Wh40k 10th Edition Datasheet Changes

[Khornestar]

I am tentatively excited and optimistic for this coming edition, though the salt from buying codex: World Eaters does sting. Oh well, I knew the rumors about 10th coming and bought it anyway. It will grace my shelf alongside traitor legions and khorne daemonkin.

 

What I am a little iffy on is the free rules part. Technically the core rules for 9th have been free this entire time, but they’re just the basic mechanics of the game, still requiring “purchase” of the advanced rules, which is really where most of us are playing day 1 anyhow. I hope it’s not a repeat of this situation, though free indices would still be a nice start.

 

I really like the notion of psykers just having a shooting attack to represent witch fire powers. Now, is this gonna be like 6th/7th(?) where they still had to manifest the power, then they get that shooting attack? Or similar enough to now, just replace shooting attack with mortal wounds, I guess. I always thought it was a bit weak to spend the points on a psyker, choose offensive powers at the cost of defensive ones, then potentially just not get to use the power because you failed the roll. Luck of the dice, I guess, and similar story to defensive powers, now that I think about  (but with defensive powers, once you manifest, it’s done, you aren’t rolling again)it. Long winded way of saying maybe not everything should be a “sure thing” in a game of dice, but a psyker with no ability to increase the odds of success always feels like too much of a gamble compared to reroll aura or something that’s just on. Very curious what they’ll be like in 10th.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Khornestar

[Dr_Ruminahui]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:52 PM, Mr. Oddity said:

If I'm remembering correctly (been going through a lot of threads here and Reddit lately lol), it was stated that actions like this will be limited to one per type of unit to encourage diversity via diminishing returns. So you can have multiple units with the skulking horrors ability, but only one of those units can use it per turn.

 

I hoping that there was some sort of limitation, as I could see it being frustrating if one action by one of your units causes a large number of reactions.  Not sure if restricting it to one of each type/name per turn is the right answer, as that seems like it would be overly punitive of forces that multiples of thematic units, such as a tyranid army with several units of termigants.  For me the right balance (in my head, at least) is that any particular action can only cause one reaction - so, for example, if your opponent had one unit move within range of 2 units of termigants, only one could reaction move, but then if your opponent then moves a second unit within range of the other (non-reacted) termigant unit, it could then take its reaction.

 

Likewise, if a unit moved in range of 2 units with different reactions (say, a termigant unit and a hypothetical unit with a shooting reaction) only one of them would be able to react to the unit's movements. To me that seems a more balanced way to do it, because I think more frustrating than everyone having the same reaction is everyone reacting (albeit with different reactions) to the same trigger.

 

Anyway, something I will look forward to with great interest to find out.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Lord Blacksteel]

One concern brought up in a Grey Knights FB group: If psychic powers are treated as weapon attacks will you have to choose between shooting that storm bolter or firing off a smite? Or will a unit be able to do both? We don't know yet but it's something to look for as more details are released.

 

Also with weapons in general will we be limited to one at a time, use all, or mix and match up to a certain number? Some characters can have multiple melee weapons and then there are units like Vanguard Vets where a single lightning claw is an option as well as paired lightning claws - it will be interesting to see how they write that up.

[MasterDeath]

Just now, Lord Blacksteel said:

One concern brought up in a Grey Knights FB group: If psychic powers are treated as weapon attacks will you have to choose between shooting that storm bolter or firing off a smite? Or will a unit be able to do both? We don't know yet but it's something to look for as more details are released.

 

Also with weapons in general will we be limited to one at a time, use all, or mix and match up to a certain number? Some characters can have multiple melee weapons and then there are units like Vanguard Vets where a single lightning claw is an option as well as paired lightning claws - it will be interesting to see how they write that up.

I would assume the leader smites, the rest shootes. For the rest: Have a look a AoS. It uses that system for a while now.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Lord Blacksteel said:

One concern brought up in a Grey Knights FB group: If psychic powers are treated as weapon attacks will you have to choose between shooting that storm bolter or firing off a smite? Or will a unit be able to do both? We don't know yet but it's something to look for as more details are released.

