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Opposition

As part of an ongoing series, here is my 1500 "All Comer List" and it is based on a list I took against Eldar in the fifth edition. For my next battle it is likely to be used against an Eldar or Marine force and what these opposition forces consist of can be seen in my blog.

 

The List

 

Librarian

~ Shield and Rage

 

Sanguinary Priest

~ Power Sword

 

Assault Squad (8)

~ Melta Gun

~ Plasma Pistol, Power Axe, Melta Bomb

~ Rhino

~~ Extra Armour

 

Tactical Squad (10)

~ Plasma Gun

~ Missile Launcher

~ Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Melta Bomb

~ Rhino

~~ Extra Armour

 

Lemartes

 

Death Company (5)

~ Jump Pack

~ Bolter, Power Fist (1)

 

Scout Squad (5)

~ Heavy Bolter

~ Sniper Rifle (4)

~ Camo Cloak

 

Attack Bike Squadron (2)

~ Multi Melta (2)

 

Predator Destructor

~ Lascannon Sponsons

~ Search Light

 

"Fragioso" Dreadnought

~ Frag Cannon

~ Melta Gun

~ Magna Grapple

~ Drop Pod

 

 

Options

As you can see I have my "rock" assault unit that is screened by the three tanks and the bikes. I have an objective sitter, a distraction and no anti air (but I wont need that for this fight). However I can't help but wonder how I can further tweak this.

 

1) Do I have enough scoring troops at this level and do I have too many eggs in one basket seeing as I have a singular moving force?

2) I'm using Jump Packs on the Death Company to a) have Lemartes and b ) allow for quicker charging, but would it be better to drop the Jump Packs and Lemartes, add either a Chaplain or another DC with a Power Sword and put them in the available Razorback, allowing more points to be spent elsewhere?

3) What should I do if I face a lot of terminators?

4) Should I look into divination for the Librarian?

 

Looking forward to your thoughts :smile:

Edited by Brother Tyler
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Extra armour is a waste of points really this edition, also on the assault sergeant I would take the plasma pistol off, 15pts for (most likely) 1-2 shots isn't really worth it especially when you can kill yourself and he's equipped for HTH combat anyways, if anything give it to the librarian with better BS or better yet the tactical sergeant. Deathcompany with packs are overpriced, and razers/rhinos aren't viable as 1) no assault 2) any good opponent will prioritize them the turn they disembark. Drop pod or assault vehicle are the way to go. Also I would run the RAS with packs for the same reasons and you could put packs on the librarian and Sang. Priest to follow behind the rhino/bikes for cover and you could get that second melta in there.
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Thank you for taking the time to reply. I should have mentioned in the original post that any changes are restricted to what I have in my collection, which is listed on my blog.

 

Extra armour is a waste of points really this edition,

 

The idea of the Extra Armour is so that the Rhinos keep pace with everything and remain in Shield range. If one of them can't move, that slows my force up and is that worth the risk at the start of the game?

 

also on the assault sergeant I would take the plasma pistol off, 15pts for (most likely) 1-2 shots isn't really worth it especially when you can kill yourself and he's equipped for HTH combat anyways, if anything give it to the librarian with better BS or better yet the tactical sergeant.

 

I could switch him out no problem and go for a combi-weapon on the Tactical Sergeant (or a pistol on the Librarian), but with the Assault Squad only comprising of eight models, I want the extra "special shot" in that squad. Also the Priest can help keep him alive.

 

Deathcompany with packs are overpriced, and razers/rhinos aren't viable as 1) no assault 2) any good opponent will prioritize them the turn they disembark. Drop pod or assault vehicle are the way to go.

 

Sadly the only Assault Vehicle I have available is a standard pattern Land Raider (too expensive at 1500) and I have no more Pods. The only available option is a Razorback which I feel isn't a good idea for the DC due to the later charge, extra cost and if it is popped early they will be on foot. Despite being expensive, the Jump Packs allow for Lemartes, arguably better cover/hidden options and an earlier charge.

 

Also I would run the RAS with packs for the same reasons and you could put packs on the librarian and Sang. Priest to follow behind the rhino/bikes for cover and you could get that second melta in there.

