIE]

It occurs to me that they are both designed for different types of lists. Astorath is clearly designed to work with a list that uses minimal priests to help maximize furious charge and fearless. Whilst Dante gives the most benefit to any army that uses at least one squad of Sanguinary Guard. Are either the optimal choice for a DOA army? I propose that the answer is no neither are. However they both offer great synergy to the army which is superior is preference and specific army build.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

It occurs to me that they are both designed for different types of lists. Astorath is clearly designed to work with a list that uses minimal priests to help maximize furious charge and fearless. Whilst Dante gives the most benefit to any army that uses at least one squad of Sanguinary Guard. Are either the optimal choice for a DOA army? I propose that the answer is no neither are. However they both offer great synergy to the army which is superior is preference and specific army build.

 

Dante has plenty going for him without ever having SG in the army. Sure, they help, but unless you play nipplewing, having SG on an objective isn't the greatest thing ever. Sure, they could free up some elites slots, but DoA armies tend to use like... 1-3 priests and pretty much take a piss on the elites department. But it is a nice bonus.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

My theory was that it never hurts to have a bonus Troops since you'll be pushing units off objectives with the Sanguard anyway.... I also specified he gave the most benefit not that he was useless just that if you're using SangGuard anyway hes certainly a nice little perk to go with the unit.

[Brother Nathan]

thing is though if this was a fluff question astro would never see play... but i must say i do prefer astros model...(well jumppack and axe anyway)

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

thing is though if this was a fluff question astro would never see play... but i must say i do prefer astros model...(well jumppack and axe anyway)

 

Well, Dante has the dubious honour of being like 15 years old. I used to think the model was quite rad back in the day. But you're right about the fluff, Astro makes no sense whatsoever. So I applaud James for making him something else. You wouldn't happen to have any fluff on your chapter James?

[Brother Nathan]

lol, he ain the only one to do so you know;) its just as well that he has stats good enough to represent a chaptermaster otherwise everyone would be stuck with dante(not thats bad as weve had to do it before, back when dante was awsome...)

and yea i still do think dantes model is awsome especially for his age. when i started his was the best model gw had, closely followed by the emperors champion... i modified mines axe to make it look a bit biger and it just feels so much better as a result...

[JamesI]

thing is though if this was a fluff question astro would never see play... but i must say i do prefer astros model...(well jumppack and axe anyway)

 

Well, Dante has the dubious honour of being like 15 years old. I used to think the model was quite rad back in the day. But you're right about the fluff, Astro makes no sense whatsoever. So I applaud James for making him something else. You wouldn't happen to have any fluff on your chapter James?

Not much yet. Fluff writing is not one of my 40k skills.

[HERO]

thing is though if this was a fluff question astro would never see play... but i must say i do prefer astros model...(well jumppack and axe anyway)

 

Well, Dante has the dubious honour of being like 15 years old. I used to think the model was quite rad back in the day. But you're right about the fluff, Astro makes no sense whatsoever. So I applaud James for making him something else. You wouldn't happen to have any fluff on your chapter James?

Not much yet. Fluff writing is not one of my 40k skills.

 

That's fine, it's also not one of Ward's skills either.

 

Either way, I think I like Dante better. Tactical Precision makes sure you land where you want and how you want it. In a unit of 10x ASM w/ Meltas, Sergeant with Melta and Dante's Melta, I find that they always land and take out what I need them to. Attach a Sanguinary Priest to them and you're good to go. The squad's not even that effective for what it can do. You got meltas, some PWs, Fist and hit & run - basically everything BA needs to get the job done.

[Elsven]

I personally love Dante I have used him with and without SG ether way he has more than enough abilities to make up for not having SG. Mainly the 6 I7 attacks with one reroll, usually this means that two or three will stick on regular guys and only one on monstrous creatures. Sure his strength is a bit low but with hit and run your usually attacking with strength 5 I 7 so that helps a lot. The best thing is no one can tie up your unit since his initiative test is against his own inititive. I have also used hit and run many times to get him across the table much quicker since you role 3d6 inches away from your desired target. The down side is when you finish the enemy off before he can use it. I also like a lot of Astorath’s abilities, hitting at strength 6 is big, however he will only get 4 attacks on the charge since he has a two handed weapon. Also lets not forget that if they do get a save against this power weapon they will have to reroll increasing your odds of making it stick by 200% this means that most of the time he will get 2 or more attacks to stick on daemons. So in short Asteroth will hit better against monstrous creatures and buffs the unit a bit, where Dante buffs the unit a lot but does less damage to monstrous creatures. Also I do feel that Asteroth is overpriced since he is not all that much better than a Reclusiarch and his abilities do not stack.

[marine77]

I would stick with Dante. He has more abilities that make him solid. His biggest deal in my opinion is to make sanguinary guard troops. Other than giving us nice hammer units in good quantity, it allows us to free up elite slots. The precision strike is a boon for a honor guard squad. Being able to drop 4 meltas or plasma guns into point blank range is great. Then having hit and run is also a wonderful thing. That ultimately makes him and his squad scary. I play him with 3 units of sanguinary guard. He and a priest join a unit of SG with 2 infernus pistols. They land and blow up a tank. Then in the next turn, they are charged or charge. Then use hit and run to disengage and recharge. His death mask is great. A way that I like to use it is to curse a libby and torrent wounds at him. With only 1 remaining wound he will go down fast. Ultimately, Dante is not a combat beast, but he is a solid character and provides his army (especially DoA armies) with loads of benefits.

 

Ashtorath is a fairly decent beat stick character. He allows us to bring more DC (which I don't recommend) and he makes it easier to get red thirst. This is a two edged sword. FC is good and fearless can be good, but it can also hurt you if you can't win combats. 3+ models still die somewhat easily if they take a lot of fearless wounds.

 

When you weigh it out, Dante wins. You can't weigh everything on how much a character can kill (unless that character's name begins in "Meph" and ends in "iston"). You have to take a look at what they bring to the army. Dante just builds more synergy.

[daboarder]

It definitely depends on the list.

 

If your running a large number of priests and no DC then Astorath is slightly over costed, other than that he is very good.

 

Personally I like Dante in my lists as I really fear fast skimmers and barrage tanks such as the night spinner. Running Dante with a RAS with 2 melta's ensures that the key enemy tank/transport DIES when and where I want it too. This also works great as a 1 2 to the face when you drop pop and assault a hammer or shooty unit in a transport all on the DS preventing the vast majority of damage the enemy can put out.

 

Dante's hit and run also allows you a great deal of flexibility and him and his squad can monster their way through entire armored flanks with careful use of assault and melta. Not to mention his death mask is a further gimp to some of those nasty characters such as Abbadon and Draigo, I mean a free wound right of the bat is definitely worth a lot never mind the rest of the bonuses.

[Morticon]

I'd say Dante. His hit and run is almost automatic succes

 

 

?

:D

How so?

[Morollan]

I'd say Dante. His hit and run is almost automatic succes

 

 

?

:D

How so?

 

Because his I is so high that he only fails on a 6.

[Morticon]

I'd say Dante. His hit and run is almost automatic succes

 

 

?

:D

How so?

 

Because his I is so high that he only fails on a 6.

 

But who plays Dante as one model? He's usually with a squad.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I'd say Dante. His hit and run is almost automatic succes

 

 

?

:D

How so?

 

Because his I is so high that he only fails on a 6.

 

But who plays Dante as one model? He's usually with a squad.

 

Surely, the entire squad rolls for this using Dante's I.