Duncan’s Thousand Sons method

[EnsignJoker]

I’m starting a thousand sons army and will be using the method Duncan showed in his WarTV tutorial a few years ago. I had some questions about the technique I was hoping some of you might be able to answer.

 

Why do you think he dry brushed Sigmarite over the gold after his first layer of Thousand Sons Blue? Wouldn’t it make more sense to just drybrush all the gold and then block in the other colors?

 

Why did he recommend undercoating the model with chaos black and then retributer armour? Won’t that obscure detail with 2 spray coats? Can’t the same effect be achieved with just retributer armor spray without first undercoating black?

 

Finally, since tesseract glow wasn’t around at the time of his tutorial, do you think that color would make a good choice for the ghostly eye lenses?

 

Thanks mates!

[Tichinde]

Why do you think he dry brushed Sigmarite over the gold after his first layer of Thousand Sons Blue? Wouldn’t it make more sense to just drybrush all the gold and then block in the other colors?

 

good question. I don't paint this way (I always paint the trim last) but I see no reason why not to do as you suggest 

 

Why did he recommend undercoating the model with chaos black and then retributer armour? Won’t that obscure detail with 2 spray coats? Can’t the same effect be achieved with just retributer armor spray without first undercoating black?

 

Black first give the model better "shading" and the spray, if done correctly, will provide a nice thin layer. I routinely use 2-3 basecoat sprays (thin and don't lose any detail but it will depend on the paint you are using.

 

Finally, since tesseract glow wasn’t around at the time of his tutorial, do you think that color would make a good choice for the ghostly eye lenses?

 

Should be fine. I use either old citadel green glaze over a white base, or the hexwraith flame technical to get a similar effect.

 

for example:

 

Black-then leadbelcher base coat drybrushed silver with ahkelian green contrast over the top. (I wanted mine to be a metallic blue similar to the traditional colour)

trim picked out in retributor, then fleshshade, then highlighted liberator and silver

stripes the same as Duncan

eyes as mentioned:

 

 

some other examples I mention here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336154-heresy-thousand-sons-metallic-no-air-brush-required/

 

you can see the 3-spray basecoat in action :-)

Edited July 21, 2021 by Tichinde

[EnsignJoker]

Awesome, thanks so much for the detailed response tichinde!

[Tichinde]

no worries, they are great models to paint, if a little time consuming!

 

you can see more examples of my Thousand Sons (and my initial attempts to find a method I liked) here (along with a few other random things):

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331505-tichs-prospero-project-sorcerer-dread-21-feb-21/

[Trokair]

Why did he recommend undercoating the model with chaos black and then retributer armour? Won’t that obscure detail with 2 spray coats? Can’t the same effect be achieved with just retributer armor spray without first undercoating black?

 

If you are using spray cans for your undercoating and you are losing details then you may be holding the spray to close, or to long.

Regarding why black first, in part as Tichinde said it helps with the look.

 

However it is also my understanding that the primary undercoat sprays (white, black, and I think mechanicus grey, wraithbone and grey seer) are formulated to have more of the chemicals that help the paint stick/form a better layer for subsequent paint compared to the other coloured spray paints, and that in particular the metallic sprays are the ones with the most issues (on account of the metallic) and therefore benefit the most from a base layer to adhere to compared to bare plastic/resin/metal.

 

I assume it was this video you where referring to:

 

I think he did all the base coating/washing before the drybrushing of the gold so that the areas that need it are better defined/easier to spot. Also GW painting videos are ofthen structured into bare minimum, additional stuff and fine detail. So a inexperienced hobbyist will probably be ok if all they did was basecoat and wash (and maybe a few select details like eyes if they can), then most hobbies can do the dry brushing, and then those who like painting can do the highlights and so on.  

 

Taking a tutorial as a starting point is useful, but if you think you know what you are doing have a go on a few practice models and if you like your way stick to that.

[LameBeard]

I am currently using a similar method for some Titanicus plates with metallic trim:

 

Primer, spray metal, wash metal, dry brush metal, fill in plates with colour leaving a metal trim. For me the dry brush is very messy and so essential to do it before filling in.

[Xenith]

Why did he recommend undercoating the model with chaos black and then retributer armour? Won’t that obscure detail with 2 spray coats? Can’t the same effect be achieved with just retributer armor spray without first undercoating black?