 

Sadly I don't have a Jump Pack borne RAS in my collection, otherwise I would try this

 

As you can see, I'm stumped on making certain changes :)

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That's completely understandable, we've all been there. I don't like magnetizing so until I built my force up I was limited with options as well.

 

As to what you have available, I read what you have and one thing sticks out: MEPHISTON -> monster at this (or any really) points level :D Also, hate to say it as it takes away from the BA theme but you might be better off turning that assault squad into a tactical, ditch the scouts, extra armour to get the points for mephy and the tacticals. So your force would look like:

 

HQ:

 

Mephiston

 

Troops:

 

Tacticals squad: missile launcher, plasma gun, sergeant- combi, melta bombs

Rhino

 

Tacticals squad: missile launcher, plasma gun, sergeant- combi, melta bombs

Rhino

 

Lemartes:

 

Death company (5): jump pack, fist, bolters

 

Elite:

 

Fragioso: fragcannon, H-flamer, magna

Drop pod

 

Fast attack:

 

Attack bikes (2): MM

 

Heavy support:

 

Predator: autocannon, laz sponsons

 

Ok, so that leaves 10 pts to play with...

 

I hope your opponents don't bring fliers though as either of these lists won't have an efficient answer...

 

PS. if your rhinos are getting stunned their probably going to get wrecked anyway that turn, thank you 6th!! :P

 

Hope this helps...

Edited by AngelsWithBaals
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I wouldnt give bolters to the DC, since you have Lemartes. You lose 5 attacks with WS/Str 5 with reroll to hit and to wound (from Lemartes) and you gain 5 shots with BS/Str 4. Not really worth it imo.

Generally i dont like JPs on the DC, due to their cost, but unfortunately its the only way to include Lemartes, i know. If you really want Lemmy in, keep it like that, otherwise i would suggest to Pod them(you already have a Podded Dread for first round so it seems good).

 

Mephiston is a monster indeed, but still i think that the original list with the Priest and only one Tactical can work well enough.

Edited by Rutzah
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Thanks again for your replies.

 

AWB, more food for thought and I appreciate that. However I lose a scoring unit going down this route...

 

Rutzah, you only lose those extra attacks in subsequent rounds. Due to Rage you get +2 attacks on the charge :)

 

.

.

.

 

I also had another idea. What if I upgrade the Furioso to a Furioso Librarian with Wings and Shield (allowing my other Librarian Prescience and another), dropping Lemartes and the Jump packs and with the remaining points, boosting the Death Company and putting them in the pod?

 

Of course this amendment leaves me with no rock (requiring me to play more intelligently), but perhaps it gives me more balance?

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Ok, I've done a couple of changes to my original list. Basically I've removed both sets of Extra Armour and the Melta Bomb from the Tactical Sergeant which has given me enough points for another Death Company model. The reason I have kept the Death Company with the packs is simply because I have yet to use them outside of an Apocalypse game (!) and I want to see them in action. Here is the revised list:

 

The List

 

Librarian

~ Shield and Rage

 

Sanguinary Priest

~ Power Sword

 

Assault Squad (8)

~ Melta Gun

~ Plasma Pistol, Power Axe, Melta Bomb

~ Rhino

 

Tactical Squad (10)

~ Plasma Gun

~ Missile Launcher

~ Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

~ Rhino

 

Lemartes

 

Death Company (6)

~ Jump Pack

~ Bolter, Power Fist (1)

 

Scout Squad (5)

~ Heavy Bolter

~ Sniper Rifle (4)

~ Camo Cloak

 

Attack Bike Squadron (2)

~ Multi Melta (2)

 

Predator Destructor

~ Lascannon Sponsons

~ Search Light

 

"Fragioso" Dreadnought

~ Frag Cannon

~ Melta Gun

~ Magna Grapple

~ Drop Pod

 

The battle is this weekend. For Sanguinius and the Emperor!

Edited by Jolemai
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...

