The Neurode Crusade - Heresy Warning

[CastellanDeMolay]

I think Mantic are onto something with their chess clock idea for tournaments. Games are timed, and each player has 1 hour to complete their turns. If the clock hits 1 hour on either side before the end of the game, that player loses. 

I think every game should have the same thing. 

[Brother Christopher]

I wouldn't have ever thought that his delaying could have a tactical significance, but now I can see that it actually might. Well...

 

Why haven't I thought about that? It was not a tournament, but a more limited turn-time would make my defeat much more pleasant. It's not that  I'd be a fan of "here's 3 minutes, do all the shooting NOW" or strictly sticking to imposed time limits, but I really mean what I say: that's a great idea.

 

BTW: I'd love to see the look on some IG/Tau player's faces, whose shooting phases take forever and 5 more minutes

 

BTW2: It was also quite annoying to hear a lecture that witches are now a MUST and how great divination is. It's an enormous disappointment that I couldn't prove him wrong and slay his foul and precious magicians.

 

BTW3: Quad Guns can no longer shoot at normal BS at ground and flyer targets, as interceptor+skyfire does not give the 6th ed. versatility, do they?

 

Oh, a day of epiphanies!

Edited July 3, 2014 by Brother Cristopher

[CastellanDeMolay]

I just checked and Skyfire is normal BS against Flyers/FMC/Skimmers, and snaps against everything else. 

 

The other thing I like about the chess clock idea is that it adds another dimension to list building. Specifically it creates a drawback to MSU that otherwise doesn't exist with so many FOC slots available. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by CastellanDeMolay

[Brother Christopher]

Well, so I was right after all about the quad gun. Good for me.

 

Sorry, but what does MSU stand for?

 

An update incoming! As I assume that finishing the techmarine is a one-two evening deal, I'm making some solid preparations for the potential upcoming vow and games. Today's theme: Ironclads.

 

As some of you may remember, some time ago I started a conversion of an assault on black reach dreadnought into an Ironclad. Initially, it was supposed to be armed with the Seismic Hammer (that I wanted to scratch build) and a DCCW. However, as I bought a regular Ironclad, I figured that I'll save some time and effort and use the set of Hurricane Bolters. I suppose that the additional melee attack might be worth the 3-6 bolter shots. And I'll also have more variety in the army.

 

I wanted to blend a typical, GW dreadnought look with that of Forgeworld's Ironclad.

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/icmkiv3.jpg

 

Accordingly, the 'leg guards' and panels on the side of the sarcophagus are supposed to resemble those of the FW's model, and the original sarcophagus panel is replaced by the one from the BT upgrade sprue. I figured that it would be a waste not to use that bit, and back then I didn't have any "regular" GW dreadnought to fit the piece onto.

 

So, my dread has a heavy flamer attached to a slightly modified DCCW that is supposed to serve as a Seismic Hammer. I hope that noone will make a problem out of this.

 

Here's my conversion next to the AoBR dread.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080247_zps8edbfee7.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080246_zps054ce87b.jpg

 

What I changed with the original AoBR model?

 

> repositioning of the torso and legs (I hoped to achieve a better result; the repositioning was made for a prior conversion idea, a project that luckily failed and made room for the Ironclad project)

 

> exchanging of the sarcophagus

 

> adding detail to dreadnought's "feet" making them a bit more like GW's Ironclad's

 

> extending the exhausts tips (the holes I drilled in them are a disappointment, but I figure I'll leave them be as they are)

 

> adding power/fuel cords on the bottom of the power plant

 

> adding FW-inspired legguards and panels

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080237_zpsccc82d51.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080238_zpsda13d9de.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080239_zps2be926aa.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080240_zpsc74061b0.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080242_zps30bdb538.jpg

 

I'm not fully satisfied with the leg pose, but I don't feel like cutting, repositioning and gluing them again. He's taking a step, that's what he's doing, right?

 

And my creation next to a regular Ironclad.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080244_zps2260e5d6.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/Ironclad%20Dreadnought/P1080245_zps32700cdd.jpg

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

I believe MSU stands for Multiple Small Units.

 

I just love the stomping forward look of that Dreadnought, its as if he REALLY wants to get to grips with the enemy. Very Templar. 

