[HH1.0] Iron Warriors Tactics

[Gorgoff]

Of course they are fun. Nice special rules, nice special units, great colour scheme.

[Brofist]

Hey guys so recently I saw brother Hynedia awsome thread and I was wondering how are Iron warriors rules? I like the idea of a ww1 trench warfare army backed by artillery. Are iron warriors fun? I was thinking a mass infantry army supported by artillery and tanks.

 

I'd dig through the early parts of the thread to get an opinion on where our legion sits. We have some solid units and a few nice perks, but it's pretty niche compared to some of the others out there.

 

If you're looking for fun, then you can't loose :)

[ThatOneMarshal]

So looking through the thread I've gathered that the legion base tactics are well not that great. The morale immunity is nice but the rest is very underwhelming. The grenade part is good if you have a melta bomb and the bitter end is pretty sucky. The special units are where it's at though. Tyrant terminators are downright one of the best in the game and iron havocs provide an awesome amount of firepower. Special characters wise golg is pretty nice if you want terminator troops without the rite of war but otherwise he's a bit meh. The loyalist is pretty cool though expensive. Pertuabo is awesome and is a great force multiplier.

 

The ROW I'm conflicted about. Having extra armor on every vehicle is kinda useless on most things. The fourth heavy support slot is awesome though can be achieved by an ally. The main part I'm conflicted about is the special bolter ability. On one hand it let's iron warriors fire bolters and charge but the problem is that it can wipe a fair amount of guys due to RNG. And then when you get into combat it's only one attack each. Maybe compensate by having a ccw and pistol as well. A great benefit is mechanicum allies which can probably help. Iron warriors are most likely in the middle by my guess. They aren't emperors children bad in my opinion.

 

Is what I said right?

Edited May 14, 2015 by ThatOneMarshal

[Gorgoff]

Yupp, and strongly agree with you.

I've got a couple of games with Iron Warriors under my belt as well and can say, that most of their special rules are pretty useless.

Most of these games were against 40K armies and only 1500 points, which makes a big difference. Well, I've got a good win-lose ratio and can say, that the ordinary choices of our army list did it for me. Not the fancy Siege Terminators, not Perturabo or even the omnipresent Sicaran. Just legionaries, tanks like the trusty Vindicator, Land Speeder and so on.

But I have to admit that two things are a huge asset.

Shrapnel Bolts and their ignorence of casultys in shooting phases. By pinning the units of your opponent you stop him from making points in Maelstrommissions, with is awesome, and don't have to worry about failed LD test is awesome to.

[Hyaenidae]

... that the ordinary choices of our army list did it for me. Not the fancy Siege Terminators, not Perturabo or even the omnipresent Sicaran. Just legionaries, tanks like the trusty Vindicator, Land Speeder and so on.

 

That's our Legion in a nutshell, right there. We're the workhorses, and we deal in death, ours and our enemies. Trust in your bolter and your knife, smash in your foe's skulls with your own helm if you must, always have extra grenades on hand, and stand willing to die horribly without hesitation, knowing your singular death aids the whole.

 

Why spend time and energy on a complex super-vehicle, when the same results can be achieved with a handful of factory-churned Predators, or waves of infantry.

 

On a side note, having wrecker added to your grenades and Meltabombs has been quite helpful to me in the past. Especially in Zone Mortalis games, where you might need to bust bulkhead doors quickly to move on an objective. Shrapnel Bolts are fun in ZM games too, as being able to pin a squad down in a bare corridor with no cover is great news for you.

[Gorgoff]

Yupp, it's fun to play Iron Warriors.

A couple of weeks ago I played against Eldar. Almost every bystander said something like that: "Ouh, you get beat up really hard, eh?"

I won 13:4. ;)

80% casualtys but I won.

Iron Warriors in a nutshell I guess. :D

[SkimaskMohawk]

Lists and points level have a large impact on the result

[Marshal Loss]

Hello my bitter friends!

 

With the impending release of Perturabo, I was wondering if anybody had some advice on how best to use him in an army (around 2500 points). Is he viable in a list not built around Terminators/turn 1 deep striking, or is this the way to get the most out of him?

 

I've tried making a few lists with a mixture of artillery & gunline units alongside Terminators, but am finding it hard to strike a balance.

