Guard has lost its appeal

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I’m still excited to see the new heavy tank that’s been leaked, but over all guard has lost its appeal for me.

 

I hate the scion models, and while the taurox prime has grown on me that’s about the only truly new unit guard seems to have gotten in 20 years…other new units over the last 20 years just seem to be variations of older units with new weapon load outs…

 

Anyway I hope when the new codex comes out I hope they do something to make the army seem new and fresh.

[The Pounder]

I can fully understand your frustration.

 

It’s been years since Guard had any serious attention.

 

If you’re fed up with the model range (and not the game) I’d suggest playing a different faction for a while.

 

I usually have 2 or 3 projects going at a time, I find it keeps things fresh.

 

I think we’re all waiting on a new shiny codex we can all get behind!

 

Hopefully it won’t be too long in coming and will breathe some life back into the faction.

 

Hope you find your mojo again.

[librisrouge]

So a couple of thoughts:

1. I agree with your general feelings. The IG line has gotten a bit stale. The scions were uninspired and generic when they came out and I've never been a huge fan. It is why I use Solar Auxilia as my stormtroopers. Same with the taurox, which hasn't grown on me even a little.
2. Add to that, the codex is really, really showing its age. This edition isn't nice to IG. Mass numbers and vehicles are not strong this edition which seems to be increasingly favoring elite forces and character heavy builds. It always feels like IG is never tough enough, can't field the numbers to compensate for that, and doesn't have the punch to matter anyway. I don't need my army to feel top tier but it is nice when I don't feel handicapped.
3. Despite that, I love IG. I get around a bit of this by looking for alternative models. Others companies and designers have really picked up the slack for GW on the IG front. It is impossibly easy to find alternative IG models and I highly recommend you look around the internet for inspiration. 

That being said, I feel like a lead got buried here:

• There is a leaked IG tank!?!?! Link please.

[OldWherewolf]

I get where you're at.  This edition is getting more and more frustrating for guard

 

I am really enjoying Crusade with my AM.  The smaller games means more of our units are viable, so we not just stuck with the same meta army as competitive 2K games.  The free multi-melta on my hellhounds is always an eye opener for my opponents at ~1k.  Plus, since overall army sizes are smaller, there's just not quite the same output into infantry, so infantry live a little longer, and with the free special & heavy weapons, I actually shoot them. 

 

But at the same time, look into other armies that have been updated.  That can also be quite refreshing (I'm buying my buddy's Eldar off him) so I can play at higher points levels again.

[Diagramdude]

If they release Marines 2.0 codex before guard get a first codex, two years into the edition, i’m out.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I can fully understand your frustration.It’s been years since Guard had any serious attention.If you’re fed up with the model range (and not the game) I’d suggest playing a different faction for a while.I usually have 2 or 3 projects going at a time, I find it keeps things fresh.I think we’re all waiting on a new shiny codex we can all get behind! Hopefully it won’t be too long in coming and will breathe some life back into the faction.Hope you find your mojo again.

I’ve been focusing on my marines for the last year now.

<p>So a couple of thoughts:

• I agree with your general feelings. The IG line has gotten a bit stale. The scions were uninspired and generic when they came out and I've never been a huge fan. It is why I use Solar Auxilia as my stormtroopers. Same with the taurox, which hasn't grown on me even a little.
• Add to that, the codex is really, really showing its age. This edition isn't nice to IG. Mass numbers and vehicles are not strong this edition which seems to be increasingly favoring elite forces and character heavy builds. It always feels like IG is never tough enough, can't field the numbers to compensate for that, and doesn't have the punch to matter anyway. I don't need my army to feel top tier but it is nice when I don't feel handicapped.
• Despite that, I love IG. I get around a bit of this by looking for alternative models. Others companies and designers have really picked up the slack for GW on the IG front. It is impossibly easy to find alternative IG models and I highly recommend you look around the internet for inspiration.

