[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[Flint13]

Not a terrible idea, just understand how huge a fire magnet those two Spartans are going to be at the very beginning of a battle.

 

Your air power isn't going to come in until turn 2 at the earliest, so it gives your opponent's entire army a turn (at minimum) to shoot literally everything at your Spartans. They are hella tough, but occasionally that isn't a winning proposition.

 

Then again, if you hit something like my 2000pt Night Lords terror assault, you're going to have a blast, b/c 3/4s of my shooting and special rules are going to start feeling hella impotent when they won't even scratch an non flare shielded raider :D

 

Keep target priority front in your mind with deployment, and destroy your opponent's anti-tank capabilities as soon as possible. That's pretty basic, but hope it helps!

[LongGone]

Murder-minded murderers murder murderous monsters murdering many men make for good Spartans, Marines, and Chaplains you say? Okay.

Khorne cares not from whence the alliteration flows!!!

[Sheesh Mode]

It is either that or a Praetor and Primaris Medicae leading an eight member Butcher squad in a Spartan, backed up by two Cataphracti terminator squads in Phobos Landraiders. 

 

Perhaps the armored spearhead would be more effective?

[Fangbanger]

Ahhhh.... Perfect! Thanks Flint! Edited March 19, 2015 by Fangbanger

[The Nookie]

SOOOO I'm now starting in full force my World Eaters Traitor force, fielding 60 despoilers, with apothacaries, Khârn, the blood madness, a spartan land raider, red butchers, and finally a fire raptor! Now I have checked into the different possibilities, and I have faced a scary thought...that spartan is going to be a HUGE magnet of attention...

So my question is, is it worth the points? Or will it die before it has a chance of doing anything to make it worth the points?

 

Any thoughts???

 

Also, I've been hearing with the power creep that WE definitely are not one of the stronger tactics, so what is the best way to compensate for the power creep and still play WE?

Edited April 20, 2015 by The Nookie

[depthcharge12]

I've found that the Spartan is worth every point in my games, though I've only played one opponent. The tricky part is the positioning, but having it be a fire magnet is its job. That means your other important bits aren't getting shot.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Conversely, if you play in an adative meta, your opponent takes 6 grav cannons and stops you first turn leaving your red butchers moving first turn and unable to run and stuck in a huge difficult terrain area. It turns your Spartan into a free kill point, neutralises more points than the grav cannons are worth, and is mode of a liability.

 

either take none, or take two.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Conversely, if you play in an adative meta, your opponent takes 6 grav cannons and stops you first turn leaving your red butchers moving first turn and unable to run and stuck in a huge difficult terrain area. It turns your Spartan into a free kill point, neutralises more points than the grav cannons are worth, and is mode of a liability.

 

either take none, or take two.

 

Anyone adjust to counter any build you come up with. Take 2 spartans and I'll bring 12 grav guns. It's not a valid arguement. Who does that unless you are totally min/maxing on foreknowledge?

[The Nookie]

 

Conversely, if you play in an adative meta, your opponent takes 6 grav cannons and stops you first turn leaving your red butchers moving first turn and unable to run and stuck in a huge difficult terrain area. It turns your Spartan into a free kill point, neutralises more points than the grav cannons are worth, and is mode of a liability.

 

either take none, or take two.

 

Anyone adjust to counter any build you come up with. Take 2 spartans and I'll bring 12 grav guns. It's not a valid arguement. Who does that unless you are totally min/maxing on foreknowledge?

 

 

Yeeaaaaaah I have to agree with that, I feel like youre only gonna run into situations like that when everyone you play against all know your list, and/or tailor their list around your list...

[depthcharge12]

 

Conversely, if you play in an adative meta, your opponent takes 6 grav cannons and stops you first turn leaving your red butchers moving first turn and unable to run and stuck in a huge difficult terrain area. It turns your Spartan into a free kill point, neutralises more points than the grav cannons are worth, and is mode of a liability.

either take none, or take two.

 

 

Anyone adjust to counter any build you come up with. Take 2 spartans and I'll bring 12 grav guns. It's not a valid arguement. Who does that unless you are totally min/maxing on foreknowledge?

It's also a false alternative that, sadly, some of us fall into. Anything worth taking is worth spamming.