Edited July 4, 2014 by SCOTT_FRANCIS

[Brother Christopher]

Yeah, for once the photo shows a model in a better light! I weren't sure about the pose, but in the photos it looks really dynamic. As always, thanks for the comment! :)

 

***

 

Also, do you have any tips how to beat a mech-infantry, "MSU" army? I thought my last battle over and have no idea how to deal with him at 1300 points. Cover doesn't help, because of the manticore, because of this a whirlwind becomes obsolete. Drop pods are no use because of the quad gun/coatez. Rhinoes are useless because of the hail of re-rollable s6 blasts and autocannons. Reserves and flyers seem an arrow to the knee, because I'm "points down:" he has his 1300 worth of units camping behind the aegis and shooting at my weaker force.

 

So, as I see I'm in a disadvantaged position if he wins the roll-off. I could count on an alpha strike of a squad of sternguards with combi flamers and an ironclad, but coatez ruins the day (he deployed his units in one corner, neatly packed behind the defence line). Predators are expensive compared to his tanks and are no match for his barrages and armour, too. I can't outshoot him. Land Speeders could be good, but fielding them separately takes up FA slots, and a squadron won't survive a turn for sure. A thunderfire cannon would do the trick, but I don't have one. Bikes and assault marines could be the trick. They might take some fire away from the tanks and might reach his line and deliver some kind of punch as the rest of the army proceeds.

 

I definitely need more units than what I fielded: a rhino, a vindi and an LRC on a table against an whole-shooty army? That's not enough. For my defence, I didn't know what I'd be up against and the game was supposed to be 'friendly,' so that's the explanation for the lame list.

 

Oh, that defeat really got to me and is stuck in my head. It seems that despite the variety and quantity of models, I have nothing against an IG/Tau gunline. There again, do SM have the capacity to outshoot them?

[Andhil]

Outshoot IG? Don't count on it. Guard can bring so many guns, both big and small to the table that it's quite normal to face lengthy shooting phases (which is also why I'm opposed to timing turns, Marine armies play a lot faster than a horde, shooty army. )

Believe me, the shooting turns get worse on high pts. I play 3K Guard at times and my Shooting phases take about as long as my opponent's entire turn. However my movement and assault phases are done in a single minute.

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

I apologise Brother, I have no idea, other than assault, but then again, he would just overwatch you to death. I hope our veteran Brothers can help. 

 

 

Edit - with the GK Codex 

 

Other than know your enemy!!!

 

Coteaz is a ML 2 IC, with Spy Network and I've Been Expecting You.

 

SN - re roll sieze initiative or make the opponent re roll his.

IBEY - If enemy arrives within 12" and within Line Of Sight,  Coteaz and his unit make on out of turn shooting attack. 

 

Psyber Eagle - 24", S4, AP-, Ass D6

 

Is this how he played Coteaz???

Edited July 4, 2014 by SCOTT_FRANCIS

[Golf33]

That Ironclad is awesome. Very impressive plastic card work and a great dynamic pose. I wouldn't have thought the AoBR dread could turn into something so cool.

 

How did you manage the curved bits of plastic card? That's something that has always stumped me.

[CastellanDeMolay]

MSU is Minimum Sized Unit. 

It's generally considered optimal until you run into FoC limitations, and so long as you can still average the same number of good weapons per x models/points. 

 

Also, do you have any tips how to beat a mech-infantry, "MSU" army? I thought my last battle over and have no idea how to deal with him at 1300 points. Cover doesn't help, because of the manticore, because of this a whirlwind becomes obsolete. Drop pods are no use because of the quad gun/coatez. Rhinoes are useless because of the hail of re-rollable s6 blasts and autocannons. Reserves and flyers seem an arrow to the knee, because I'm "points down:" he has his 1300 worth of units camping behind the aegis and shooting at my weaker force.

I wouldn't classify the army you faced as MSU, certainly not with the large 30 man units of guard. (although guard generally benefit from being in large blobs with multiple sergeants keeping their leadership up) That said killing MSU is the same as killing everything else for the most part. His army actually seems like a pretty good all-comers list, albeit one made up of very powerful, arguably cheesy, units. He has a decent spread of anti-tank and anti-infantry, psykers, plenty of hull points floating around, and a few scoring units. 