 

We will have to wait and see but currently models with 2 or more weapons can shoot all of them. There aren't a huge number but there are examples like Inceptors and Desolators are infantry who can shoot multiple weapons per turn.

[jaxom]

On 3/24/2023 at 7:38 PM, Dr_Ruminahui said:

For me the right balance (in my head, at least) is that any particular action can only cause one reaction - so, for example, if your opponent had one unit move within range of 2 units of termigants, only one could reaction move, but then if your opponent then moves a second unit within range of the other (non-reacted) termigant unit, it could then take its reaction.

I also hope that is the case. It makes sense, to me, that once unit B is reacting, then any other unit would be reacting to unit B reacting,  and not the original action of unit A which caused unit B to react. That's how HH works with a few specific exceptions.

[ThePenitentOne]

8 hours ago, MasterDeath said:

I would assume the leader smites, the rest shootes. 

 

Fast. Hasslefree. Efficient. Easy to balance.

 

And so boring it might as well not exist at all. The new psychic rules are one of the things I am most worried about- it seems like there's zero player choice about psychic powers; some particularly powerful psykers might have more than one power... But every power that you have, regardless of how many you get, are all chosen for you. Not a good look for "your dudes."

 

I'm not keen on the idea that bespoke "detachments" are a part of the swap in, swap out system. It could work if the detachments are varied enough, or if there's some choice. Like I don't want to be told that if I want to field Argent Shroud, I must use an Outrider-type detachment because that most closely matches the fluff. I always felt like the number and type(s) of detachments you would send to engagement would depend on the engagement, not on the faction's fluff.

 

Even in the case of DA- Ravenwing armies/ detachments DO exist, but they aren't appropriate for every mission, and when they aren't, either the Deathwing or the Greenwing are sent instead. Sometimes combined forces would be sent too. And of course, the DA options WILL be that nuanced because Marines. But I think I'm right to worry about "In Order to play Order of Our Martyred Lady, you must field Junith Eruita" or whatever.

 

Again, there's an equal chance that it turns it well- it's really too early to tell.

[Scribe]

33 minutes ago, ThePenitentOne said:

I'm not keen on the idea that bespoke "detachments" are a part of the swap in, swap out system.

 

Pretty likely thats the case, especially before we get the Codex books. Considering how free the army building likely is without a FOC?

[MDops]

It's interesting that they decided to show off those particular data sheets, ones with minimal upgrade options and the ability to go "Hey we can keep it clean and streamline"

 

Would have preferred to see something like a captian or a Tau commander who had/has access to 75% of the armory but that would have spoilt more than what they might have wanted to show off.

[MasterDeath]

Options will get lost in translation. Its something GW made the playerbase get used to for a while now. Power Points, Free Equipment, unification of Power weapons for csm. Look at AoS. There is no armory.

I for my part hail our new PP Overlords 

[Gorgoff]

On 3/24/2023 at 2:37 PM, Khornestar said:

I am tentatively excited and optimistic for this coming edition, though the salt from buying codex: World Eaters does sting. Oh well, I knew the rumors about 10th coming and bought it anyway. It will grace my shelf alongside traitor legions and khorne daemonkin.

 

What I am a little iffy on is the free rules part. Technically the core rules for 9th have been free this entire time, but they’re just the basic mechanics of the game, still requiring “purchase” of the advanced rules, which is really where most of us are playing day 1 anyhow. I hope it’s not a repeat of this situation, though free indices would still be a nice start.

 

I really like the notion of psykers just having a shooting attack to represent witch fire powers. Now, is this gonna be like 6th/7th(?) where they still had to manifest the power, then they get that shooting attack? Or similar enough to now, just replace shooting attack with mortal wounds, I guess. I always thought it was a bit weak to spend the points on a psyker, choose offensive powers at the cost of defensive ones, then potentially just not get to use the power because you failed the roll. Luck of the dice, I guess, and similar story to defensive powers, now that I think about  (but with defensive powers, once you manifest, it’s done, you aren’t rolling again)it. Long winded way of saying maybe not everything should be a “sure thing” in a game of dice, but a psyker with no ability to increase the odds of success always feels like too much of a gamble compared to reroll aura or something that’s just on. Very curious what they’ll be like in 10th.

