Psychic Awakening: What do you want to see?

[DeStinyFiSh]

With the max 8 wounds per phase ability on a Bloodthirster you could hide Syll, Epitome und some Princes behind him for some time. Gunlines without Psy and CC might struggle against that. Edited June 1, 2020 by DeStinyFiSh

[Panzer]

That's actually true and if I weren't a mono god player definitely something I'd do. Then again, with the Realm-Racer ability a Keeper of Secrets should easily be able to get into combat turn 1 on his own unless there's terrain in the way. The main problem is still surviving not going first. :sweat:

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Yeah. I'm mono Khorne myself, and aside from the bloodthirster trait buffs and Skullcannons getting Duty Eternal, we didn't get anything at all to help survive the shooting phase. I don't think I'll be able to start with a BT on the table even still, as without advance and charge he can't relyably make it across the field to start murdering in one turn, and that means if I go second he still has to eat 2 rounds of shooting. Only 9th can say if we'll get some help there.

 

One thing of note is that the playtester video mentioned that tanks and monsters will feel more significant in 9th. I don't know if that is just them hyping the ability to shoot in melee, or if vehicles/monsters as a whole are going to get some sort of general buff for having the tag. That could also contribute if true, though I wouldn't get my hopes up. My money is just on shooting while engaged.

[Cheex]

One thing of note is that the playtester video mentioned that tanks and monsters will feel more significant in 9th. I don't know if that is just them hyping the ability to shoot in melee, or if vehicles/monsters as a whole are going to get some sort of general buff for having the tag. That could also contribute if true, though I wouldn't get my hopes up. My money is just on shooting while engaged.

 

That's the only change previewed so far, yeah. I'm interested to see what else could make them more significant. While I'm only expecting the ability to shoot while in melee, it'd be nice to be able to fall back and charge...

[Raktra]

Is it too much to hope that Monster keyworded models would have their damage spill over in melee..?

[Panzer]

Is it too much to hope that Monster keyworded models would have their damage spill over in melee..?

 

Yeah I think so.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I just need something to boost survivability, either directly or indirectly. I want to be able to start a BT on the field and see him do work. It could happen in any number of ways, but the 2+ and max 8 wounds still isn't quite enough to make them viable. Ideally it'd be a change that doesn't horrifically break shooting monsters while helping melee, so my hopes are on terrain rules.

[Are Verlo]

Crazy wishlisting and perhaps slightly off topic:

It would be nice if all monsters and vehicles with keyword TANK would reduce damage by 1 (min 1). That would stop high rate of fire, dam 2 weapons being the best antitank.

 

But that could create some issues with monster characters with less than 10 wounds.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Are Verlo

[Panzer]

It would also defeat the purpose of those D2 weapons since they aren't supposed to be just Primaris killer. Autocannons for example are supposed to work against small targets as well as big targets and Plasma is the go-to big weapon for infantry and a big weapon doing only 1 damage when already taking the risk of overcharging it is just silly.

[Are Verlo]

After reading PA: Engine war, I must say I am disappointed that the KoS are reduced to 12" move. Part of what made them viable was the 14" move. And in CA19 the KoS have M14". I´ll keep my fingers crossed and hope it gets and errata to restore the KoS to M14"

[Panzer]

After reading PA: Engine war, I must say I am disappointed that the KoS are reduced to 12" move. Part of what made them viable was the 14" move. And in CA19 the KoS have M14". I´ll keep my fingers crossed and hope it gets and errata to restore the KoS to M14"

 

What the actual :cuss ?

[WarriorFish]

Yes, this sounds like a mistake so let's wait and see on the first FAQ hopefully it issues a correction. Not a great showing but there's always errors somewhere, even if it feels a bit off that the KoS is the repeat victim

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Still waiting to be able to buy my coppy. I'm curious to go through it with a fine toothed comb to see if anything else like the above Keeper movement was missed

.

[Hathor42]

Slothful claws with work with the epitome now as the tentacles are just extra attacks.

[Cheex]

Bloodcrushers' Bladed Horns are now S:User rather than S5, so they are affected by Strength buffs.

 

Edit: never mind, Battlescribe lied to me. This was the case in CA19 as well.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Cheex

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

The bloodcrusher change was part of CA 2019, and is a needed buff.

 

Also, I'm starting to wonder if the Keeper movement is supposed to be 12. If you take it as wrote, then Hellbane having +2 movement and a 6 heroic basically is the same as having 2 greater daemon traits, as well as the better weapons. I'm not saying that's the case, but it opens up the possibility that the buffs for named Greaters will just be in built trait mechanics, like Skarbrand getting no more than 8 wounds and +1 S/A on a charge. Not sure.

[Are Verlo]

The whole Slaanesh situation is a mess in PA.

