Wh40k 10th Edition Datasheet Changes

[GenerationTerrorist]

These could very well just be the data sheets that will come with the starter set. So doubt they have any "full" data sheets done yet, with all the options.

[WrathOfTheLion]

4 hours ago, Antarius said:

I get how you feel, but this is just the nature of the beast. We won’t really know a whole lot before the new edition is actually released (or, I guess, very close to that date). The facts we do get are really just snippets that we can use to speculate, as the only context we have for them are our own assumptions (some of which are based on the current edition, some of which are personal assumptions/wishes/fears).

 

I don’t say this to disagree with you, just in case that isn’t clear. Just pointing out that if people don’t like speculating, the best strategy is probably to tune out until June (something I’m trying to do myself, as far as possible at least). Because everything we think we know until then is going to be very speculative.

I don't mind the speculating, but that topic in particular devolved to squabble and not any discussion of mechanics, etc. So I'd rather that one in particular got put to rest a bit with some more meaty information.

 

---

 

As for the datasheets, there is a lot of information on them, but a lot less to have to search for elsewhere. The warscroll cards they use for Sigmar are not small, they're quite sizable and easy to read.

Edited April 6, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[TheMawr]

37 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

I would think its safe to assume that the June mini will be related to 10th, either Termagaunt or what ever the flamethrower marine will be called.

 

On the Datacard side of things, remember, all we've seen is jpegs. There could be things written on the back (or it could be a nice picture of the unit ala AoS). We won't know for certain till either they leak, or warhammer fest.

 

Actually the one wich has both termagants and ripperswarms from the presentation is an actual card scan. We still havent seen the back though.

 

But as said before, these are the profilecards for use in the game, not the index/codex datasheets wich you would use to build your army before the game. I think the latter are not too different than what we have now. The cards do not replace the books, they supplement them.

[Remain_Indoors]

29 minutes ago, GenerationTerrorist said:

These could very well just be the data sheets that will come with the starter set. So doubt they have any "full" data sheets done yet, with all the options.

 

Given that Dataslates for every army are due the same day as 10th edition releasing, one would hope a large portion of them are already done. Otherwise it's going to be a real rush job.

[WrathOfTheLion]

10 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

 

Actually the one wich has both termagants and ripperswarms from the presentation is an actual card scan. We still havent seen the back though.

 

But as said before, these are the profilecards for use in the game, not the index/codex datasheets wich you would use to build your army before the game. I think the latter are not too different than what we have now. The cards do not replace the books, they supplement them.

I think the cards actually pretty much replace the book as far as practical use in gaming. For the Sigmar ones, they have the full profile on the card and if you're using them, you don't use the profile in the book.

 

For like points costs and all, and even squad sizes, those will probably all be a separate chart, as that information isn't needed once the list is built.

[Captain Idaho]

It raises a lot of questions... if we just need the cards to play the game, how does points and army construction really work.

 

Man can't someone just leak it all already? June is years away.

[Handsome Fred]

3 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

It raises a lot of questions... if we just need the cards to play the game, how does points and army construction really work.

 

Man can't someone just leak it all already? June is years away.

 

The cards aren't essential, are just the datasheet from the dex stand alone. The points will be a d1 pdf (either with the codex and the index).
Anyway at warhammer fest we will recive all answers, maybe only the index will be a secret until mid june

[DesuVult]

I feel like the cards are only needed to play once you hit the table.  They are there so you don't have to reference your codex when looking at a datasheet.  I think what we are seeing are the game cards rather than the codex entries.

[WrathOfTheLion]

9 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

It raises a lot of questions... if we just need the cards to play the game, how does points and army construction really work.

 

Man can't someone just leak it all already? June is years away.

The cards aren't necessary, they're just essentially equivalent to what would be in your Codex. For practical gaming purposes, they're superior as you can filter down to the ones you're actually using and don't need to flip through a book.