[The Lord of Iron]

Before I begin this is my first post so if i make any mistakes posting or break any of the rules of this forum it would be appreciated if someone would point it out and correct me for future posts. Thank you 

 

like so much else in our legion Perturabo's rules range from fairly weak to incoherent. He possesses arguably the greatest ability to alpha-strike of any legion or primarch. Turn one reserves is big and when combined with a Damocles Command Rhino for a +1 to reserves and a Land Raider with explorator augury web for re-rolls you almost guarantee all of your reserves will be coming in turn 1 (1 in 36 chance they don't) . natural this works well with large amounts of reserves outflanking, flyers, and especially terminators. And that is to say nothing of why the primarch of the IRON WARRIORS even has such alpha strike capabilities.

 

the rest of his rules tend to be as incongruous with his fluff.

 

Furious charge in the enemy deployment zone. this directly clashes with our Row hail of fire you either get to use one or the other not both. And why would a gun line army be in the enemy deployment zone to begin with?

 

tank hunter and wrecker on his attacks only beyond his bombardment this will rarely if ever come into effect if you are sitting in your deployment zone. his ranged weapon would be lucky to glance most Vehicles and is too short to reach the enemy fortifications.

 

Army wide stubborn. Useful in assault and assault based armies as it mean our troops will almost never take a step back for anything. It is of questionable value in a list where you will want to avoid assault at all cost.

 

His bombardment is strong but is one shot and subject to all the usual problems random number of shots, liable to miss, etc.

 

his armour gives him nothing of note for a shooting heavy army besides a cognis signum. And you're going to want to ignore Forgebreaker if you have no intention of having him in close combat

 

so to sum up if you want to play a gun line style army with Perturabo you're already going to be losing some of his greatest rules. All that he has left is a cognis signum, a bombardment, and army wide stubborn. Essentially making him nothing but a super charged Master of Signal. Our primarch wants to be leading a charge into a breach not sitting back directing the action. 

 

Do i like how he is portrayed? Not really but we have to live with it. for what he gives a gun line army my suggestion would be to adopt the iron warrior mentality and do the math. Are these rules worth 455 points? not really. Personally I would leave leave the primarch at home and turn those points into more boots on the ground and guns in peoples hands. 

[Caillum]

I'm of the opinion that Perturabo is one of the BEST primarchs out there! I think he and the Tyrant Siege Terminators make up for the slightly lacklustre Legion rules. You listed all the reasons above. He isn't snazzy, but that's not what Iron Warriors are about.

 

And Stubborn combined with Wrack & Ruin is brilliant! Remember, in 30k there is no "And They Shall Know No Fear", so Morale is massive...

[The Lord of Iron]

Perturabo isn't bad per say. Hes just not very effective when put into a gun line/castle list, and in turn I don't think he is very fluff. like I said he wants to be leading the charge into a breach.  furious charge, stubborn, turn one reserves, Nuncio-vox, wrecker and tank hunter all rules that benefit an army charging into the enemy guns. 

 

And sure universal stubborn allows our legion to dig in deeper and become harder to shift than any other legion. The problem is that a gun line army is going to want to avoid close combat as much as possible minimizing the benefit gained from stubborn and if you really want it that badly you can take Erasmus Golg and gain pseudo stubborn for less than half the cost of Perturabo.

 

Personally I like Wrack and Ruin combined with stubborn. it makes our legionaries some of the most reliable in the game. And there is something fun and fluff about ending a game having taken upwards of 80% casualties but eradicating the enemy entirely because our troops just don't care. My problem with this however is the same problem i have with every moral rule it doesn't take effect until we start taking models off of the table, we can't force it to take effect, and we can't build a list around it. Our units have to die for it take effect which means points lost.

 

Second every other legion that has a rule that effects moral enhancer also has another legion rule on top of it. Salamanders have Promethean Gift, Word Bears have Cut Them Down. We get slightly more effective Melta-bombs its not even free we have to still buy them as oppose to the other two.

[Marshal Loss]

Thanks for the posts guys. I think he's a great Primarch but I get what TLOI is saying, and it's the problem I'm encoutering - I want to use Perturabo, but it feels like if I'm not taking a bunch of Terminators to alpha strike with him I'm not getting the most out of his rules!

 

Tyrants are going to be in the force, but if there's only one unit of them should they be deep striking with him (possibly alongside another unit of normal Terminators) or are they best shooting on the board from a position of relative safety?

[Slips]

IMO, if you want to run Perturabo to his fullest, run him with Pride of the Legion, and use Tyrants as +/- your only infantry and have the Rest of your list be Fire-Support or maybe just Anti-air.

