Where are they and who looks after them?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnUGGUj2U

Was looking at the starfang’s weapons profile, and realized I feel like the stat line kind of fits eldar in general perfectly 

(d)3 shots S6 AP-3 2D seems to fit eldar really well. Fast(shooting) finesse weapon. s6 tells me it’s not a brute strength gun, but AP-3 tells me its tech level is high, while 2 damage shows it’s fairly hard hitting overall.

for guard I feel like it’s a combo of weapons that are technically upgrades. The heavy stubber and HKM together epitomize what the guard is.

stubber’s high ROF, low S no AP and low damage  just seems to fit the infantry perfectly, and the HKM’s high S, AP, and damage potential represents the guard’s armor very well.

what else do yall have?

My cool take is that the Codex Astartes needs a better art director.

- The Raven Guard and Iron Hands should have a loser-leaves-town match to decide the black and white color scheme. Add in Deathwatch and you have entirely too much charcoal ceramite. IMHO, I'd make the Raven Guard a bit more native american themed, dark camo, tribal motifs, etc. Iron Hands have so little going for them lore-wise, they deserve the better color scheme. But this current duplication cannot stand.

- The Codex Astartes needs a better way to differentiate company markings than colored pauldron trim. 4th company Imperial Fists look ridiculous – Like a 1990s Nickelodeon commercial. The White Scars are the way. Let the Ultras resemble color-coded three-ring binders, but give the others a clear marking system that makes their organization stand out, rather than a Crayola crayon box.

How would you marginally improve the imperium of man? No major lore rewrites or Deus Ex developments, just little tweaks around the edges.

(Reminder: The subfactions are within their greater faction, so you can have good within an evil society as the good/evil scale is more a determination of selflessness to selfishness than what we would necessarily consider good or evil actions within our own society.)

The Imperium of Man: Lawful Evil
Not really much surprise here to anyone even remotely familiar with the setting. They are one of the quintessential Lawful Evil factions in fiction.

Astra Militarum: Lawful Good
Custodes: Lawful Neutral
Space Marines: Lawful Good-Evil (very much chapter dependent) 
Sororities: Lawful Good
Mechanicum: Lawful Neutral
Inquisition: Lawful Evil

Chaos: Chaotic Evil 
Again, no surprise there, however, the breakdown of the various gods was a lot more interesting the more I thought about it. 

Khorne: Neutral Evil (Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows.) 
Tzeentch: Chaotic Neutral (Tzeentch doesn't care about helping or hindering anyone as long as change continues.)
Slaanesh: Chaotic Evil 
Nurgle: Chaotic... Good (Okay, here me out here: Nurgle whole thing is it's belief that the plagues it provides give joy and bliss to others. You see all those smiling daemons and pox walkers and such. If it's true or not isn't the point as alignment is based on intent. The minions of Nurgle never hesitate to sacrifice themselves to spread their plagues, in fact, they often enjoy that too.) 

Craftworlds: Neutral Good 
Drukhari: Neutral Evil
Harlequins: True Neutral

Necrons: Lawful Evil

Orks: Neutral Evil

Tau: Lawful Good
Kroot: Lawful Neutral

Votaan: Lawful Neutral 

Tyranids: Neutral Evil

There were a few things that surprised me when I broke it all down. First, that there was a faction for each of the 9 alignments which I very much did not expect. Also that The Imperium, the Aeldari, and Chaos make up the trifecta of Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic regardless of sub faction (with the exception of Khorne which an argument could easily be made for Chaotic Evil as well). 

So what are your thoughts, anywhere I missed the mark? 
 

I can understand why this is believed, Arks of Omen definitely takes place after the Devastation of Baal and Darkness in the Blood considering that Dante has crossed the Rubicon, and a lot of the Dawn of Fire series seems to have Guilliman in the background working towards crossing into Nihilus.

There is however a major issue with this interpretation, Crusade: Pariah Nexus. For those who haven't read it or need a refresher, Pariah Nexus ends with a build up to Guilliman arriving at the Titular location with a large force from Fleet Primus, and thus leads into Dawn of Fire IX: The Silent King. The Silent Kind then ends with Guilliman heading back to Ultramar to fight Mortarion in the Plague War. The Problem is that the last act of the Pariah Nexus Crusade book features Vashtor Showing up in the Nexus with his new Daemon World Wormwood. Wormwood, having been made from the Ruins of Caliban, was not finished or activated until the finale of the Arks of Omen: The Lion.

This means that Devastation of Baal must have occurred at some point during the Dawn of Fire series, and that Guilliman must have managed to force his way back and forth through the Nachmund Gauntlet at least once before the Black Legion descended on it.