 

Basically you'd have the cards, your Codex open to your army rules and your BRB handy to reference any core rules. If you don't have the cards, then the codex would be open, but you'd have to flip to each unit page if you need to reference something.

 

Points and unit size values would be in a separate chart you use when building your list, but both of those are wholly unnecessary when you actually show up at the table. You've already decided you're taking say 8 tactical marines, they're in your list, that the squad is from 5 - 10 is now irrelevant information.

[jaxom]

56 minutes ago, DesuVult said:

I feel like the cards are only needed to play once you hit the table.  They are there so you don't have to reference your codex when looking at a datasheet.  I think what we are seeing are the game cards rather than the codex entries.

 

50 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

The cards aren't necessary, they're just essentially equivalent to what would be in your Codex. For practical gaming purposes, they're superior as you can filter down to the ones you're actually using and don't need to flip through a book.

 

Basically you'd have the cards, your Codex open to your army rules and your BRB handy to reference any core rules. If you don't have the cards, then the codex would be open, but you'd have to flip to each unit page if you need to reference something.

Stream said the codex entries have the same info as the cards (ditto for detachments and faction rules), you can play with a codex and no cards. As @WrathOfTheLion notes, the cards primarily reduce page flipping. The other benefit is that the cards+faction+detachment combo means one does not have to lug around around whole book (including lore sections etc) if one does not want to do so.

[Arikel]

16 minutes ago, jaxom said:

 

Stream said the codex entries have the same info as the cards (ditto for detachments and faction rules), you can play with a codex and no cards. As @WrathOfTheLion notes, the cards primarily reduce page flipping. The other benefit is that the cards+faction+detachment combo means one does not have to lug around around whole book (including lore sections etc) if one does not want to do so.

Yep, print out rules(2pages) datasheets(maybe a dozen or so max?) and the core rules and sposed to be good to go

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Thats assuming that we're seeing the full datasheet. They could have another section laying out squad sizes/arming/upgrade options.

 

We also haven't seen points costs on the sheet, which may indicate that they are keeping them in a separate table/sheet, or that there are more to the data-sheets than currently shown. 

What we have seen so far are not datasheets for the indexes/codexes, they’re data cards for convenient use in game.

[Shinespider]

Yeah, I have to assume each unit will have a "How to build this unit" entry, separate from the 'Card,' which outlines unit size, weapon choice, etc. The card is all you need at the table itself, but during list-building there will be more. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

13 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

What we have seen so far are not datasheets for the indexes/codexes, they’re data cards for convenient use in game.

They'll be the exact same, there will be no difference between the card datasheet and the one in the codex.

 

If they follow the existing format for other systems, they are going to be bigger than those tiny strat cards they sell now, and each card will fold open to have all the rules in one spread.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

They'll be the exact same, there will be no difference between the card datasheet and the one in the codex.

 

If they follow the existing format for other systems, they are going to be bigger than those tiny strat cards they sell now, and each card will fold open to have all the rules in one spread.

There’s no need to waste size and ink which equal money to put that information on the cards. 
the cards are intended for use during the game. During a game things like points and who can take what is unnecessary to playing, so what motivation does GW have to spend more money by putting this stuff on the cards?

[WrathOfTheLion]

7 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

There’s no need to waste size and ink which equal money to put that information on the cards. 
the cards are intended for use during the game. During a game things like points and who can take what is unnecessary to playing, so what motivation does GW have to spend more money by putting this stuff on the cards?

I think that stuff won't be on the datasheet at all, even in the codex. I suspect loadout, points and squad size will be in a separate section, handled during army construction.

 

Loadout choices may still be on or near it, but the latter two almost certainly are stricken entirely.

Edited April 6, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Lemondish]

4 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Unit sizes and not knowing who's armed with what

 

That info really should be on the datasheet right?

Why? What possible purpose could this serve within the game? Those are items you expect when building your list, not playing.