 

I just checked the stats on the Manticore, and those Storm Eagle rockets are BRUTAL. Unfortunately if he's castled up in a corner you won't be doing much to it without barrage weapons of your own. The only merciful thing is it's BS3, so you should see it scatter a fair distance most of the time, if it's firing indirectly. Also the minimum range of 24" means that once you're up close and personal, that tank he has penned in by his own troops becomes practically irrelevant. 

 

The twin-linked Autocannons sound like Taurox', the S6 Blasts could be the Leman Russ Eradicator Nova Cannon, and the Chimera chassis with the TL/Shred/Blast guns sounds like Wyverns which each come with a pair of Twin-linked Stormshard Mortars. All in all, nasty stuff all around. They have nasty guns, but the good news is the platforms they mount them on are soft as baby :cuss. The Chimera chassis confers AV 12-10-10 3HP and the Taurox 11-10-10 3HP. The cover saves afforded by the Aegis are problematic

 

Multiple Thunderfire cannons firing surface detonation rounds should reliably plink them to death. Whirlwinds don't have the rate of fire necessary to make their S5 Vengeance ammo worthwhile. Legion of the Damned are excellent in this scenario, as they can take 5 marines/Meltagun/Multimelta for 145 points, and nothing will ignore their 3++. Otherwise you probably want Lascannons. 

 

The main problem I see is that his anti-tank takes away your momentum in the early game, leaving you too little to finish the job. Your marines are more than enough to take on his infantry, so concentrate all of your ranged firepower into anti-tank weapons. 

 

So, as I see I'm in a disadvantaged position if he wins the roll-off. I could count on an alpha strike of a squad of sternguards with combi flamers and an ironclad, but coatez ruins the day (he deployed his units in one corner, neatly packed behind the defence line). Predators are expensive compared to his tanks and are no match for his barrages and armour, too. I can't outshoot him. Land Speeders could be good, but fielding them separately takes up FA slots, and a squadron won't survive a turn for sure. A thunderfire cannon would do the trick, but I don't have one. Bikes and assault marines could be the trick. They might take some fire away from the tanks and might reach his line and deliver some kind of punch as the rest of the army proceeds.

 

Coteaz' "I've Been Expecting You!" is a bitch, so hope you don't scatter within 12" of Coteaz (not his unit, just his actual base) and try to stay out of his line of sight on the turn you arrive, terrain permitting. You mentioned the Psyber Eagle was AP1, I've just checked and it's AP-, you should always get a save against it. As always deepstriking is an all or nothing proposition. Send too few units into the enemy's face and you leave them with enough space to deal with them before the rest of your models can catch up. Target saturation is a necessity. 

For future reference you can fire Interceptor shots, and I believe also IBEY!, at units disembarking from transports arriving from reserves. 

As far as out-shooting him, no, you won't, but you don't have to. You only have to destroy enough of his weapon platforms to be able to get your tanks close to his lines. Given the weapons at his disposal in that list, you could pump everything you have into his Manticore, and nothing else can even touch a Landraider, save the Lascannon on the command squad, so hiding your Rhinos etc behind it as you advance is an option. He won't stop 2 Landraiders with MoTF/Techmarines in them.  

 

I definitely need more units than what I fielded: a rhino, a vindi and an LRC on a table against an whole-shooty army? That's not enough. For my defence, I didn't know what I'd be up against and the game was supposed to be 'friendly,' so that's the explanation for the lame list.

 

You could go with black tide. Fill out as many slots as possible. 

6x 5-man Crusader squads is 420 points before equipment. 

3x 5-man Assault squads is 255 points before equipment. 

Rhinos for this lot would be 210 points. 

He's fairly unlikely to plink through 27HP in the two turns it takes for you to be on him. 

This MSU approach might be worthwhile, since it forces your opponent to waste shots on overkill on individual units, when a larger squad would take more casualties from the same shooting. Rhinos can bunker up in front of his lines to protect your units from the bulk of his shooting. Although fitting enough anti-tank into a list like this would be problematic, it's doable. 