Now what does any of this actually mean?

Well for starters, The Lion has been awake and active for longer than most people seem to have realised. Secondly it means that Archmagos, Crusade: Armageddon or Crusade: Leviathan seem to be the furthest forward point in the timeline so far (Although I'm not certain which of those it would be.

Other than that? probably not much, but it seemed interesting to me.

Was there anything that I've missed? Are we going to have to break out the good old Timey-Wimey Warp time travel plot hole repair kit again? Am I putting way more thought into this than it deserves?

And Guilliman and other returned Heresy-era Loyalists don't have to imagine Horus gloating, for there are plenty of other Heresy-era Traitors around who would be happy to gloat as well.

So I wonder how conversations between the Loyalists and the Traitors about the concept of the Emperor's apotheosis and its relation to the rebellion would go in the 41st millennium, and how do you think they would go?

I guess one major point would be that the Traitors inadvertently brought about the Emperor's apotheosis by crippling him and taking him out of the picture, and also by taking out many of the Loyalist Primarchs and creating a situation where the remaining ones would leave, especially that of Corax, leaving the Imperium void of proper leadership and the masses free to venerate the Emperor as a god.

And also that the Imperial Cult swelled and rose as a result of the Horus Heresy war, it would never have become so huge without the war.

since I covered battle barges and strike cruisers in the above topic, and I think their destroyer and frigate options don’t need much said(feel free to ask about them or bring them up if you’d like) about them so here I’ll be moving on to the Imperial Fleet.

battleships

Emperor class- closest to the handful of ‘battle-carriers’ that were built or drawn up on paper.

Nemesis class- super carrier, like the Nimitz class.

Oberon class- kind of a weird one, I’d just fit it as a battleship with a few extra catapult aircraft than typical.

Retribution class- lots of guns, clearly just a battleship

Victory- another battleship

Vanquisher- battleship

Invincible- battleship

Incarnate- WWII fleet carrier

Tyrant- battleship

Ascension- battleship scale version of the USS Vesuvius. Not sure if that was an actual inspiration, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.

things will get weird with Grand Cruisers as they’re larger than Battlecruisers and we never had anything between battlecruiser and battleship.

Grand Cruiser

Avenger- it would seem to be an aviation heavy battleship. Maybe closer to an outdated battleship like a pre-dreadnought in a post dreadnought world, but carrying airplanes, and given a refit for more armor.

Exorcist- early fleet carrier like the USS Lexington, a carrier built on the hull of a battlecruiser and armed with 2 twin 8” turrets.

Vengeance- is called out as being outdated so again, seems like a pre-dreadnought battleship in a post dreadnought world.

Furious- battleship maybe a ‘pocket battleship’ since they’re noticeably smaller than battleships.

All in all the grand cruisers generally seem to be equivalent to either up armored pre-dreadnoughts, or not so coastal-coastal battleships. A few big powerful guns like a coastal battleship, but not on par with full fledged battleships, and the range of a cruiser.

Battlecruisers

Armageddon- standard battlecruiser. Meant to outgun cruisers, but not to join the line of battle.

Chalice- maybe more of a ‘panzerschiff’ heavier weapons than a heavy cruiser but not on the same level as a typical battlecruiser.

Mars- Escort carrier

Overlord- another textbook battlecruiser

Dominion- escort carrier

Mercury- more of a ‘large cruise’ or ‘super cruise’ than a true battlecruiser.

Long Serpent- same as mercury

Jovian- escort carrier

Lesser Cruisers (Heavy and Light)

There are so many classes here I’m going to just give some generalities 

Heavy cruisers

Lots of Hangars- Cold War helicopter carriers, like the Moskva, more heavily armed versions of the San Antonio class LPD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskva-class_helicopter_carrier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio-class_amphibious_transport_dock

gun/laser focused- standard heavy cruisers, maybe even ‘large cruiser’ if given abnormally heavy armament.

Light Cruisers

hangar decks- WWII sea plane cruisers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSwMS_Gotland_(1933)

guns/lasers/torpedoes- pretty standard light/scout cruiser

Escorts

Theres 3 classes of heavy frigates, but not much about any of them I can find, but the escort classification in general is a bit weird from a modern or WWI-WWII PoV. Frigates fill the role of what we’d recognize as destroyers, with the heavy frigates presumably being destroyer leaders.

The Firestorm Frigates I would liken to destroyers like the German Narvik class of DDs, with 150mm/5.9” guns they did mount what were essentially light cruiser guns, on a destroyer.