 

With an 18" range and scattering templates, there's no guarantee of them killing the Spartan either unless all of them hit, which is possible but not probable. Besides, my Spartan would likely be where it would needed to be on the field at the end of my turn one before they can range in on them. If you infiltrate your grav cannons up, I'll laughably assault them turn one with bike units.

 

Hesh does bring up a good issue though, don't make it so that you only have one armored unit on the field. It's always a good plan to overload your enemy's threat factor.

 

Will your enemy shoot at your Spartan? Or will he shoot at your dreads, or Sicaran, or...?

 

If you're worried about grav spam, take a Caestus assault ram so they can't even shoot at it before it drops your Assaultstar down.

[Slips]

 

 

Conversely, if you play in an adative meta, your opponent takes 6 grav cannons and stops you first turn leaving your red butchers moving first turn and unable to run and stuck in a huge difficult terrain area. It turns your Spartan into a free kill point, neutralises more points than the grav cannons are worth, and is mode of a liability.

either take none, or take two.

 

Anyone adjust to counter any build you come up with. Take 2 spartans and I'll bring 12 grav guns. It's not a valid arguement. Who does that unless you are totally min/maxing on foreknowledge?

It's also a false alternative that, sadly, some of us fall into. Anything worth taking is worth spamming.

 

With an 18" range and scattering templates, there's no guarantee of them killing the Spartan either unless all of them hit, which is possible but not probable. Besides, my Spartan would likely be where it would needed to be on the field at the end of my turn one before they can range in on them. If you infiltrate your grav cannons up, I'll laughably assault them turn one with bike units.

 

Hesh does bring up a good issue though, don't make it so that you only have one armored unit on the field. It's always a good plan to overload your enemy's threat factor.

 

Will your enemy shoot at your Spartan? Or will he shoot at your dreads, or Sicaran, or...?

 

If you're worried about grav spam, take a Caestus assault ram so they can't even shoot at it before it drops your Assaultstar down.

 

Thats why the 3k Points Muderface List exists >:-)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Where is this 18" you are talking about? Grav cannons have 36". And Scatter on a 5" template with the size of a spartan? really? Taking 12 Grav Cannons as well is reducing the available options elsewhere. And in this instance it isn't spamming it is ensuring that you are not falling into the eggs in one basket trap.

 

And your 'assaultstar' is now in a unit which is reliant on reserves rolls going in your way, and not being shot down by the anti air abilities, and then not being able to assault until turn 3.

 

As for taking 6 grav cannons; i rarely build a list which isn"t able to cause 5 HP of damage in turn one because

of the presence of spartans; whether it is grav cannon or dual grav legion dreads. the only other unit capable of getting mass grav is the Land Speeder unit; but AV10 2HP is reliant on jink to stay alive. With a blast weapon.

 

And infiltrates strength isn't getting close either. it has a niche ability to do so, such as Infiltrating Nuncios but its true strength is ensuring that have a clear LoS.

 

Really, just take Min Squads with dual Proteus. Flare Shields are wasted to haywire. 5 HP vs 8HP? Sure it costs 540 for the transport compared to the 340-350 for a Spartan plus any unit tax but it makes the units much more flexible (and at point per hull point it works out roughly equal).

 

If you have 2 Spartans, you can influence a Meta in your favour. If you know you are going to face mass grav spam, if you take paired spartans, then capitalize on it.

[Fangbanger]

The proteus however is not an assult vehicle so leaves your assult star sitting out in the open for a turn twiddling it's thumbs and therefore negates the reason for taking the transport in the process. If you are going that route, you are better with the Phobos. That is only saving you 45 points compared to Spartan for extra las, extra hull point and extra capacity. 90 points over all if you are planing on taking 2.

 

If you have a large squad of marines and say a unit of butchers, one of each might be a viable option and save you a few points

 

Just food for thought

[Hesh Kadesh]

Eh, phobos i meant. Editing now, its always harder to put what you mean on phone. if you are taking a Spartan, it is typically Flare Shielded, AC'd and sometimes with the engine upgrade.

[The Nookie]

Now I ask a question that very well might be a stupid question, but has anyone used Angron? Is he actually any good in game? Or does it play out how i'd imagine where he dies before he can do any real harm?

[ThatOneMarshal]

In videos I've seen Angrons with red butcheres in a spartan. Though I don't think either one help each other out all that much. I could see him running with a horde of marines skipping to a nice juicy target to kill.

[Allart01]

I don't usually play a Spartan - too many points, too few chainaxes imho.

But the Dreadclaw, ah, the Dreadclaw. 

A fire-:cussting-rear-vehicle-smashing drop pod is the transport of choice for my World Eaters.

[The Nookie]

How do the dreadclaws work? Like why do you prefer them for transport? 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Second turn assault, can jink (except on the phase it drops down on), Assault transport, deep strike.

 

The damage it deals is kind of hit and miss, but you're dropping one of the three best unit masher models in the game into enemy lines turn 3.

 

Angron has Fleet, but which only triggers when hes on his own as no other model has Fleet. Cataphractii are a decent shield for him, but are slow. Running him without transport is asking for him to get shot to death, which is where his lower Save and wounds value becomes problematic (things like battle cannons and phosphex force him onto his Invuln save where others are fine for days.

 

A spartan is eggs in one basket; which means that it is relatively easy to neutralise; 6 Haywire hits comes in as little as 450pts, and it neutralises a Spartan and contained squad first turn. A dreadclaw, regardless of whether or not it is killed by interceptor or similar still drops a squad deep in enemy lines. A spartan squad still has 20+ inches to travel with plenty of time to kite.

[Flint13]

^^ The problem with the assumption there is that your Spartan is the only target you're giving your opponent.

 

If it's the only thing to shoot at with those hypothetical six haywire shots, then you can't be surprised if someone takes you up on the offer. I imagine it's why every 40k armchair general recommends two Spartans or zero Spartans.

 

I've actually been having a lot of success at 2k points with a single Spartan with a fifteen man tactical squad, two rhinoed up tactical squads, a single Paragon of Metal Castellax and a Typhon, . It creates plenty of target saturation while still being points efficient.

[Hesh Kadesh]

With a Spartan and a Primarch and around 350-400pts of other models, it is probably the only target worth shooting at.

15 Tacticals is 5ish wounds vs MEQ's on the charge. The Typhon in this case is the most dangerous so bites the Haywire first.

The big trap with Spartans is tooling them up, and putting a Deathstar in it. For a 3rd of the points, you can take that big slow tanky unit out of the game in a single phase.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Flint13
keeping it classy

[Flint13]

So for bodyguard for Angron, the tacticals are going to do much better than terminators (for the same points worth of each, at least) longer at keeping Angron alive, in my experience. Especially if you tag on an Apothecary to the squad. 

 

If we're speaking of World Eaters, I think the math may be a little off there. 10 charging World Eaters average 7-ish wounds (assuming Berzerker assault and BP/CCW here), so I'd guess... *doing math*... about 10-11 wounds against power armored targets, which is pretty significant.

 

Spartans are a trap, sure, but only when you leave them as  a blatant target. Assuming you aren't on a flat board, or don't leave them hanging out in the open, this hypothetical haywire squad is going to have a much more difficult time of taking out Angron's transport than the "point, click, remove" that seems to be assumed. Either way, this is all in a vacuum, considering those hypothetical six haywire hits for 450 points is both more expensive than the Spartan it is removing, and not nearly as useful against the squad it (hopefully) left stranded. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by Flint13
keeping it classy

[The Nookie]

Do have to agree, I feel like if you have these theoretical Haywire shots coming at you overtime they can be on the opposing side of the board then you are dealing with people who tailor to a list. In addition I have to say, cover and line of sight, plus the odds of hitting and penetrating have to be taken into account. I don't think its as simple as the hit and its gone thought process. 

 

Also I think it does also make sense to stick Angron in a tactical squad, both for fluff and logical reasoning.

[Fangbanger]

I would also assume butchers can hold their own without Angron!?

[Allart01]

How do the dreadclaws work? Like why do you prefer them for transport? 

 

As Hesh said, basically second turn assault.

It can bring your squad basically everywhere around the table.

Do not underestimate his fire sweep attack either.

1d6 s5 attacks on the lowest armour value (with the possibility to hit multiple targets) can be a bane to any Contemptor or Rhino-based tank, including Predators and Whirlwinds.

A single Dreadclaw destroyed three Contemptors, two Rhinos and Cassian Dracos in my last game.

My opponent was playing on the defensive and kept his stuff quite close, and it was a lucky event, but dat pod won my eternal love.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Kharn the Bloody