[Cpt.Danjou]

Wait, what? So with the cards, I wont be forced to carry all books? What about my workout? I need to carry all those books so my muscles don't regress back and I become a thin nerd again, and not look like a steroid pumped body builder. Yes I am joking! 

 

I like the cards idea a lot, until they start to change around with rules/costs/stratagems, and we need to buy more cards. That was made me leave Malifaux, which all stats/rules are on cards, which you get when you buy the modells. But Wyrd shot themselves in the foot when they released new cards every year, making modells obsolete, and even destroying factions. 

 

Cpt.Danjou

[Special Officer Doofy]

I like the cards. They won't have point costs or unit size or tell you how much of the wargear you can use (restrictions, like 1 Heavy weapon per 10 models). But all of that is done at the list building level and you don't need during the game. Also, datasheets tend to not change from a balance update (wargear stats and unit stats), maybe just a keyword added for balance. They should be good for awhile, I don't care if I have to write something like "shock assault" on it part way through if it means my unit sucks less haha. The index/codex will give the load out restrictions, point costs and model counts. Eventually I would like to go pure digital that auto updates for the purchase price and not a subscription (buying all the silly rules every 3-4 years is as close to a subscription as I want to get).

[Lemondish]

20 minutes ago, Cpt.Danjou said:

Wait, what? So with the cards, I wont be forced to carry all books? What about my workout? I need to carry all those books so my muscles don't regress back and I become a thin nerd again, and not look like a steroid pumped body builder.

Well, you're in luck: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/01/build-steely-muscle-and-develop-an-iron-will-with-the-latest-warhammer-fitness-innovation/

[Captain Idaho]

So when everyone was arguing that the cards are amazing because they're going to reduce bloat and make the game quicker, they really meant they're optional extra that doesn't have the rest of the information we need to play the game?

 

Cool. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

3 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

So when everyone was arguing that the cards are amazing because they're going to reduce bloat and make the game quicker, they really meant they're optional extra that doesn't have the rest of the information we need to play the game?

 

Cool. 

 

Much like a majority of the codex is not needed for the game either, yes.

[TheMawr]

2 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

So when everyone was arguing that the cards are amazing because they're going to reduce bloat and make the game quicker, they really meant they're optional extra that doesn't have the rest of the information we need to play the game?

 

Cool. 

 

Those that were arguing that the cards are amazing used the argument that they dont have to page trough the book during a game.

Army construction rarely happens during the game ( I have to say rarely, because the one game of WFB I ever played the other player seemed to be constructing his army during the game :p or maybe cheating is the better word.)

 

I dont think I have seen anything akin to "Amazing we get datasheet cards, that means less bloat."

[Lemondish]

22 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

So when everyone was arguing that the cards are amazing because they're going to reduce bloat and make the game quicker, they really meant they're optional extra that doesn't have the rest of the information we need to play the game?

 

Cool. 

Nobody actually said that.

 

What people are actually excited about is the fact that you use only the cards that are necessary for your army that you probably should be building prior to the game. You don't flip through a Codex filled with units you aren't using. Your detachment rules are on a two-page spread, so you don't flip through a Codex filled with stragems, traits, psychic powers, relics, and upgrades you won't be using in your match. Outside your detachment ability, and the universal special rules that everybody will be using, all the abilities that your unit has are on the card. You won't be referring to supplements found in other books alongside your Codex.

 

List building doesn't happen at the table, usually. So why clutter your game time resource with frivolous unnecessary detail?

 

Cool, right?

[Karhedron]

16 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Idea of locking unit size of plague marine on 7 is ridiculous. Which would make this unit cannot escape opponent blast advantages, and make DG players spend more points on filling battleline slots than WE, TS(and future EC). That's unfair.

 

Battleline is not the same as Troops in 9th. They are not a tax and you don't need to bring a minimum number to make your army legal.

 

Instead, Battleline are exempt from the Rule of 3 (you can field up to 6 of each sheet for these units instead).

Edited April 6, 2023 by Karhedron