 

 

I can tell you that they will have powers which just go off and some you have to roll for and some you may roll to get the better version of it.

I know that because that is exactly how they changed the psykers in the new Horus Heresy edition which came out this year and I bet this is what they do in 40k as well.

 

Same with reactions. You'll probably see core reactions everyone has (for example: you move into X inches of my units? Now I react and let them move directly away from you) and faction specific. Again this would make sense.

 

@MasterDeath

Quote

Options will get lost in translation. Its something GW made the playerbase get used to for a while now. Power Points, Free Equipment, unification of Power weapons for 

I assume that as well.

You get to olay the models as they come out of their boxes.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Gorgoff

[jimbo1701]

Perhaps the codexes will bring options to swap out psychic powers?

[Closet Skeleton]

In Age of Sigmar there are both picked spells and datasheet spells so I don't see the problem.

 

We had one unified power weapon from 3rd-5th so that'll be fine. Most of those choices aren't interesting anyway and just limit modeling options to whatever's statistically obviously superior.

[Sarges]

1 hour ago, jimbo1701 said:

Perhaps the codexes will bring options to swap out psychic powers?

 

This made me think that they'll keep their promise of needing only one spread of rules by progressively decreasing the font size with each book.

[Gorgoff]

24 minutes ago, Sarges said:

 

This made me think that they'll keep their promise of needing only one spread of rules by progressively decreasing the font size with each book.

"Now ready for preorder: The GW magnifying Glass. Only 100$"

[Halandaar]

56 minutes ago, Closet Skeleton said:

In Age of Sigmar there are both picked spells and datasheet spells so I don't see the problem.

 

Yep, Wizards always know the 2 core spells (a bit like Smite in 40k) and then have one or more spells on their card which are the default spell every caster of this type knows. 

 

They then get to pick a spell from any spell lore they have access to in their battletome as part of the same process as selecting the AoS equivalents to warlord traits, artifacts and litanies, and more spells can be obtained by various means that vary from book to book and wizard to wizard.

 

I'm expecting to see this manifested (pun intended) in 40K as Smite being on the psykers datasheet along with a default power known by that class of psyker (so all Librarians will know one, all Sorcerers, all Warlocks and so on). Then when the Codexes come out, they'll be able to pick powers from the psychic disciplines as part of their army rules just like is the case in AoS. After all, they need to get you to buy the Codexes somehow and the way to do it (given the datasheets themselves are free, like AoS Warscrolls) is to put the army abilities in there.

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Halandaar

[ZeroWolf]

I concur, I think there will be options for psykers, even if not straight away.

I hope Valrak is right in theorising that they may have demo games of tenth edition at WarhammerFest as that would lay most concerns to bed (for better or ill).

[Noserenda]

If every faction has a two page spread I can see some psychic powers being an option for relevant factions, it's gotten well out of hand the last few years with like, every chapter of marines having half a dozen bespoke powers, meaning the psychic factions need a dozen etc etc, but most of them are hot garbage.

[WrathOfTheLion]

If they can take down the psychic powers, that'd be fine. I'd expect with the 'one in, one out' thing they speak of, you'll trade the core SM powers for the Interromancy powers in DA for instance, not getting both, if there are still faction psychic powers. There's no reason a DA librarian should have like 2 or 3 psychic disciplines.

 

I do expect a lot of the datasheets will get hit, smacked with only being able to take what's in the kit, with a few exceptions. Some factions, like Chaos Space Marines, have already been through that trial of fire and I expect to be mostly unaffected for that reason.

Edited March 28, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion
punctuation

[phandaal]

Psyker abilities in general need reworks. Rolling abilities into other phases and streamlining power selection is a good start. Hope they are also toning back the mortal wound mechanic while they are at it.

[Quantum]

No mention of number of models per unit on the datacard. Or point cost.

 

I assume that has simply been edited out from these teasers to avoid spoilers? I cannot imagine these will be removed from the datacards when the whole ideas is that all relevant information about the unit is on them.

[Emperor Ming]

8 minutes ago, Quantum said:

No mention of number of models per unit on the datacard. