Orange Knight Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) Hello all I have recently come to hear some interesting information pertaining to the year ahead. -10th edition is indeed coming this year, and apparently some information may come to light at Adepticon. -10th edition will be an evolution of the core rules of 9th edition, not a complete re-write. There are massive changes coming to the stratagem system. Streamlining and significant cutbacks - I heard mention of a dozen generic stratagems for use across all factions, and a single unique strat per army. (To me this sounds like the reaction system in 30k) -The Codex chapter supplements are not coming in 9th edition (Fists, Iron Hands, Ultras, etc). They were planned for 9th initially but will now be too close to 10th. Anyways, this all sounded plausible to me. I'm not sure how GW would plan on an evolution of the rules, whilst scrapping all stratagems from the 9th edition books. The unit rules across all faction have been gutted, and their abilities converted to strats. I don't even want to imagine the volume of FAQs and Errata. I made a joke that the codex Space Marine chapters are now the most neglected factions. If the above is true, chapters like the Ultramarines (historically attacked for receiving more support than others) would have been ignored for an entire edition of 40k - this is quite humorous. Additional Rumour Dump from Valrak and other sources dated 7th Feb 2023: >Warhammer 40,000 10th edition is launching June 24th 2023>Starter box is Adeptus Astartes vs Tyranids.>Promotional art will show them as Dark Angels and Hive Fleet Leviathan>Dark Angels will receive a model of Lion El'jonson>Tyranid players will receive a new model called an Apex Swarmlord>Narrative does not appear to be a timeskip but expanding on events elsewhere while the Indomitus Crusade battles the Necrons led by the Silent King. Arks of Omen: The Lion will be the first step in a longform narrative chain tying both galactic conflicts together.>Core rules are streamlined>Psychic Phase and Command Phase are combined>Toughness is now only on datasheets with a [Heavy Armour] keyword ability. E.g Terminators, Rhinos, Dreadnoughts etc. Generic troops now only roll to hit when attacking and save when defending.>Armour Pen. and Invulnerable saves are unchanged.>Crusade is being simplified and behaves closer to Age of Sigmars Path to Glory>Detachments, Battle forging, Stratagems and CP generation have all be simplified or reworked>Game is intended to be faster, with smaller units and a much bigger emphasis on terrain>Along with the start box there will be a new series of terrain intended to scale from small to medium to large scale games>The core rules will be free online with two variants. "Narrative" and "Competitive">There is a codex coming for Dark Admech and one new Xenos race>A second wave of Votann along with a updated codex is expected to launch in September>The way Space Marines will receive a codex and rules for Chapters is changing completely and will be explained in a special White Dwarf releasing in May 2023 and closer to release on the Warhammer Community website>The new edition will also see GW retiring the current range of Texture Paints and they will be replaced with new products using new materials intended to be another Contrast Paint style product to quickly allow beginners in a partnership with 'Screen Products Limited' Edited February 7, 2023 by Orange Knight Muskie, apologist, Vanger and 5 others 7 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcomet Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 There are a lot of places where you can make rules changes, that would make it a 9.5 edition. And moving all abilities back to units would be a good thing. As would removing most strats. Silas7, Djangomatic82, templargdt and 5 others 8 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I'm all for removing strats or greatly reducing them. I feel they do more harm than good as far as balance goes. But I don't think strats are the biggest issue in the game right now, it's the inflated wargear stats (the extra strength, ap and damage sprinkled across every faction) that did the most damage (free wargear at the end of the edition only makes it worse). I would have argued strats and faction specific secondaries were the biggest issues at the beginning of the edition. The good news if any of this pans out besides reduced strats is the core rules stay the same it seems like. Slave to Darkness, Castle Wolfenstein, Maritn and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrindur Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Orange Knight said: The unit rules across all faction have been gutted, and their abilities converted to strats. I don't even want to imagine the volume of FAQs and Errata. Not releasing an FAQ and letting them wait without without stratagems but also without unit abilites until they get a new book 2 years later would be in line for GW But still hope this is true, I really don't like the stratagem system Edited January 25, 2023 by Matrindur WatchCaptainNavar and darkseren1ty 1 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 15 minutes ago, Orange Knight said: I made a joke that the codex Space Marine chapters are now the most neglected factions. If the above is true, chapters like the Ultramarines (historically attacked for receiving more support than others) would have been ignored for an entire edition of 40k - this is quite humorous. Not getting a supplement book doesn't mean they were ignored; they got a rules update in the SM Codex and Ultramarines even got a new named character (Uriel Ventris) during 9th Edition. 12 minutes ago, Redcomet said: There are a lot of places where you can make rules changes, that would make it a 9.5 edition. And moving all abilities back to units would be a good thing. As would removing most strats. I completely agree that unit abilities should be on unit datasheets. Having them as stratagems means only a portion of your units can actually use their core/signature abilities each game (and typically most units don't get to use theirs at all so a handful can use theirs repeatedly). But it's not a simple change to make given how many datasheet amendments it'd require. Aarik, Brother Borgia, Doctor Perils and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 @Halandaar It's all comparative. Perhaps not fully ignored, but when stacked against everything else? Uriel Ventris was a Black Library release. The Imperial Fists, White Scars, Iron Hands, etc received nothing. And the rules are a big deal too - no crusade rules, no updated character profiles, etc Going back to topic - I would be satisfied with a clean up, if it's significant. But if they do pursue this plan, the codex books would not be invalidated "technically" but will not be a complete picture of the rules either. I maintain that scrapping them all would be better, but now I think this will not happen as some are released mere months from the new edition. Craig and Toxichobbit 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Orange Knight said: The unit rules across all faction have been gutted, and their abilities converted to strats. I don’t quite get it. If all the factions are having their strats removed, replaced with universal strats (+1 per faction), how/why would unit rules get gutted and converted to strats as a part of that process? Edited January 25, 2023 by Khornestar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, Khornestar said: I don’t quite get it. If all the factions are having their strats removed, replaced with universal strats (+1 per faction), how/why would unit rules get gutted and converted to strats as a part of that process? No, I meant that it's what happened in 9th edition. For example, the Smoke special rule was taken off from vehicle datasheets and made into a stratagem. If they intend to remove and cut back on most strats in 10th, all these rules will have to be returned to the various datasheets. Mike8404, Khornestar, Naryn and 1 other 2 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apologist Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Thanks for the rumour – interesting to read. While there are bits I'd change, I do quite like the underlying mechanics of 9th, and think stripping that right back is a big step in the right direction from my point of view. Speaking anecdotally, while the pandemic undoubtedly had a big effect on my 40k gaming, it was the cloying layers of additional rules and exceptions that make it feeling daunting to approach – and at worst, a chore to play – for our gaming group. I hope 10th will see things made less complicated. Complexity in 40k should come from actions on the table, not from an unnecessarily complex game engine. LameBeard, Warden-Paints, Aarik and 14 others 17 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, Orange Knight said: No, I meant that it's what happened in 9th edition. For example, the Smoke special rule was taken off from vehicle datasheets and made into a stratagem. If they intend to remove and cut back on most strats in 10th, all these rules will have to be returned to the various datasheets. Roll back to index 8th and add in the new units released since then. That was the last time the game was actually fun. Brother Christopher, 4ndroid, Special Officer Doofy and 4 others 5 1 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shield-Captain Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I always believed that strategems should be purchased before the battle. You start the game with a certain number of strategem “points” to purchase whatever strategems you want and then you’re done. Each one is once per game, and once it’s gone it’s gone. darkseren1ty, Interrogator Stobz, Dried and 8 others 11 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Dunno how they are going to address the main issue, which is crazy rules in certain codexs rather than issues with the core rules Special Officer Doofy, Tymell and Noserenda 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome Fred Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 From the last content validity update Muskie, painting.for.my.sanity, Arbedark and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcomet Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said: Dunno how they are going to address the main issue, which is crazy rules in certain codexs rather than issues with the core rules New codexes for you to buy Orange Knight 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrindur Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Valrak just uploaded a video talking about 10th edition, mainly about SM (apparently Firstborn/Primaris keywords will be gone so both can use the same vehicles) but he again said he heard 10th will be a reset like 8th edition so will be interesting which one will be true. Thought personally I hope the reset rumour will be true since SM not being split between firstborn/primaris would be great. Orange Knight, Marshal Loss, Interrogator Stobz and 9 others 12 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 I hope that Valrak is right, personally, but I was told it's an evolution of the 9th core rules. painting.for.my.sanity 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrindur Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Just now, Orange Knight said: I hope that Valrak is right, personally, but I was told it's an evolution of the 9th core rules. Well an evolution could still mean past codexes are invalidated, don't need completely new rules for that. Could be they wrote themselves into a corner and they have to start over but still don't want to change the rules too much WrathOfTheLion 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 18 minutes ago, Matrindur said: Valrak just uploaded a video talking about 10th edition, mainly about SM (apparently Firstborn/Primaris keywords will be gone so both can use the same vehicles) but he again said he heard 10th will be a reset like 8th edition so will be interesting which one will be true. I'll believe this when I see it, but i suppose there's a chance. Bryan Blaire and Khornestar 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrawlingCleaner Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 13 minutes ago, Matrindur said: Valrak just uploaded a video talking about 10th edition, mainly about SM (apparently Firstborn/Primaris keywords will be gone so both can use the same vehicles) but he again said he heard 10th will be a reset like 8th edition so will be interesting which one will be true. Thought personally I hope the reset rumour will be true since SM not being split between firstborn/primaris would be great. 2 minutes ago, Orange Knight said: I hope that Valrak is right, personally, but I was told it's an evolution of the 9th core rules. To be fair, there's a possibility it's both. If Strats are eliminated or reduced, units would likely need updating and other army rules too, I would imagine they'd have to return to Indexes rather than FAQ large chunks of Codexes to be non-useable. Emperor Ming 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandaal Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Removing all but a single strategem from every codex would require significant reworks. Wargear, relics, unit abilities, points costs, all done with their codex strategems in mind. Comes down to how you want to define a reset. Is it a 100% redo of every rule, or is it just a sufficiently widespread set of changes? From the rumors so far, 10th ed will at least meet that lower bar. Aarik and Emperor Ming 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Moving Strategums special rules into unit abilities is just renaming the problem rather than solving anything. Units that have separate stats and weapons shouldn't need many or any special rules to differentiate them to other units. I wonder if GW will do something with the stats though? Perhaps give them wider ranges? I doubt it, but I'd like it if Marines were T6, Orks T5, Humans T3, Lasguns S4, Bolters S5 etc... Interesting what GW does but really I think it'll be quite the soft touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I just hope they increase table size a bit in 10th. Captain Idaho, Dark Shepherd, Interrogator Stobz and 6 others 8 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said: Moving Strategums special rules into unit abilities is just renaming the problem rather than solving anything. Units that have separate stats and weapons shouldn't need many or any special rules to differentiate them to other units. I wonder if GW will do something with the stats though? Perhaps give them wider ranges? I doubt it, but I'd like it if Marines were T6, Orks T5, Humans T3, Lasguns S4, Bolters S5 etc... Interesting what GW does but really I think it'll be quite the soft touch. I heard (2nd hand, so take that as you will) that GW have indeed become aware of the issues with 40k as it currently stands, and that they are aware of the sentiments of many players. Unfortunately the gears and mechanisms turn slowly, and any significant changes they come up with are probably years away. What gets released is typically 2 years behind what they are working on at any given time. It's why I have become more cynical about 10th edition - I believe that the real change needed probably won't arrive until 11th. It's why I believe what I was told about the edition being an evolution of 9th. Now, as others have pointed out, the changes could still be significant and just because the core rules aren't changed completely the various codex books could still be invalidated. Captain Idaho, Mike8404 and Inquisitor Eisenhorn 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Eye Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 15 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said: Moving Strategums special rules into unit abilities is just renaming the problem rather than solving anything. Units that have separate stats and weapons shouldn't need many or any special rules to differentiate them to other units. I wonder if GW will do something with the stats though? Perhaps give them wider ranges? I doubt it, but I'd like it if Marines were T6, Orks T5, Humans T3, Lasguns S4, Bolters S5 etc... Interesting what GW does but really I think it'll be quite the soft touch. I feel like stratagems that should be wargear/unit rules being made as such is a good start at least. I always thought the "Use CP to remember your Lictor has feeder tendrils" system was kind of silly. I'd definitely be up for a wider stat range though; T6 seems a bit much for a stock Marine but T5 2W would be reasonable. I'd put Orks and Sisters at T4 and Guard at T3 myself. I'd actually be tempted to tone down weapon stats a bit though; S5 Fleshborers is ridiculous frankly! Mike8404 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitor Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I know a lot of people wouldn't be for it, but perhaps a more AoS style datasheet where all the rolls are baked into the unit itself. Means you don't have to worry about wargear so much, things would mostly be cosmetic. Devastators having a 3+/3+/3/-2 for instance would give them a different role from bolters 3+/3+/1/-1. Bake abilities into the datasheet but I guess they don't want the games to be too similar. DesuVult and Inquisitor Eisenhorn 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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