Chaos Daemons Codex: Chaos Daemons

[Khornestar]

Would someone mind posting a summary for those of us who can’t watch the video right now? Would very much appreciate it!

Edited August 3, 2022 by Khornestar

[Evil Eye]

Genuinely can't remember if I said this or not (apologies if so) but having read the HH 1.0 Daemon army list rules, I kinda wanna take them and combine them with the upcoming Codex. The rules for that were incredible, more or less allowing you to make any daemon you wanted, and the fact it's confined to an old edition of "Space Marines vs Space Marines" is criminal.

[Special Officer Doofy]

49 minutes ago, Khornestar said:

Would someone mind posting a summary for those of us who can’t watch the video right now? Would very much appreciate it!

Sure! Soul grinder Stat line

8"M 3+ws/bs S8 T8 16W 5A 8LD 4+/5+ ranged/melee Daemon save

Ranged guns are

Cannon 48" heavy 6 S6 -2ap D2

Belly gun 36" heavy d6 (blast) S8 -2ap D3

Melee weapons (iron claw and one of the others)

Iron claw Sx2 -3ap d6

Sword S8 -3ap d3+3 damage +2 attacks with this weapon

Other claw S8 -2ap D2 +4 attacks with this one

Depending on which god:

Tzeentch - 4+ in melee

Khorne - +1 attack

Nurgle - +1 toughness

Slaanesh - +2" movement

Edit: that was about it, obviously at 16W it will bracket somehow, but they didn't mention it

Edited August 3, 2022 by Putrid Choir

[TrawlingCleaner]

Confirmation on the dual saves (not that there was any doubt) 3+ on the Tzeentch stuff vs shooting makes some tanky Greater Daemons!

 

Article here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/05/two-saves-are-better-than-one-for-the-horrific-hordes-in-codex-chaos-daemons/

[Ahzek451]

More tzeentch:

"

It's Friday, and the votes are in! As you all requested, here's flamers:

The bad news:
- no more mortal wounds stratagem
- more expensive
- smaller unit size (max 6 now)

The good news:
- vastly improved base damage output: d6+2 shots each at s5 ap-2 d1
- increased durability - now flamers are t4 3w, but the real juice is that they have the fabled 3+ save against ranged, though only have a 6+ save against melee
- Flickering Flames still exists - with the increased shots, ap, and strength, +1 to wound is more potent than ever

In addition, since we're on the subject of Tzeentch, let's talk screamers. If you were clever, you probably could've figured out most of their profile from the burning chariot. 

Melee-wise they're identical, with 3 s6 ap-3 d2 attacks each hitting on 4s. 

However the real juice is everything else - like flamers, they've gained an extra wound and the impressive 3+ save vs ranged (though at the cost of a 6+ save vs melee) and their slashing dive is now much improved:

Now for each model in the screamer unit, you roll a d6 and for each 4+ you deal a mortal to a unit you flew over. 

In addition, if you would prefer to zoom around the battlefield because their base 16" move just isn't sufficient, they can just teleport anywhere 9" away from enemies when they would otherwise advance. Of course, you give up your slashing dive mortals doing so, so be careful."

Flamers are 12"

[Skallagoose]

59 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

More tzeentch:

"

It's Friday, and the votes are in! As you all requested, here's flamers:

The bad news:
- no more mortal wounds stratagem
- more expensive
- smaller unit size (max 6 now)

The good news:
- vastly improved base damage output: d6+2 shots each at s5 ap-2 d1
- increased durability - now flamers are t4 3w, but the real juice is that they have the fabled 3+ save against ranged, though only have a 6+ save against melee
- Flickering Flames still exists - with the increased shots, ap, and strength, +1 to wound is more potent than ever

In addition, since we're on the subject of Tzeentch, let's talk screamers. If you were clever, you probably could've figured out most of their profile from the burning chariot. 

Melee-wise they're identical, with 3 s6 ap-3 d2 attacks each hitting on 4s. 

However the real juice is everything else - like flamers, they've gained an extra wound and the impressive 3+ save vs ranged (though at the cost of a 6+ save vs melee) and their slashing dive is now much improved:

Now for each model in the screamer unit, you roll a d6 and for each 4+ you deal a mortal to a unit you flew over. 

In addition, if you would prefer to zoom around the battlefield because their base 16" move just isn't sufficient, they can just teleport anywhere 9" away from enemies when they would otherwise advance. Of course, you give up your slashing dive mortals doing so, so be careful."

Flamers are 12"

I was hoping the screamers were gonna be a little beefier but the flamers look nice

[Ahzek451]

I was hoping for the same from screamers, but I also get it. Tzeentch is not known for melee, and even a dedicated melee unit is not expected to do wonders. But the real win and focus on them should be the movement and ability to get around the table quickly. To jump on objectives and tank ranged weapons is pretty nice, and to be able to pick off things in the back field and harass some units with a few mortals here and there is pretty decent. I see screamers as simply being really good harassers and objective takers. 

It will be interesting navigating mono-Tzeentch knowing that the shooting game is in your favor but utterly pants in melee, trying to maneuver this element could be a rewarding challenge. I want to see how much of a nuisance horrors will be with split mechanics.  

[Khornestar]

Wow, very surprised that the Tzeentch demons get a better save versus ranged attacks and worse versus melee. An attempt at Balance, as it were.