So I got a Stormraven Gunship last night and obviously, have decided to shoehorn it into this list! Here is my revised version:

 

The Revised List

Librarian

~ Force Axe
~ Shield and Rage

Sanguinary Priest
~ Power Sword

 

"Fragioso" Dreadnought
~ Frag Cannon
~ Melta Gun
~ Magna Grapple
~ Drop Pod

Assault Squad (5)
~ Melta Gun

~ Inferno Pistol, Power Sword, Melta Bomb
~ Razorback

~~Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

~~ Dozerblade

 

Assault Squad (5)
~ Plasma Pistol
~ Plasma Pistol, Power Axe, Melta Bomb

~ Razorback
~~ Lascannon and Twin-linked Plasma Gun

~~ Dozerblade

Death Company (6)
~ Jump Pack
~ Power Axe

~ Bolter

Scout Squad (5)
~ Heavy Bolter
~ Sniper Rifle (4)

~ Camo Cloaks (5)


Attack Bike Squadron (2)
~ Multi Melta (2)

Predator Destructor
~ Lascannon Sponsons
 

Stormraven Gunship

~ Twin-linked Multi Melta

~ Twin-linked Assault Cannon

~ Hurricane Bolters

 

 

Basically I dropped Lemartes and the Tactical Squad, then I split my RAS into two and put them in Razorbacks. Any thoughts?

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  • 1 year later...

Revised list for 7th edition

 

The Revised List

 

Librarian

~ Force Axe

 

Sanguinary Priest

 

"Fragioso" Dreadnought

~ Frag Cannon

~ Melta Gun

~ Magna Grapple

~ Drop Pod

 

Assault Squad (5)

~ Melta Gun

~ Melta Bomb

~ Razorback

~~Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

 

Assault Squad (5)

~ Flamer

~ Melta Bomb

~ Razorback

~~ Lascannon and Twin-linked Plasma Gun

 

Death Company (6)

~ Power Sword (1)

~ Power Axe (1)

~ Bolter (1)

~ Razorback

~~ Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

 

Scout Squad (5)

~ Combi-flamer

 

Attack Bike Squadron (2)

~ Multi Melta (2)

 

Predator Destructor

~ Lascannon Sponsons

 

Stormraven Gunship

~ Twin-linked Multi Melta

~ Twin-linked Assault Cannon

 

Vindicare Assassin

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  • 3 months later...

First game of the new Codex will be at this level of points, so I thought I'd revamp the list above.

 

Revised list, BSF Formation

 

Librarian

~ Level 2 (Sanguinary or Diviniation)
~ Force Axe

~ Auspex

~ Melta Bomb

"Fragioso" Dreadnought
~ Frag Cannon
~ Melta Gun
~ Magna Grapple
~ Drop Pod

Death Company (6)
~ Power Sword (1)
~ Power Fist and Bolter (1)
~ Bolter (1)
~ Razorback
~~ Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

 

Tactical Squad 10)
~ Plasma Cannon

~ Plasma Gun

~ Veteran Sergeant
~~ Melta Bomb, Combi-Plasma gun
~ Razorback
~~ Lascannon and Twin-linked Plasma Gun

 

Scout Squad (5)

~ Sniper Rifle (5)

Scout Squad (5)

~ Shotgun (1)

~ Veteran Sergeant
~~ Combi-flamer, Melta Bombs

Attack Bike Squadron (2)
~ Multi Melta (2)

Predator Destructor
~ Lascannon Sponsons

~ Overcharged Engines

Stormraven Gunship
~ Twin-linked Multi Melta
~ Twin-linked Assault Cannon

Vindicare Assassin

 

Librarian rides with the Tactical Squad (Plasma gun and Sergeant) to make use of the Auspex. Combat Scouts ride in the Stormraven for late game objective scoring. Otherwise, everything else moves together and backs each other up.

 

As it stands, I don't really like this list, especially as I seem worse off using the new book. Am I playing it too safe by going similar?

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It is in need of an update, but around 85% of my collection is listed here. There's not a great deal missing though.

 

With the list on post 11 I had Objective Secured to worry about but if I go for BSF I should probably go for the most brutal choices I can. One thing I could do is drop an Attack Bike and the Sniper Rifle Scouts, then attach a small force of bikes to the remaining Attack Bike and kit them out with Grav Guns. I could maybe squeeze in a second Tactical in a Razorback to bring my compliment of AV back up.

 

Then there's my Fragioso. He currently goes for First Blood and acts as a distraction unit. Certainly, my opponent hates him (which is worth taking him just for that) but, has his effect been lessened too much? Would I benefit more from using a different type of Dreadnought and deploying him from the Stormraven and using the Pod elsewhere? Choices, choices. Or perhaps a Lucius Pod to assist the force as it moves up?