Meanwhile the BFG destroyer is more akin to the ocean going torpedo boats of the period roughly between 1880 and 1910. Only reason for their existence being torpedoes, with other armament just barely sufficient to engage other ships of their class.

To be continued

One good way of introducing a dash of colour into the sepia of the Imperium, IMO, is officially-sanctioned holidays, be the galaxy-wide or more localized. Now, to the best of my knowledge- and please correct me if I'm wrong here- there are three officially referred to galactically recognized Imperial holidays, all of which appear to be Christmas analogues and only one of which is in wide use in more modern fluff. Sanguinala (or is it Sanguinalia? I forget) is the "main" one, and appears to be dedicated specifically to Sanguinius, who is not only a martyr figure in the Imperium for obvious Horus-related reasons, but also in his lifetime was universally beloved and widely considered one of the greatest heroes in the Imperium's history, not just as a warrior or general, but as a man. Sanguinius, being esssentially the son of the Imperium's godhead, an incredibly benevolent and utterly swell guy respected and loved by all who met him (assuming your name isn't Kha'Banda, and even he later remarked "Gee, what a guy! There's nobody I'd rather have snap my spine than him!" punctuated with an "It is true!" from Khorne), also being incredibly potent as a warrior and leader, and ultimately brought low by the treachery of one who should have been his brother and those he had deceived, makes him arguably one of the more on-point Jesus analogues in fantastical fiction, and thus a perfect basis for a totally-not-Christmas. The other two are Candlemass (referred to a few times in old fluff, not greatly expanded upon to the best of my knowledge- I recall the Cardinal of Bray being murdered by the Chaos champion Periclitor in an insert-fluff piece in the 3.5E Chaos book whilst giving his Candlemass Day sermon) and Emperor's Day (so scarcely mentioned I'm not actually sure if it's a real thing or a fan-concept I Mandela'd into thinking was official, but fairly self-explanatory.)

That said, there's plenty of room for headcanon and fan-fluff to make some new ones up without contradicting anything. So let's come up with some!
 

Here's a few I've thought up:

Vulkannennacht: Recognized across the Imperium, though in varying degrees depending on locale. Celebration dedicated to Vulkan, known as one of the kindest, most benevolent and most protective of Primarchs, and a festivity associated with craftsmanship and charity. At sunset (or an appointed time on night worlds) fireworks are let off and gifts are given to family and close friends. Gifts are traditionally crafted by the giver, but can take any form, as whilst Vulkan was a smith beyond compare, it is the spirit of making the present and perfecting a craft for the benefit of another that is important, not the precise craft. As such they could take any form from a superbly smithed knife to a perfectly baked cake to a poem. Notably, whilst traditionally it is a two-way process, in accordance with the spirit of generosity (the act of giving itself rather than the material factor) it is most important for the more privileged to give gifts to those less fortunate or beneath them in hierarchy; masters will give gifts to their servants, the rich will give presents to the poor, etc. In subsectors where Vulkanennacht is widely celebrated (which tend to be some of the better parts) stinginess or meanness with gifts, especially from rich citizens or highly-ranked officials with subservient workers, is considered incredibly poor form to the point where even the hardest-hearted taskmasters will honour the spirit of the holiday; besmirching the soul of Vulkan's day is a faux pas of such magnitude it can result in permanent ostracization regardless of standing.

Mordenfest: Recognized galaxy-wide but not by all Imperial subcreeds. Somewhat reminiscent of a mix of Halloween and Day of the Dead. Lasts approximately one standard Terran month, Mordenfest is a celebration of the honoured dead, be they a fallen Space Marine hero or a departed grandparent. Precise celebratory habits vary depending on local culture, but generally decorations are hung, regalia is donned and festivals are held with the intention of presenting a less morbid or sad side to death, as a reminder that it is inevitable and not to be feared; we shall all be at the Emperor's side some day after all. There are a great deal of superstitions surrounding Mordenfest- it is believed by many that celebrating it the wrong way can bring bad luck, and that the point of the holiday is very specifically to celebrate the greatness of those no longer living and wish them peace in the afterlife, and not to glorify the process of death itself (though some subcultures actually take the opposite stance, believing that fearing death is contrary to the point of the holiday- and some take this a step further and make the whole thing into a celebration of martyrdom). In some areas of the Imperium it is not celebrated at all or even shunned as heretical, though these are minority cases- in fact, some very prominent Imperial figures are known for their appreciation for the holiday, including some Astartes Chapters. The Inquisition takes a keen interest in monitoring Mordenfest celebrations as it is believed by most within the Ordo Heretricus that, whilst a vitally important holiday to the Imperium's culture and morale that should absolutely be preserved, it is by its nature prone to sabotage or corruption by heretical influence. In fact, "dressing up for Mordenfest" is a common Inquisitorial colloquialism to refer to performing a seemingly frivolous task that holds considerable importance beyond what might be apparent.