 

Since a 10 Man Tyrant Squad can pump out 20 Krak Missiles a Turn (and still shoot their combi-bolters too!), They bring A LOT of Dakka to the Table and dropping them into your enemies Face Turn 1 alongside Perturabo means they're going to have a bad time. And if you're up against Blobs? Frag Shells. Templates for Days! And if they get Assaulted? They're still terminators with Power Fists.

 

The following list is just something Silly I slapped together. It can pump out 52 S8 Shots only 12 of which are Ap4, meaning you'll be ignoring FNP and Armor Saves of anything non 2+ and/or T5. You've got an army-wide 48" Threat Bubble, and so long as your Terminators are not in CC, They'll be 2+/3++ due to the Antomantic Pavise. Theres also Army-wide Stubborn so Morale isn't much of an Issue and the Squad Joined by the Siege Breaker gains Tank Hunters on their CML. Not to mention Perturabo can boost the BS of 1 Squad to 5 since his Shooting is only 24". He can also tank a few shots for the army if needed. And, If needed, you could shove all the Terminators and Perturabo into T1 Reserves if you ever needed to before the start of the game. 

 

The Deredeos also still have access to Interceptor/Skyfire but you'd need to plan ahead if they're going to be on the move but it usually means that you're sorted for Anti-Air.

 

Hidden Content

+++ Iron Tyrants (3000pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (3000pts) ++

 

+ HQ (140pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (140pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Chainfist]

··Consul [siege Breaker]

 

+ Troops (1665pts) +

 

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad (555pts) [2x Chainfist, 9x Tyrant Terminator]

 

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad (555pts) [2x Chainfist, 9x Tyrant Terminator]

 

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad (555pts) [2x Chainfist, 9x Tyrant Terminator]

 

+ Heavy Support (705pts) +

 

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (235pts) [Atomantic Pavaise]

 

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (235pts) [Atomantic Pavaise]

 

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought (235pts) [Atomantic Pavaise]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [iV: Iron Warriors]

 

+ Lord of War (490pts) +

 

The Primarch Perturabo (490pts) [After Istvaan]

··Master of the Legion [Pride of the Legion]

 

[Perry]

Here's something I've been wondering.

 

Do Iron Warriors make use of Librarians? I can't find mention of the Legion's use for them. Is it noted somewhere that it's forbidden? Or do people use them in their lists for abit of fun?

[Hesh Kadesh]

Does it say they don't? ;)

[furstyferret]

What are everyone's views on vexillas for our legion's tactical squads? Given that we're immune to taking morale checks from shooting casualties, are they really that necessary or are the points best divered elsewhere?

[FuzzyBunny]

I've never had a use for them.

[Lockark]

I don't think Hammer of Olymipa is that bad. If you run Foot Slogging Tacticals the bonuses make more sense. You are bassicly relying on your 4 heavy support slots, and then using foot sloggers to run interference with anything that might threaten them. The assault after rapid firing isn't about killing the enemy, it's about trying to tie a squad up.

 

Of course a un-fluffy but effective army choice for the iron warriors in the RoW that gives drop pods. Not having to take LD tests from the retaliation fire is a edge they benefit from. Iron Havocs in drop pods make for a interesting choice.

[v6v77]

How do you guys run your havocs. In going up vs a pair of knights this week and want to know if lascannons are overkill with the reroll.

[The Lord of Iron]

   I would normally run my havocs as a ten man missile squad or a five man lascannon squad unless I knew I wasn't going to be facing armor. In your case I would not run havocs at all. whether you are going up against just a pair of knights or an army built around them you'll be taking very vulnerable and very expensive infantry against weapons that can wipe entire havoc squads off the board in a single turn. The first set up ten man missile squad comes out to 360 points (185 base, 125 for 5 additional men, and 50 for 10 missile launchers). The second runs at 260 (185 base, and 75 for five lascannons). Either way you are looking at 36 - 52 points per a single toughness 4 wound with only a 3 up armor save and no ablative wounds. compared to the strength of the average knight range weapons like the:

 

Questoris battlecannon (72" S:6 AP:3 ordnance 3 large blast) 

Rapid-fire battlecannon (72" S:8 AP:3 ordnance 2 large blast)

Lightning cannon (48" S:7 AP:3 heavy large blast shred rending)

Thermal cannon (36" S:9 AP:1 heavy large blast melta)

Castigator bolt cannon (36" S:7 AP:3 heavy 8)

 

   All of which will wound havoc's at least 5/6ths of the time, ignore their armor saves, and hit the majority if not all of a ten man squad. Your havoc'd even loss the advantage of range against first three of these weapons.