 

Oh, that defeat really got to me and is stuck in my head. It seems that despite the variety and quantity of models, I have nothing against an IG/Tau gunline. There again, do SM have the capacity to outshoot them?

 

The beauty of SM isn't in being able to outdo other armies at their own game, it's in being a jack of all trades. Whatever opponent you face, be what they aren't. You can hold your own in any respect, so feel free to shoot them on the way in, then punish them in close quarters for being so specialised. If you try to out-shoot them, then you're giving them what they want. Your strategy should be similar to what your opponent did to you (ignoring the slow-play), specifically take his advantages away from him. Cripple his long range anti-tank, and then he can't take away your momentum or mass as you cross the board. 

[Brother Christopher]

@ Scott

Yeah he's "basically" been playing him that way, minus the AP on the psyber eagle that he claimed was 1. Luckily, I lost only one marine to that, as it was out of range after it killed that marine.

 

@ CastellanDeMolay.

The BS on his vehicles is no problem because of psychic powers, so he can re-roll those scatters, which is annoying.

It also is a relief that you seem to confirm my feelings about the cheesyness (is this even a word? :D) of his army.

If I play against him again, I'll try one of the two things. Either 2 LRC (but I feel that 2 of those in c 1300 game is a stretch) or a mass of small units. It opens new problems, like the potential of him getting more VPs through killing my squads, but I'm fairly convinced that it might work. 4 Rhinoes with crusaders, 2-3 assault squads with heavy flamers and some heavy support (maybe devastators, as taking down infantry didn't go so well for him last time) or bikes.

 

@Golf

Thanks! With the plasticard, I use thin sheets (0.25mm or 0.5mm) that, before gluing them, I "temper" by pressing them around round objects, typically pens or some tubes when the curve is bigger. Plasticard usually retains some of the shape from the pressing. However, with the dread it was a fairly simple matter, as I simply glued (using super glue) the "tempered" bits onto the already rounded guards, which served as a perfect base for the final shape.

[Andhil]

I can certainly advise Land Raiders. Even for Lascannons penetrating AV14 is really hard. 2 of them should see your heavy hitters arrive safely. 

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

I have never tried 'bending' the plasticard first, I will try that. Ta.

 

2 LR would scare him, and I think you could squeeze them in!!!

 

LRC w MM

LR    w MM

 

leaves 700 points for other stuff.

 

Yeah, go for twin LR's. 

[Brother Christopher]

Sorry, sir. I am a templar at heart. Our ancestors who came up with the Crusader pattern knew what they were doing and I follow their steps. Hence, no LR in my armoury. Only LRCs. That said... I should get a LC LR some time in the future...

 

And BTW, isn't 2LRCs in 1300 points... cheesy?

[Marshal Mattias]

Thanks to the typo, I misread that as 'Coteaz and his unit make-out.'

Lol'ed. Anyway.

Does that mean Coathook and his unit get to make a shooting attack against multiple enemies, should they all happen to arrive within the criteria?

Also, if your first wave of drop-pods were ironclad dreads and Deathwind missile launchers, wouldn't they survive better and cause some horrific damage with large blasts and flamer templates, especially if he has bunched all his units up. Then, once coatwax and his guys are engaged, being in deep-striking multi-Melta speeders to take on his tanks. You'll probably lose something to AA fire, but they are fairly cheap and effective.

Those are just my gut-reactions, I can't vouch for how well it would do as I haven't played against such a list myself.

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

LOL

 

Coteaz and his unit out of turn firing - "There is no limit on how many times this ability can be used in a turn."

 

Oh, 2 LRC's in a 1300 point army is not cheesy. 

 

2 LRC in a 1000 point army may be a little cheesy. 

 

And I apologize the landraiders don't come with MM, so you gotta buy them. That would leave only 780 to make up the rest.

2  big Crusader squads with Neophytes and a chaplain.

 

I do agree that the LRC is the LR of choice for BT, but no Marshall would ignore an asset as destructive, flexible and durable as a standard Landraider.  . 

Edited July 5, 2014 by SCOTT_FRANCIS

[Brother Christopher]

 

I do agree that the LRC is the LR of choice for BT, but no Marshall would ignore an asset as destructive, flexible and durable as a standard Landraider.  . 

