How might Squats return to the setting?

[phandaal]

Squats going Tau would just be insulting. It did not work when GW tried claiming Demiurg were Squats, and it would not work now.

[Noserenda]

Ech, it would be a lot healthier for the game if they werent yet another Imperium faction, and of the Xenos coalitions they wouldnt fit with Necrons or Orks at all and Eldar and Tyranids are doing alright, which just leaves Tau. Theyd also bring something to Tau gameplay wise whilst the Imperium is chocka with... everything these days.

Well... I could see a Necron alliances actually, but it would be a BIG shift :D 

[Bulwyf]

I want Squats to be the first allied xenos race with the Imperium with their own codex, gods, etc. I hated their old fluff about being abhumans like Ogrons and ratlings. Nuts to that. Squats should be their own thing not crammed into the Guard or some other existing xenos codex.

[Jings]

TAU SQUATS GO 

 

Deals with the dumb demiurg retcon stuff, we get another non-imperial army, and it starts expanding the auxilliaries which are the coolest and most ignore part about the Tau. 

[phandaal]

Space Dwarves do not serve any xenos faction. Squats are Space Dwarves, and as such they should be an independent faction. Bottom line.

 

Suggesting Squats should be Tau auxiliaries or some other kind of xenos sub-faction nonsense means you do not actually want Squats.

 

Please leave your beard at the door on your way out, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Jings]

Space Dwarves do not serve any xenos faction. Squats are Space Dwarves, and as such they should be an independent faction. Bottom line.

 

Suggesting Squats should be Tau auxiliaries or some other kind of xenos sub-faction nonsense means you do not actually want Squats.

 

Please leave your beard at the door on your way out, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

Dwarfs hold grudges. If the Squat strongholds were attacked by nids, didn't get help from the Imperium because abhumans, and then were assisted by benevolent xenos, wouldn't that be a good enough? They wouldn't be allied with the Tau because they're xenos lovers - they'd be doing it to spite the Imperium and that rocks. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Space Dwarves do not serve any xenos faction. Squats are Space Dwarves, and as such they should be an independent faction. Bottom line.

 

Suggesting Squats should be Tau auxiliaries or some other kind of xenos sub-faction nonsense means you do not actually want Squats.

 

Please leave your beard at the door on your way out, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Dwarfs hold grudges. If the Squat strongholds were attacked by nids, didn't get help from the Imperium because abhumans, and then were assisted by benevolent xenos, wouldn't that be a good enough? They wouldn't be allied with the Tau because they're xenos lovers - they'd be doing it to spite the Imperium and that rocks.

is the tau empire any where near the squat empire?

[Slave to Darkness]

When did the Nid's eating the Squats fit into the timeline? Was the Tau doing Tau stuff then or was that before the Tau became a player on the galactic stage? 

[phandaal]

Dwarfs hold grudges. If the Squat strongholds were attacked by nids, didn't get help from the Imperium because abhumans, and then were assisted by benevolent xenos, wouldn't that be a good enough? They wouldn't be allied with the Tau because they're xenos lovers - they'd be doing it to spite the Imperium and that rocks.

No, it is not a good enough reason, because the end result is still desecration. Squats joining the Tau Empire does not "rock." It is just disrespectful to what people have been requesting for decades.

 

is the tau empire any where near the squat empire?

It is not. The Tau Empire is to the galactic north of Ultramar, and the Squat Empire is near Terra to the galactic east. 

 

When did the Nid's eating the Squats fit into the timeline? Was the Tau doing Tau stuff then or was that before the Tau became a player on the galactic stage?

Squats/Tyranids timing is around the time of the Damocles Crusade, so the Tau were not anywhere close to the Squat Empire at that time.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

When did the Nid's eating the Squats fit into the timeline? Was the Tau doing Tau stuff then or was that before the Tau became a player on the galactic stage?

Squats/Tyranids timing is around the time of the Damocles Crusade, so the Tau were not anywhere close to the Squat Empire at that time.

 

:tu: nice one, my knowledge of Tau lore has big gaps in it, hardly surprising as I have only read the first ever Tau dex and never finished that, was so boring. 