That being said, I feel like a lead got buried here:

• There is a leaked IG tank!?!?! Link please.

tbh it’s just the prime that’s grown on me. I use it like the light tank I’ve been hoping for Edited February 1, 2022 by duz_
Merged double posts

[duz_]

<p>

That being said, I feel like a lead got buried here:

• There is a leaked IG tank!?!?! Link please.

Indeed where is this leak for those unaware?

[sairence]

There's been nothing concrete. One of the rumour dumps talked about a new heavy tank between Russ and Baneblade. But that's all there is so far.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I get where you're at. This edition is getting more and more frustrating for guard

 

I am really enjoying Crusade with my AM. The smaller games means more of our units are viable, so we not just stuck with the same meta army as competitive 2K games. The free multi-melta on my hellhounds is always an eye opener for my opponents at ~1k. Plus, since overall army sizes are smaller, there's just not quite the same output into infantry, so infantry live a little longer, and with the free special & heavy weapons, I actually shoot them.

 

But at the same time, look into other armies that have been updated. That can also be quite refreshing (I'm buying my buddy's Eldar off him) so I can play at higher points levels again.

honestly I don’t even know what they’d need to do with the faction to regain my attention, but I know there’s a lot of datasheets that don’t add anything to the faction in my opinion, and the near total stagnation of the models and completely non-creative additions that are just slightly different from what they already have…just bleh.

 

That and a continued focus on a visually bland regiment as poster boys, there’s just so little about the faction that has any level of appeal now

[casb1965]

<p>

 

So a couple of thoughts:

• I agree with your general feelings. The IG line has gotten a bit stale. The scions were uninspired and generic when they came out and I've never been a huge fan. It is why I use Solar Auxilia as my stormtroopers. Same with the taurox, which hasn't grown on me even a little.
• Add to that, the codex is really, really showing its age. This edition isn't nice to IG. Mass numbers and vehicles are not strong this edition which seems to be increasingly favoring elite forces and character heavy builds. It always feels like IG is never tough enough, can't field the numbers to compensate for that, and doesn't have the punch to matter anyway. I don't need my army to feel top tier but it is nice when I don't feel handicapped.
• Despite that, I love IG. I get around a bit of this by looking for alternative models. Others companies and designers have really picked up the slack for GW on the IG front. It is impossibly easy to find alternative IG models and I highly recommend you look around the internet for inspiration.

That being said, I feel like a lead got buried here:

• There is a leaked IG tank!?!?! Link please.

That's exactly what I think.

1. I have metal Kasrkin for my infantry.

2. My elites are going to be 3 units of 10 Crusaders accompanied by a preacher and Astropath. 4++,extra attack and - 1 to hit thank you

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On second thought I’d like to see some jump infantry for guard.

We’re currently 20-50 years away from jump/jet packs being viable for military and LE applications so it should definitely be something the guard could have.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[jarms48]

 

So a couple of thoughts:

1. I agree with your general feelings. The IG line has gotten a bit stale. The scions were uninspired and generic when they came out and I've never been a huge fan. It is why I use Solar Auxilia as my stormtroopers. Same with the taurox, which hasn't grown on me even a little.
2. Add to that, the codex is really, really showing its age. This edition isn't nice to IG. Mass numbers and vehicles are not strong this edition which seems to be increasingly favoring elite forces and character heavy builds. It always feels like IG is never tough enough, can't field the numbers to compensate for that, and doesn't have the punch to matter anyway. I don't need my army to feel top tier but it is nice when I don't feel handicapped.
3. Despite that, I love IG. I get around a bit of this by looking for alternative models. Others companies and designers have really picked up the slack for GW on the IG front. It is impossibly easy to find alternative IG models and I highly recommend you look around the internet for inspiration. 

That being said, I feel like a lead got buried here:

• There is a leaked IG tank!?!?! Link please.

 

 

I think he meant rumoured. Not leaked. 