 

 

 

Retributor armour, and to a lesser extent, leadbelcher is weird. If you spray it wrong, it will melt the models. I had this issue with ret. armour and complained to GW, who said ret. armour shouldnt be used as an undercoat and to apply another colour first. In later vids, you can see sanguinary guard models with a grainy texture as duncan used ret.armour as an undercoat and it started to etch the models. 

[Jukkiz]

Priming black adn then metal is usually done to give metal more area to stick and "look better" as it is. You can try to paint pieces of sprue black and white and then metals ontop of those. Compare after and you can see the difference. Something to do with metal flakes and black colour.

Someone with more IQ can explain better

[EnsignJoker]

This is really helpful mates, I appreciate your responses. I do recall spraying bare models leadbelcher and wondering why they seem grainy and “off”. It makes sense metallic sprays would adhere better to a primary base spray.

 

I just always thought/worried multiple spray covers would dilute too much detail. Very good to know that’s not the case!

[Xenith]

 

I just always thought/worried multiple spray covers would dilute too much detail. Very good to know that’s not the case!

 

Yea, it's tricky - just try to keep the coats quite thin is the best/only advice I can give? It doesn't need to be a solid black layer, just enough to coat all the model and put a layer of paint between the plastic and the metallic paint going down. I found that the metallics need to be sprayed from a little further away from the normal GW paints if that helps too. Also, shake the hell out of them, a solid 3 - 4 mins. 

[WarriorFish]

I think it's worth remembering in this case especially that the primer is just that - something to help paint adhere to the model, I don't think of it as a colour directly but rather a base for the colours that will be going on top You don't need a pristine black coat over every millimetre of the model, otherwise the conditions are what makes a spraying successful including as noted a good round of agitation for spray cans before use

 

As for the Sigmarite this is a good addition that really completes the gold alongside the Reikland wash but I also do it before any blocking in because I'm not very good, but like any painting guide they're there to help you achieve the results you want. The specifics in how you get there don't matter aside from being noted down so you can replicate them later

[Angel of Death]

maybe its some form of glow effect that he wants to pull off by painting shimmers of gold, then painting the retributor armor?

maybe it will give it more of a shining glowing effect? maybe, actually, I have no clue here, just making some wild guesses :)

[EnsignJoker]

I just happened to watch one of Duncan’s own tutorials on how to paint Night Lords, and he actually starts from a Mechanicus Standard Grey basecoat. He says you could do a retributer armor base, but since the Night Lords blue armor is so dark, it tends not to catch well on the retributer armor because of how smooth the base is.

 

I’m like, does your Rubric tutorial still count and the Blue is light enough to go over the retributer or what?? Lol

 

Spray priming is an art in itself it seems….

[Xenith]

I've seen that - If the smoothness of the spray is a concern, you can always overbrush the ret.armour spray with ret.armour from a pot to change the texture. 

 

basically, it still works, but just takes a couple of coats rather than a single one. y Thousand Sons are Kantor Blue over leadbelcher and the leadbelcher is so bright it takes 2 coats, despite the thickness of the kantor. 

[dempaattack]

I just started with 1k-sons aswell and Im using Duncans method.

Do you guys glue the models together at once?

Or do you sub assembly then glue it together?

 

[Xenith]

Whatever works for you! With more recent models, I'd probably leave the bolter and backpack off to allow access to more of the model, then glue them on afterwards. On a particularly detailed model, I'll leave the arms off entirely. 

[dempaattack]

@Xenith Yeah the backpack and bolter. The brestplate is so damn hard to paint with the bolter glued on.
I might skip the head aswell.

[Xenith]

With the backpack off, you should have reasonable access to the head at the back - I leave helmedted heads on as they're fiddly to paint separate, but I glue bare heads to a piece of sprue and prime separately. 

[Mumeishi]

I always leave helmets off, it glues in quite easily and i just put the neck on a pot with blu tac and paint it easier that way. i always find it hard to get at that power pack bits (old marines) less of a hassle with Primaris... unless you leave the back pack off (yes i agree with that bit Xenith ) 

There's some really nice T'sons in this thread 

 

M. 

[Galloway]

For marines I do backpack off, as well as right arm+weapon as as separate subassembly. Makes it easier to get at chest and other details, but then easy to glue together after all is painted. I used to do heads separate as well but think that may have been more trouble then it was worth.

[dempaattack]

Well I will go for subassembly. =)