What about warlord traits? Are they omittet by intent or mistake?

Right now both Syll’Eske and Shalxi Are bound to spesific warlord traits, but you need CA19 to have the official rules stating that.

 

That is not a big deal to me, as I have CA19.

But if I bought Engine war assuming it had all the rules for Syll,Eske..

Edited June 7, 2020 by Are Verlo

[WarriorFish]

Seems a bit of a mess indeed, disappointing to hear :confused:

[Khornestar]

Goon hammer rules review:

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/psychic-awakening-engine-war-review-part-4-chaos-daemons/

[MasterDeath]

I for my part am dissappointed. I do not own a Greater Daemon, nor do I intend to get one. In the whole book only one page is of kinda interest to me (Stratagems) and we do not even get the free bonus like subfactions all the other get. If this is intended to make Daemons 9ed suitable, we are indeed in a very good shape it seems. 

[The Neverborn]

My two cents

 

Disclaimer, I take the rules as is in there current environment as I think it is too early to confidently review how the book will effect an addition thats not out yet.

 

Grade is E

 

The underlying problem(s) have not been addressed. Underused units will still go underused as they don't generate command points. This dilutes the use of new stratgems. The issue of 'delivery' has gone unaddressed throughout the whole update. It is likely that the status quo will now remain.

 

Trust me if you want to save a buck you won't need this book, daemons are now in the 'wait for the new codex and/or rules addition' from being anything other than exactly where they are.

 

People do get hyped easily so I know why there is so much optimism now. But that's going to change soon after the optimists get their books.

[Khornestar]

...

The underlying problem(s) have not been addressed. Underused units will still go underused as they don't generate command points. This dilutes the use of new stratgems. The issue of 'delivery' has gone unaddressed throughout the whole update. It is likely that the status quo will now remain.

 

...

 

I think you've nailed it. Adding on additional command point costs for an army that already uses them up like crazy to address design shortcomings just doesn't improve the situation much at all. Definitely waiting for 9th before buying anything, at this point.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I will admit that I've been looking at this book through the lens of 9th, with flat CP generation for all armies that will let me field Bloodletter blobs and Hounds a lot more efficiently. In the current meta all this did was let us spend 1 CP to give a rage thirster +2 to charge, which is a solid buff, but doesn't fix all the hoops we have to jump through to get there, I agree.

 

Then again, mortal wounds on the charge for 1 CP and Hound advance and charge for 1 CP aren't bad strats. Khorne players just spend so much CP deepstriking and buffing Daemon Princes that I can't see us having a lot leftover for it. Dunno. I'll still be using them where I can on the lead up to 9th.

[Cheex]

People do get hyped easily so I know why there is so much optimism now. But that's going to change soon after the optimists get their books.

 

Optimist here. Got the book, already played a game using a Khorne Brigade. It was against a fluffy Black Legion player (lots of CSM), so in no way a good gauge for the strength of the list, but I think it'd perform reasonably well against all the other armies I've played at my club recently.

 

If you're looking for your next tournament list, you probably should skip this book until at least 9th. In the meantime, I'll be over here having fun.

[The Neverborn]

 

If you're looking for your next tournament list, you probably should skip this book until at least 9th. In the meantime, I'll be over here having fun.

 

 

I think that's a bit unfair.

 

Allow me to elaborate.

 

You and I or anyone else can probably have fun with or without the current codex. I'm not a tournament player and I never will be.  The issue i have with the update is as I stated. 

 

The underlying problem(s) have not been addressed. 

 

 what this means is 

 

 

It is likely that the status quo will now remain.

 

The physic awakening books are an opportunity to address the issues within a current book. And I don't mean that the book needs to be "top tier". But the current state of affairs is even in casual games a lot of units that i've spent my hard earned money on, spent hundred of hours painting; will be, if deployed, removed on the 1st or 2nd turn before they get to do anything. :- That is not fun.  

 

And there's just no way around it, a "get gud" response which may seem helpful just leads into the idea of min/maxed tournament play which you are evidently against.  

 

While it did add "cool tools" this has already been addressed (below) so we likely won't even get to use them, at least frequently - again not fun.

 

 

 

...

The underlying problem(s) have not been addressed. Underused units will still go underused as they don't generate command points. This dilutes the use of new stratgems. The issue of 'delivery' has gone unaddressed throughout the whole update. It is likely that the status quo will now remain.

 

...

 

I think you've nailed it. Adding on additional command point costs for an army that already uses them up like crazy to address design shortcomings just doesn't improve the situation much at all. Definitely waiting for 9th before buying anything, at this point.

 

 

As such i'd rather spend my 20 bucks or whatever or something else (possible from GW) that will have a better "fun return".

Edited June 10, 2020 by Battle Brother Abderus