[Noserenda]

The made up space empires on the made up space map not sharing a border is a fully trivial problem to solve though. Especially as squats predate any serious commitment to vaguely consistent maps :D 

If you are launching a new range you are looking at a handful of kits and that is always going to work better if it can be run as an allied army and expanded later. Squats are fairly obviously redundant as an Imperium army but an interesting Tau ally. It also gives you one less thread of convoluted buy in to any campaigns and stuff down the line. Still their own Codex, just with some existing links.

And as the owner of a squat army i played with in 1st and 2nd and general dwarf fan, to try and claim your opinion is somehow better or representative of all "true fans" says a lot more about you than however they align them.

[Slave to Darkness]

You aint a true Squat unless you have a beard!!!! 

 

Tbh I dont wan them to be 'Imperium' or 'Xenos/Tau', I want them to be 'Squats'. Their own thing who can ally with the Imperium or Tau depending on what suits them at the time. As long as they keep their hatred for Greenskins and they still use Trikes and Thud Guns then Ill bite. If they change the bike/artillery thing it still wont bother me too much, my current stuntie army was built to play 1st edition 40k and was never intended for the modern game, so I can still collect new units without it affecting what I already have. 

 

I WILL be pissed if they drop the trikes though. 

[phandaal]

 

And as the owner of a squat army i played with in 1st and 2nd and general dwarf fan, to try and claim your opinion is somehow better or representative of all "true fans" says a lot more about you than however they align them.

 

Being passionate about certain things is what defines fans. A fellow lifelong Dwarf enthusiast should know that Dwarves are not a servant race, and joining the Tau empire would be a subversion of what Dwarves are all about.

 

In any case, if you want to have the correct opinion you can always agree with me. I do not mind having company.

[Slave to Darkness]

Slightly off topic but if you want a passionate fan check out that trainspotter dude on youtube, I wish I felt that passionate about anything these days. :lol: Damn thats wholesome stuff. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The made up space empires on the made up space map not sharing a border is a fully trivial problem to solve though. Especially as squats predate any serious commitment to vaguely consistent maps :D

 

If you are launching a new range you are looking at a handful of kits and that is always going to work better if it can be run as an allied army and expanded later. Squats are fairly obviously redundant as an Imperium army but an interesting Tau ally. It also gives you one less thread of convoluted buy in to any campaigns and stuff down the line. Still their own Codex, just with some existing links.

 

And as the owner of a squat army i played with in 1st and 2nd and general dwarf fan, to try and claim your opinion is somehow better or representative of all "true fans" says a lot more about you than however they align them.

in sorry but if you think something needs to go through major changes then then you’re not a fan of it…squats being Allie’s with tau or any other xenos is a massive change…

[Noserenda]

 

The made up space empires on the made up space map not sharing a border is a fully trivial problem to solve though. Especially as squats predate any serious commitment to vaguely consistent maps

 

If you are launching a new range you are looking at a handful of kits and that is always going to work better if it can be run as an allied army and expanded later. Squats are fairly obviously redundant as an Imperium army but an interesting Tau ally. It also gives you one less thread of convoluted buy in to any campaigns and stuff down the line. Still their own Codex, just with some existing links.

 

And as the owner of a squat army i played with in 1st and 2nd and general dwarf fan, to try and claim your opinion is somehow better or representative of all "true fans" says a lot more about you than however they align them.

in sorry but if you think something needs to go through major changes then then you’re not a fan of it…squats being Allie’s with tau or any other xenos is a massive change…

 

No it isnt? 

[Noserenda]

I think what people are missing is that the original Squat range (in 40k) failed primarily because the designers werent inspired enough to add to it and in a pre internet age fan complaints were much less organised and easier to miss. A lot of that was due to them being too similar to Imperial guard in game and in the intervening years a bunch of other armies have moved into that design space and set up shop, mostly Imperial ones (like... all of them bar Talons?) but obviously Genestealer cults too. 

Now thats a problem obviously, in fact i think the design team thinks a lot more about redundancy than their peers did in the 90's so we are only going to get something hitting the same notes rather than an exact copy and shifting outside of the Imperial umbrella is pretty likely too because thats a redundancy mine right now but having a strong ally is going to boost the all important sales to keep things moving. 

Being a Tau ally means potentially no changes, I mean look at the kroot. If a client/allied species is big and independent enough the Tau are plenty happy with lip service to the Greater good and minimal interference. Id actually argue that the Greater good already gels with general "Squattish" attitudes just fine anyway.
 