[Emperor Ming]

3+ unmodifiable save from shooting.

on a troops choice.

I'm not even gonna bother with emojis. 

[Arkhanist]

Well there's always the usual shoot the stabby guys and stab the shooty guys tactic.

[phandaal]

33 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

3+ unmodifiable save from shooting.

on a troops choice.

I'm not even gonna bother with emojis. 

Not to worry, new codexes will have "Bypasses Non-Modifiable Saves" or something. The arms race will continue!

[Closet Skeleton]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

3+ unmodifiable save from shooting.

on a troops choice.

I'm not even gonna bother with emojis. 

A T3 LD6 max size 10 troop choice. That's inferior to armour of contempt power armour from the perspective of most anti-infantry guns.

[jaxom]

I think it's an interesting addition to the game, from both sides. The daemons, individually, are harder to take down (at their preferred save), but units are more prone to losing models from morale. AP doesn't matter, so it offers an interesting balance in army list design compared to Armor of Contempt armies.

[Focslain]

2 hours ago, phandaal said:

Not to worry, new codexes will have "Bypasses Non-Modifiable Saves" or something. The arms race will continue!

Most do already, generally through MW generation. Which makes sense that psykers are the preferred weapon against daemons.

[phandaal]

7 minutes ago, Focslain said:

Most do already, generally through MW generation. Which makes sense that psykers are the preferred weapon against daemons.

Everything generates Mortal Wounds nowadays, not just psykers, so that is far too pedestrian. We need more layers and exceptions.

We have Invulnerable, Ignores Invulnerable, and now Ignores Ignores Invulnerable. The systems can - and must - go deeper. 

[Aramis K]

I like what they're doing with leadership on demons. I'd thought of them as fearless, but this lower leadership represents them being banished by will and intent. Driving them off is as possible as 'killing' them. I like it.

[Lord Marshal]

On 8/3/2022 at 4:32 PM, Evil Eye said:

Genuinely can't remember if I said this or not (apologies if so) but having read the HH 1.0 Daemon army list rules, I kinda wanna take them and combine them with the upcoming Codex. The rules for that were incredible, more or less allowing you to make any daemon you wanted, and the fact it's confined to an old edition of "Space Marines vs Space Marines" is criminal.

Unfortunately it's likely because 30k isn't (wasn't?) forced to adhere to No Model = No Rules and thus the customisation options for Ruinstorm and Militia were retained, though being turned into PDFs and not receiving a Liber does make me wary somebody at GW noticed and dragged them into purgatory. 

[Wugo_Heaving]

8 hours ago, Khornestar said:

Wow, very surprised that the Tzeentch demons get a better save versus ranged attacks and worse versus melee. An attempt at Balance, as it were.

I really like the idea since it incentivises taking them on in combat, but then they'll split into blue horrors right in front of you to potentially bog you down for another round. Nice to see stats being used in a creative way rather than just a plain good or bad save. I wonder if we'll see it on more units in the future or even as game-wide mechanic for 10th?

 

4 hours ago, Aramis K said:

I like what they're doing with leadership on demons. I'd thought of them as fearless, but this lower leadership represents them being banished by will and intent. Driving them off is as possible as 'killing' them. I like it.

I'm really curious to see if there are psychic powers that turn up in Astra Militarum codex that revolve around banishing daemons to give the Guard a little more of a unique source of damage-dealing that other factions don't have. (Although something like that really should be a Grey Knights thing too)

 

[Lord_Ikka]

I think the varied save is interesting, but I'm wondering why Bloodletters got such a buff- +1 to T/S and an extra attack, where the Pink Horrors only got a better BS. T4/S5 Bloodletters does not make me want to fight my friends Khorne army.

[Special Officer Doofy]

24 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

I think the varied save is interesting, but I'm wondering why Bloodletters got such a buff- +1 to T/S and an extra attack, where the Pink Horrors only got a better BS. T4/S5 Bloodletters does not make me want to fight my friends Khorne army.

Pink horrors get 3+ save from shooting and I believe split for free on a 5+, seems balanced. Plague bearers will be T5 with 2W. They are all getting better, but as always one will be the best, points pending.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Putrid Choir

[Ahzek451]

Not much excitement for daemons here it seems. Figured someone would have posted this already: 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/08/khorne-day-codex-chaos-daemons-has-even-better-ways-to-reap-a-cranial-crop/

 

 

Also some stuff GW did not post:

Flesh hound bite:  S:user AP-2 D1. 

Exalted traits for GD are points upgrades. Normal restrictions such as no named characters can have them, only 1 per, etc. pts costs range from more than 10 and less than 50. 
Bloodthirsters get:
1. cap of 8 wounds per phase
2.Count as double wounds for bracketing
3. +1 strength and attacks on charge. 

[Evil Eye]

Oooh, that sounds pretty neat. Interested to see how the manage my boy/girl/indeterminate horror, the Keeper of Secrets!

[Ahzek451]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ekeplx3ys&ab_channel=Wallace

 

 

[KnightofSigismund]

Mother of god… he’s gonna be tough. 
 

[DeStinyFiSh]

Warpstorm details:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/08/12/whip-up-the-storm-of-the-millennium-with-codex-chaos-daemons/