 

As for everything else, I completely agree with you. I use the old metal Stormtroopers instead of Scions, and for most of 9th edition I've shelved my regular Imperial Guard army. I've been having a decent amount of success with mono-Scions. It's just sad that regular Guard has been bottom of the barrel for the majority of this edition. 

[Emperor Ming]

We could have been given some love with the latest CA, points drops across the board would have done to keep guard players going. But what did we get...what a joke

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if marine dex 2.0 is before guard and guard will then be last codex of this ed probs

 

Whats more important to gw, selling more marines dexs or guard codex

 

Ive had enough atm, moving onto other armies

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

So a couple of thoughts:

• I agree with your general feelings. The IG line has gotten a bit stale. The scions were uninspired and generic when they came out and I've never been a huge fan. It is why I use Solar Auxilia as my stormtroopers. Same with the taurox, which hasn't grown on me even a little.
• Add to that, the codex is really, really showing its age. This edition isn't nice to IG. Mass numbers and vehicles are not strong this edition which seems to be increasingly favoring elite forces and character heavy builds. It always feels like IG is never tough enough, can't field the numbers to compensate for that, and doesn't have the punch to matter anyway. I don't need my army to feel top tier but it is nice when I don't feel handicapped.
• Despite that, I love IG. I get around a bit of this by looking for alternative models. Others companies and designers have really picked up the slack for GW on the IG front. It is impossibly easy to find alternative IG models and I highly recommend you look around the internet for inspiration.

That being said, I feel like a lead got buried here:

• There is a leaked IG tank!?!?! Link please.

I think he meant rumoured. Not leaked.

 

As for everything else, I completely agree with you. I use the old metal Stormtroopers instead of Scions, and for most of 9th edition I've shelved my regular Imperial Guard army. I've been having a decent amount of success with mono-Scions. It's just sad that regular Guard has been bottom of the barrel for the majority of this edition.

yep I only have one squad of Kasrkin, and don’t really want to deal with the hassle of finding used Kasrkin and buying them up.

 

The plastic Kasrkin rumor and the new heavy tank rumored are the last 2 hopes to keep any interest in the faction.

[Diagramdude]

Also running mixed regiments, such as Cadia plus Gunners/Spotters was one of the only ways to run competitive pure guard and they killed it because other factions were overdoing it. And having two regiments working together fit perfectly with the lore.

[Shamansky]

I said it before. And i'll say it again. Hope is the way to heresy. I don't like where whole this edition is going. But I love the Guard. I used to play the army while it was interesting. Current state of the game leaves not many alternatives (2xTC with DC, FP Manticores, bullgrins and infantry tax in every roster) that can at least do something other than just bring victry points to the enemy. While Ordo Temestus is still interesting to think over and has some funny tactics. Got myself enough non-metal Kasrkin models for testing mini-conversions. So that's what technically keeps me a Guard player. Modeling and theory-roster-building.

I'm currently selling my Black Templars. So the Guard and CSM that are interesting for conversions is what keeps me in hobby at all.

 

Looking at Tau codex leaks (the army that really needed to be fixed), all why i'm waiting for the new Guard codex is to see how bad geedubs are at playing their own game.

[commissar_roach]

I was honestly in the same boat as you for a while. a lot of the range has grown stale and none of the new units that came out since the big 5th edition refresh have really grabbed me. I was never big into the competitive scene so the older dex never really hurt me that much, but even non-competitive games are starting to see the guard losing ground with all the changes new dex's are bringing to the table.

What helped me was 1. buying models from other companies, there are so many brands that make amazing guard proxies. Most of these are even cheaper to collect then GW or at worst about on par in pricing. and 2. I've really just stopped playing 9th edition. If I play 40k then it's normally 8th edition at this point, but most of the time i just play One Page Rules Grimdark Future. OPR's game really is a breath of fresh air and I've been really loving the games I've been playing with it.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I think another part of it is the focus on semi-realistic looking units for the most part.

Tallarn is Lawrence of Arabia-Raquel

Catachan is 80s action hero

Cadia is just generic body armored soldier

Iron guard is just modern dress uniforms

Krieg and steel legion just generic WWI.