[m0nolith]

I still think the most likely scenario for them to return is as a gang in Necromunda given that squats are already back there. 

[phandaal]

I still think the most likely scenario for them to return is as a gang in Necromunda given that squats are already back there. 

 

Would make sense to do a soft launch with Necromunda or Kill Team. Less risk than designing and manufacturing a 40k faction without knowing if people will buy it or not.

[phandaal]

Being a Tau ally means potentially no changes, I mean look at the kroot. If a client/allied species is big and independent enough the Tau are plenty happy with lip service to the Greater good and minimal interference. Id actually argue that the Greater good already gels with general "Squattish" attitudes just fine anyway.

 

 

Joining the Tau Empire period is the problem though, and yes it would be a massive divergence from the concept of Dwarves.

 

Hopefully once Tau are no longer FOTM we can move past this. Might as well talk about Tervigons giving birth to a new Squat race after the Tyranids ate them... that makes about as much sense.

 

We should be talking about how Squats have been building their colonies closer to the galactic core, and now that the Cicatrix Maledictum has opened they have been forced to venture out into the wider galaxy. They improved their exo suit technology to deal with the increased radiation, found some new STC fragments, are pushing the bounds of AI to create sci-fi "stone golems" etc. Interesting stuff like that.

[Felix Antipodes]

It is quite easy to reconcile both arguments in my mind.  The Squats aren’t joiners - then why were they fighting alongside the Imperium in the past?  

 

Are they abhumans or xenos - both/neither/something else?  

 

“You Imperials call us abhumans and squats.  The T’au call us Demiurg.  We know our name and what we are and take insult with you both”.  “We ally with both as suits our needs and allows us to kills the most greenskins”

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

It is quite easy to reconcile both arguments in my mind. The Squats aren’t joiners - then why were they fighting alongside the Imperium in the past?

 

Are they abhumans or xenos - both/neither/something else?

 

“You Imperials call us abhumans and squats. The T’au call us Demiurg. We know our name and what we are and take insult with you both”. “We ally with both as suits our needs and allows us to kills the most greenskins”

except there’s not really any reasonable explanation for his squats came into contact with the tau…

[Felix Antipodes]

When you are getting out of the way of a Tyranid fleet you probably disperse over a wide portion of the galaxy.  The warp can be fickle where it lets you exit 

[Antarius]

When you are getting out of the way of a Tyranid fleet you probably disperse over a wide portion of the galaxy.  The warp can be fickle where it lets you exit 

Yeah. Also, fiction is pretty malleable, so it’s not like they couldn’t come up with tons of reasonable explanations, should they wish to introduce two different factions to each other. Arguably, the entire setting is a giant excuse to let everybody meet (and fight) everybody else.

[phandaal]

We could certainly come up with a JJ Abrams-esque "this event happens so that the story can end up here" reasoning for it, but that just shows how bad the idea is.

 

Squats would not need to disperse over the entire galaxy in order to avoid Tyranids moving in one direction. You could say they did in order to make them meet the Tau and become another client race, but it is pretty obvious that the reasoning is inorganic.

 

When you drop the focus on coming up with an excuse for bad ideas, you can start thinking about more more plausible story turns instead.

 

Example:

 

The worlds consumed by Tyranids were on the fringe of the empire. Squats retreated further into their more heavily-defended territories once those worlds were consumed and fought back any splinter fleets that branched off from the main Tyranid advance. They had to devote all the resources of their empire to survival and were not able to communicate or trade. Maybe they tried communicating but the Shadow in the Warp made it impossible (but they did not know this and assumed their calls for aid were ignored).

 

They have been rebuilding and retrenching since then, and some event within their empire has caused them to move out into the galaxy again. Maybe it is the Cicatrix Maledictum, maybe they are motivated by a grudge against the allies who did not help defend their colonies, maybe experiments with warp-based "rune" technology went wrong and now they are fleeing from something they created.

 

Cicatrix Maledictum would fit in with the current state of the Galaxy and open up the possibility of Chaos Squats who were separated from the Squat Empire and turned to Chaos in order to survive (analogous to Chaos Dwarves in WFB).

 

And so on.

Edited March 9, 2022 by phandaal