 

The theme here is supposed to be a lightly mechanised force that moves up (hopefully) unmolested and synergises well together. The Vindicare is there to simply take out what is the most dangerous from afar.

 

Revised list, BSF Formation changes in red.

 

Librarian

~ Level 2 (Sanguinary or Diviniation)
~ Force Axe

~ Auspex

~ Melta Bomb

"Fragioso" Dreadnought
~ Frag Cannon
~ Melta Gun
~ Magna Grapple
~ Lucius Drop Pod

Death Company (6)
~ Power Sword (1)
~ Power Fist and Bolter (1)
~ Bolter (1)
~ Razorback
~~ Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

 

Tactical Squad (5)
~ Plasma Gun

~ Veteran Sergeant
~~ Melta Bomb, Combi-Plasma gun
~ Razorback
~~ Lascannon and Twin-linked Plasma Gun

 

Scout Squad (5)
~ Shotgun (1)

~ Veteran Sergeant
~~ Combi-flamer, Melta Bombs

Bike Squadron (3)
~ Grav Guns (2)

~ Combi-Grav

~ Attack Bike

~~ Multi Melta

Predator Destructor
~ Lascannon Sponsons

~ Overcharged Engines

Stormraven Gunship
~ Twin-linked Multi Melta
~ Twin-linked Assault Cannon

Vindicare Assassin

 

Which leaves me with ~ 88 points to play with. Maybe another Attack Bike and a normal bike? Hmm.

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I think its starting to look pretty solid. The only major issue I see is with your DC. There is like no reason not to take Jump Packs now. Also bolterbacks are kinda unimpressive.

 

Also also, as awesome as the plasmaback's firepower is, it kinda has a big bullseye painted on it due to being 1) high damage 2) low armour 3) a transport. Would drop the Tacs altogether and get another 5 BP/CCW Scouts instead. With the points saved you can get more DC or something.

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Whilst I do have the option of doing that it moves the list away from the light mech category and by removing both Razorbacks, it leaves the Predator as a sitting duck. I'd also need something to hide the advance of jumping Death Company even if it is only AV11 and something for the Librarian to ride in.

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Comments in red.

 

Whilst I do have the option of doing that it moves the list away from the light mech category

 

Well then maybe you need to rework the list more then. Drop the DC and the Scouts, get more Tacs in Razors, maybe think of doing a CAD list instead of a BSF one.

 

and by removing both Razorbacks, it leaves the Predator as a sitting duck.

 

That's not necessarily a bad thing. AV13 is hard to crack, and every shot it takes is a shot that isn't slamming into your DC or bikes or whatnot.

 

I'd also need something to hide the advance of jumping Death Company even if it is only AV11 and something for the Librarian to ride in.

 

Just screen your DC with your bikes. Between the 5+ cover they'll get and FnP, they'll stop 55% of Ap3 and lower shots as long as its below S8. And give your libby a bike or jump pack.

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Honestly, I have notoriously bad luck with bikes so I want them screened! It would be nice to actually fire the Grav weapons too if I'm going to take them... :rolleyes:

 

I *could* proxy a Librarian on a bike but the Librarian powers are still a question. If he goes with the Plasma Tacticals or the Grav bikes, then it's Divination I need ideally but, Sanguinary is arguably a better choice on the Tacticals if I go for BSF rather than CAD (would rather have +1I than ObjSec after all as I'm going to be in combat at some point - my two main opponents are Eldar and Chaos - he's started experimenting with Slaanesh now...).

 

I actually like Bolterbacks but I do find them really pricey with the new book :( As for the Plaserback comment, I know what you mean. There's a reason I almost always rolled within my Shield of Sanguinius bubble back in the day :(

 

Thanks for the help so far. Decisions, decisions.