Omnissiah's Day: Celebrated almost exclusively on forge worlds or in locales dominated by the Adeptus Mechanicus. Dedicated to the celebration of not only the Machine God Himself but also the Mechanicum as a whole and also the act of creation. On Omnissiah's Day, craftsmen- from the highest Magos to the lowliest serf- are given a day of freedom, not from duty or work itself (heresy grows from idleness) but rather to pursue a task of their choosing and to complete it to the best of their ability. Collaboration is encouraged, and whilst obviously a successful end product is desirable, the true goal of the holiday is not merely to increase productivity or create things, but to improve oneself so that the worker might serve the Emperor and the Omnissiah better in all things. Ergo, even if a creation fails or is unfinished, the learning experience gained from the process is a reward in itself. Omnissiah's Day is an unusual inversion of the norm for the Mechanicum, in that from a distance it is considered strange and unpleasant, but those who witness the joyous work firsthand often gain a new respect for the Scions of Mars. Indeed, it is a central lynchpin in those who defend the Martian Creed as a legitimate part of the Imperium's culture.

Ultramar's Rememberance: Also known as the Tyrannic Vigil. Predominantly confined to Ultramar, though often celebrated by Ultramarine descendent Astartes and by people that have survived an encounter with the Tyranids regardless of their home. A simple and solemn tradition in memoriam for those who fell to Hive Fleet Behemoth during the First Tyrannic War. Traditional are prayers to venerate and soothe the souls the honoured dead of the conflict, hymns of vengeance against the Tyranid menace, and sermons to remind people to be grateful for the safety and security they have. Naturally, these are participated in equal measure by regular humans and Space Marines.

Celebrato Fecundae: Celebrated across the entire Imperium. Very similar to Valentine's Day, Celebrato Fecudae lasts a standard Terran week. It is dedicated to not only love, romance and fertility (and everything that goes with it) but also prosperity and family. Whilst universally accepted as a very important holiday (denying its holiness is considered blasphemous, or at least incredibly morbid) the exact celebratory practices are massively varied. In some sectors it is a peaceful and low-key event where the populace reflect on the importance of familial bonds, whilst in others festivities are borderline-Baccanalian, and every stage in between exists. Another one closely monitored by the Inquisition for any signs of Chaotic or Xenos interference, for obvious reasons, however like Mordenfest the holiday itself is fiercely defended, especially after a radical Inquisitorial sect believing the holiday should be abolished was found to be part of an incredibly dangerous heretical death cult linked to Ma=][=EXPUNGED FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL=][=. One popular tradition amongst the more daring is to ask a Sororitas if she would join the individual in celebrations; depending on the local practices, temperment of the Sister, beliefs of her Convent and the manners of the asker, the results can be anything from a very happy ending for all involved, much laughter and embarrassment, or a new name to remember on Mordenfest (though such tragic ends are thankfully, and maybe surprisingly, uncommon).

Anyway. That's enough waffling from me. Over to you!

You could even produce a specialist game for it. You will have Space Marines (what else?!) of the Death Spectres wandering either through abandoned space stations or haunted planetary outposts in order to exterminate any specimen from the Ghoul Stars who has the ability to reach Imperial space. Model designers will be allowed to snort cocaine again and come up with crazy body horror creatures instead of cranking out the X-th version of a dinobot.

first the big question of why would the traitors of heresy be remembered but not II and XI? What could be so much worse than their betrayal and rebellion?

a successful rebellion. You hide the successes of your enemies and tout your own. So hide the fact a successful rebellion occurred, while making sure they all know about the rebellion you put down.

heres my theory.

XI was captured as incarcerated as per the custodese codex.

but II got away. Like the heresy marines from both legions, some stayed loyal to the emperor, some their primarchs.

the loyal marines were folded into the UM.

II escaped with what remained of his and his brother’s legions, but XI was captured buying time for his brother to escape.

now II has 8-20k marines under his command, he fled somewhere. Slowly began growing an empire of his own as a truly benevolent ruler. Maybe he has no idea about the heresy, or at least not until much later. 
now he sees the imperium weakened while his empire is the strongest it’s ever been, and he seizes this opportunity to not only attempt to free his brother, but lead humanity into the golden age of utopia and enlightenment the emperor had claimed he wanted.

what if II and XI were the good guys, and now one of them returned to the setting with their own empire?