 

True! That's why I'll get one. But first I have to paint the two talons, storm raven, vindi, whirlwind, stalker, 3 dreads, pods, not to mention some infantry. And a Stormraven is cheaper than a LR and delivers a similar punch... or so I want to believe.

[Honda]

I don't know how I missed this, but your AOBR Ironclad conversion is brilliant looking. There's some serious modeling going on and you've truly transformed an average model into something spectacular. Well done!

 

Coathook is really annoying, but I feel that as others have posited, the LRC is part of the solution...and there is no number of these that become cheesy. The LRC was created for us, it's ours and it's what we do. Take it.

 

The fact that your opponent takes Coathook in an non-GK army says it all to me. Take it to him.

 

NO PITY. NO REMORSE. NO FEAR.

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

Brother Honda, as always you bring the ZEAL and the truth, Coteaz is a . Unfortunately, I beleive this guy is using him within his fluff.

 

"Not for Coteaz is the way of the Inquisitorial Mandate, of requisitioning troops when need presents itself - he sought an army of his own, ever at his beck and call."

 

Torquemada Coteaz is of the Ordo Malleus, and has ever been driven by a single consuming passion: to destroy Deamons wheresoever they manifest.

 

 

 

The Storm Raven is a great tool, but is a little less durable than the mighty Landraider, it does, however, bring different abilities to the BT. 

 

My 1500 point BT army has a LRC, a LR and a SR. Cheesy? Oh no.

 

In a 2000 pointer I will also bring my Predator Executioner and my Vindicator. 

 

Lots and lots of hurt. 

[Honda]

Another thought, though this would need to be confirmed by someone. The Lucius pattern drop pod, for dreadnoughts, now allows the dread to remain on board T1. This means that you can encase your beautiful Ironclad in ablative AV12 for one turn. Next turn, you can pop out and then assault.

 

Think about what two of  those in Coathook's backfield might do?

[Marshal Mattias]

What a lovely idea! And if I remember; didn't the lucius count as open-topped or something? (Gaining the assault rule that way) Because then you could be firing your guns from onboard, right?

And should they blow apart the drop pod around you, who cares? It's not going to damage you, and I'm pretty sure you can't be pinned by it. Also so have move-through-cover for dealing with wreckage.

[Brother Christopher]

Sorry for not answering in time. With the Lucius pattern drop pod, there's the problem that I don't own one. And I don't like proxing. Apart from that, I absolutely love the idea. By the way, do you know whether Contemptor dreadnoughts and Siege dreadnoughts can take regular drop pods as dedicated transports? It says in the IA book that they may choose a Lucious pattern pod. While with Contemptors it might make sense, it doesn't with Siege dreads (and Mortis Pattern ones), as they don't differ much from regular SM dreads and Ironclads.

 

And to change topic a bit, a small ETL update. I have to finish this guy soon, so that I'll manage to paint the two Stormtalons before the end of the month.

 

Techmarine, some metallics and highlighting done.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/ETL/P1080251_zpse81f4963.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/ETL/P1080252_zpscbac5ac7.jpg

[Firepower]

Hm, weird that I've never dropped in my two cents on this thread...

 

Well, there's too much to go over through 12 pages, but I will say that I quite like the plasticard job you've done on the dreadnought.  One of many skills I envy, yet do not have the patience to master :D

[Brother Christopher]

The 2nd vow is finally done. I won't be able to paint anything after Wednesday, so I'm thinking about doing a hasty 3rd vow: to paint 2 Stormtalons up to a tabletop quality to toss the additional 250 points to the BT cause and finish the models up to my standard when I'll have more time. I'll have to wait and see how that'll go. For now, here's the finished techmarine.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/ETL/P1080253_zpsfb9c0ecf.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k260/krj_38/ETL/P1080254_zpsa03b012b.jpg

[Brother Christopher]

I just started work on my 3rd vow, two stormtalons. I have one concern, though. Is there any 'method' of painting the canopy's frames? I mean, I don't see a way to undercoat it (covering the glass with tape appears to be out of the question) and painting it black without anything beneath seems to be a tiring and counter-productive. It requires a number of coats of paint, because it 'slides' and 'pools' on the slippery surface. So, how to handle with the transparent plastic?