Voystroyan is a nice steam punk/sci-fi Russian thing, but not something I’d want for myself unfortunately.

 

And then the vehicles are all very generic and don’t mesh with any regiment other than Cadian imho unless you go to forgeworld, and even then I don’t think they mesh too well with non-Cadian regiments.

 

To spice my army up I had to use necromunda models, and some Victoria minis heavy weapons.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[WarriorFish]

Small consolation it may be but Guard aren't alone in this situation (apparently I like armies GW doesn't..?) for such things you've got to stick them out or wait them out. I would recommend the latter for you as Guard struggle currently so it's probably best to get stuck in when that changes. I think GW made a big misstep with the "new" Cadian box (as much as I don't need new troops), but the plastic Krieg release does offer some hope on the model front.

 

I have long thought GW haven't known what to do with Guard, and it seems that GW itself may be in agreement given how little is happening. GW does seem to be making big changes to codices in 9th though so perhaps when Guard finally get their moment we might see something significant change. Until then as with others I am busying myself with other projects as this is always a good way to keep things fresh

[Emperor Ming]

Nothing for guard in the balance dataslate or FAQ updates

[jarms48]

Nothing for guard in the balance dataslate or FAQ updates:(

Yep. I couldn’t have been more disappointed with this Balance Dataslate. Literally the only change was the DE nerfs. Like, when they said they were going to try and balance the game every 3 months I expected more.

[sairence]

On the other hand...too many massive changes to quickly are also bad.

 

And while there was nothing new for us, it's still pretty substantial for the compeitive scene which this is aimed at. DE thicc city is effectively dead, meaning another not particularly interactive playstyle is curtailed. You'll probably still see Talos and Grotesques, but probably not spammed as the core of an army anymore.

 

Guard isn't super-relevant for the competitive scene, because we have an old codex. We got a few good things in the first one, but I don't think these updates are intended to regularly tweak outdated armies, but rather to avoid the worst excesses of skewed playstyles.

Edited February 4, 2022 by sairence

[Diagramdude]

By the time they stop procrastinating and throw us a codex there will be a new edition within six months and the cycle starts again.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The current topic about the leman Russ got me thinking…

With the rumored new heavy-heavy tank, maybe a shake up of the army is needed.

For example we have what? Half a dozen leman Russ variants? And most just don’t work at all for their points, maybe a lore change and some awesome new rules for the new tank push the LR to the back, begins to take the place of the guard’s primary MBT role.

 

I generally think a shake up is needed to regain my interest, just not a primaris level shake up

[Lord_Ikka]

I'm not a Guard player, though I do have an Inquisition Stormtrooper force that uses Scion rules because that's the only way I can make the Inquisition work, so my view is slightly skewed. 

 

Like librisrogue, I use Solar Auxlia models for my Scions. In my case, it's not because I inherently dislike the current Scion models, but rather I love the Auxilia sculpts. The current Scion models are alright, but not to my taste- the armor for me seems more like Knightly House-aligned feudal troops (though the helmets are some of the best GW makes). I would much prefer the old Kasrkin-style models for Scions, and the rumor engine stuff seems like it might happen, which would be nice. I do like the Taurox Primes, but it took building and playing 4 of them for me to get used to them aesthetically (game-play they rock, love the light tank that pumps out a ton of anti-infantry firepower) mainly due to the weird little track units they have. 

 

As for IG overall, it needs a refresh in both rules and model line. Cadian and Catachan sculpts are now decades old, as are most of the vehicles, and while they are still serviceable they need some love. I would personally remove the Catachan boxes, they've run their course and I don't think 80s action-star jungle fighters are going to be a great seller in the future. Give the army something unique and "grim-darky" that will be a refreshing change from just basic body-armor Cadians. Whether that is something like a Steel Legion/DKoK-style gasmask army or something entirely new, doesn't matter. Just do something that looks fun and interesting without be over-the-top cartoony.