XI sacrificing himself so his brother could escape could also be a mirror of sanguinius’ sacrifice as well. Maybe it turns out they were close, and that is why sanguinius felt so much shame over imperium secundus. It reminded him of his lost brother, his favored brother, just for his second favorite brother to also betray him and the emperor.

how would you feel if the game and setting had actual good guys?

To preface, as I was getting into 40K & learned of the Primarchs, including the missing 2nd & 11th Primarchs. It appeared to me that these missing Primarchs were a way to give people (like me) the ability to make their own Space Marine legions that weren’t part of the “known” Primarchs. It makes sense as a means to say “no one knows who they were, but players can take them & make whatever they want.”

However, in recent times it seems like GW has started making lore regarding these lost Primarchs meaning that (at least to me) trying to make lore surrounding them & making custom chapters is now conflicting with established lore.

My idea was “what if there were more than 20 Primarchs?” What if the Emperor had created more “proto-Primarchs” who either vanished when they were sent into the Warp, deemed failures & destroyed at some point or even just never made it past infancy? The Emperor likely would have still used their gene-seed to make more Astartes & it could be said that only those made from these proto-Primarchs have any knowledge of them. It could be a new & interesting way to make custom chapters who are not just descendants of the main 20.

Anyway, what do y’all think? The idea is still half-baked, but I’m open to feedback. As always, thank you for your time & input & God bless!

A recent read of the Rogue Trader book mentioned Rogue Traders leaving the Milky Way galaxy and never being heard from again. Is this a missed opportunity to come up with stories from visitors or returning Rogue Traders from other galaxies? A few months ago I bought the trilogy Forges of Mars (Graham McNeill; 2012-2014) and it turned out to be an adventure story of an Imperial fleet going onto a crusade into uncharted galactic territory. This was a breath of fresh air as the run-of-the mill 40K story boils down to a planetary invasion of Xenos XYZ and the Imperium has to deal with it in one way or another. 

Do you think it needs to be this way because Warhammer is a wargame and therefore needs to have lots of easily identified xenos as enemies in comparison to having more adventure stories in the spirit of Star Trek?

i had some thoughts.

1. would the emperor want to be elevated to warp god status?

if no, what if it was the only way to secure mankind’s future?

2. can living being refuse it, if the emotion of faith in them is strong enough for long enough? So could big E have even had a say in the matter of his ascension to godhood?

3. are warp gods actually gods in our conventional sense, or is it the only word we have to describe the immense power they have?

4. Did the emperor abhor the religions of man because they were just superstitions holding the species back, and his distaste at the idea of being seen as a god himself to avoid that same fruitless superstition from taking root in his empire? But now he’s been elevated to the level of a ‘god’ would he actually be bothered by his status and the fact he is worshipped? I’m sure he’d have an issue with the way it’s done regardless.

Personally I dont think therell be a WB codex, maybe Lorgar and some units in Chaos Codex.

8th and the start of 9th had campaign ( I use the term lightly) supplements that kicked off octarius and the Pariah nexus.

I can't think of anything released so far for this edition that has meaningfully developed the setting and we are by my crude maths just over a third of the way through the edition.

One of the big enjoyment factors I had was playing in these developing storylines and areas, I think I've come to realise it all feels a bit empty without them.

It’s inspired me to work on a short story about a gunboat involved in the civil war going on, on my regiment’s homeworld.

I think every named character of the Dark Angels is named after either a demon, angel, or person with Judeo-Christian origin outside of the Lion himself who was named after a devout Catholic (though he was obviously picked for his poetry and not his religion.)  I wonder if there has ever been any interviews or articles about how they name the characters.  I swear I saw an interview a while back about this but I can’t find it.  I know many of the Blood Angels are too, though not all.  Maybe it’s because they are both * Angels?  Abaddon is a demon name too though and I’m sure there are others.  Idk.  This is probably mind numbingly boring to most people but I find it interesting.

For the players that have been around for a long time, how do you feel about changes/development to your favorites over time?  Did you embrace them, ignore them, shelve the faction?

example: Space Wolves. Originally just another Space Marine chapter. Later leaned into the Viking and wolf motiffs more, with wolf pelts and talismans, metal figures that incorporated those things and later plastic upgrade kit. Then leaned even heavier in, riding giant wolves, turning into werewolves, ice lasers, etc. 

For some the changes were undoubtedly a plus, and for some were the reason they were drawn to them in the first place. For others a turn-off at x level when focus shifted to more wolf and less marine. 
 

For your own armies, how did this play out for you?