 

   The knight's 4 up invulnerable save means its is going to be ignoring half of the wounds it takes from a single side every turn which your havocs being infantry carrying heavy weapons wont be able to maneuver around. And to top it all off your average knight has 6 hull points so if you were hoping to kill it before taking retaliation fire you will need to invest in large squads with expensive weapons. even with ten lascannons (a 460 point squad) you would be extremely unlikely to fell a knight in a single volley, you would hit 2/3rds of shots, 5/9ths of shots will glance or pen (against front armor) and 1/2 of those will be ignored completely leaving just over 2 shots getting through and doing damage killing the knight in 3-4 turns. over all not a great idea to pit havocs against knights as they cost nearly as many points and are a great deal less durable.

Edited August 11, 2015 by The Lord of Iron

[xera32]

Run havocs like any other expensive static unit, in a really good defensive position. The best you can do is get a wall of martyrs imperial bunker. It is AV14, can hold 10 guys, have 8 fire points (two 4 man fire points), can buy a void shield generator, and is cheap at 11 melta bombs. Chuck in 20 points of additional walls to give your building a 4+ cover save, and an ammo dump to reroll 1s to hit with your havocs. All up it comes to 23 melta bombs for an incredibly hard to crack building that makes you deadlier and safer.

[The Lord of Iron]

Run havocs like any other expensive static unit, in a really good defensive position. The best you can do is get a wall of martyrs imperial bunker. It is AV14, can hold 10 guys, have 8 fire points (two 4 man fire points), can buy a void shield generator, and is cheap at 11 melta bombs. Chuck in 20 points of additional walls to give your building a 4+ cover save, and an ammo dump to reroll 1s to hit with your havocs. All up it comes to 23 melta bombs for an incredibly hard to crack building that makes you deadlier and safer.

 

   I like that it makes them durable as you could possibly want. Doesn't exactly solve the problem of outputting the necessary amount of damage need to kill a knight actually making it worse for the want of two additional shots, and if you don't take a whole Wall of Matyrs Defence Network then you will be stuck with only a single havoc squad verse 2 knights which they are not going to kill alone (see above math). It would be interesting to build this list out to its full potential with a full network, several havoc squads and Kyr Vhalen. I'm not sure how Kyr's master of fortifications rule would work with an entire network but it would be interesting never the less. 

 

   On a side not how did you get the 4 up cover on a building? I assume you took barricades from the obstacles list, but i wasn't aware that building could claim a cover save? could you provide me with a reference? its a great idea but it sounds like one of those situations where you have do a bit of rules lawyering.

 

   as for dealing with the knights my advice is land raiders for days particularly the land raider Proteus'. Assuming you have the models or are ok with playing proxies take 3 or 4 at least and give them Armoured Ceramite. in total you will be paying 220 per land raider 660 - 880 not much more than a pair of knights. the knights would be hard pressed to deal with land raiders outside of melee as only one of their weapons will reliably strip hull points and that is the thermal cannon which will only be firing one shot a turn which loses its melta rule. they will not kill the land raiders fast enough to not take return damage. 

 

  To round out the rest of the force take a bare bone praetor with the armored spearhead right of war. Take two tactical squads and make two of the land raiders their dedicated transports to free up heavy support selections. Finally grab a few vindicators with laser destroyer arrays and/or Sicaran Venators and maybe a few rapiers. The idea is to get enough tanks with powerful weapons in the list that you can get around the 4 up invulnerable save and get to a weaker armor value by virtue of numbers of cheap tanks. Any one of these tanks will happily one or two shot a knight's side armor. so send the land raiders up the sides as distractions and fire away.

 

   granted this does not take into account any additional forces your opponent may have or how many points you will be fighting with. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by The Lord of Iron

[Doctor Perils]

How do you guys run your havocs. In going up vs a pair of knights this week and want to know if lascannons are overkill with the reroll.

 

What did you do in the end, and how well did it work ?

[v6v77]

 

 

How do you guys run your havocs. In going up vs a pair of knights this week and want to know if lascannons are overkill with the reroll.

What did you do in the end, and how well did it work ?

I ran with lascannons and they got minced turn 1 after i had the intiative stolen from under me. I ended up conceeding turn 2. Knights are brutalnif you dont have something of your own you can take them on with.

[Brofist]

Knight Titans are a tough match-up for most legion armies- they are good at shooting power armor blobs to bits and will wreck you in melee. You can tailor against 1-2 knights, but if you're against more than that I'm not sure what your options are besides playing mostly aircraft/bringing primarchs.