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Latest version:

 

1500, BSF Formation

 

Librarian

~ Level 2 (Sanguinary or Diviniation)
~ Galian's Staff

~ Auspex

~ Melta Bomb

~ Space Marine Bike

"Fragioso" Dreadnought
~ Frag Cannon
~ Melta Gun
~ Magna Grapple
~ Lucius Drop Pod

Death Company (6)
~ Power Sword (1)
~ Power Fist and Bolter (1)
~ Bolter (1)
~ Razorback
~~ Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

 

Tactical Squad (5)
~ Plasma Gun

~ Veteran Sergeant
~~ Melta Bomb, Combi-Plasma gun
~ Razorback
~~ Lascannon and Twin-linked Plasma Gun

 

Scout Squad (5)
~ Shotgun (1)

~ Veteran Sergeant
~~ Combi-flamer, Melta Bombs

Bike Squadron (5)
~ Grav Guns (2)

~Veteran Sergeant

~~ Combi-Grav

~ Attack Bike

~~ Multi Melta

Predator Destructor
~ Lascannon Sponsons

~ Overcharged Engines

Stormraven Gunship
~ Twin-linked Multi Melta
~ Twin-linked Assault Cannon

Vindicare Assassin

 

So, the Lucius Pod drops in which gives cover for the encroaching Razors and Bikes. When they reach the Pod, the Fragioso can disembark and join combat with either the Death Company or the Bikes (if necessary). The Scouts again stay in the Stormraven for late-game objective hunting whilst the Vindicare takes out anything nasty.

 

The question now is, what Psychic Discipline will benefit me the most? Prescience from Divination will work wonders with the Grav but the Sanguinary discipline will help when combat is eventually joined and it synergises well with the BSF formation.

 

Can probably tweak if further but dropping the DC down to five and the Veteran Sergeant upgrades. This would free up ~ 50 or so points for an Attack Bike perhaps? Techmarine on my Stormraven?

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Looks pretty solid. I stand by my earlier comments about the Razors, but if you really want to stick with them, ok.

 

Deffo go with Divination on the libby. Prescience will be useful both for shooting AND CC.

 

Getting another Attack Bike w/ MM is a good idea in exchange for the vet sarge and the 6th DC. Techmarine, less so.

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1500, BSF Formation, Final Version (for now anyway)

 

Librarian

~ Level 2 (Sanguinary or Diviniation)
~ Galian's Staff

~ Auspex

~ Space Marine Bike

"Fragioso" Dreadnought
~ Frag Cannon
~ Melta Gun
~ Magna Grapple
~ Lucius Drop Pod

Death Company (5)
~ Power Sword (1)
~ Power Fist and Bolter (1)
~ Bolter (1)
~ Razorback
~~ Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

 

Tactical Squad (5)
~ Plasma Gun

~ Melta Bomb, Combi-Plasma gun
~ Razorback
~~ Lascannon and Twin-linked Plasma Gun

 

Scout Squad (5)
~ Shotgun (1)

~ Combi-flamer, Melta Bombs

Bike Squadron (5)
~ Grav Guns (2)

~ Combi-Grav, Melta Bomb

~ Attack Bike

~~ Multi Melta

 

Attack Bike Squadron (1)

~ Multi Melta (1)

Predator Destructor
~ Lascannon Sponsons

~ Overcharged Engines

Stormraven Gunship
~ Twin-linked Multi Melta
~ Twin-linked Assault Cannon

Vindicare Assassin

 

Going with this (mainly because I have to pack the models tonight!). Will have a report up from the week beginning the 5th January. Cheers for the help folks!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Edit: I forgot scout Segeants are BS4. I think the combi-grav would be fine then.

 

I also don't like overcharged engines on sniper Preds. But that's preference. The only Lucifer pattern engine I buy is for a Vindicator, because it's worth it.

 

Otherwise I can't really see anything else to change.

Edited by Dont-Be-Haten
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Edit: I forgot scout Segeants are BS4. I think the combi-grav would be fine then.

 

I also don't like overcharged engines on sniper Preds. But that's preference. The only Lucifer pattern engine I buy is for a Vindicator, because it's worth it.

 

Otherwise I can't really see anything else to change.

 

If I want a sniper tank, I'll play Codex :wink:

 

The theory is that the tank will be advancing with the Razors (Objective-collecting notwithstanding) and I wish to be able to fire as often as I can at the best BS I can. Seriously, if I'm going to be taking lascannon sponsons I don't want to be paying for them to only snap shot. The tank needs to fire at full effect in this list.

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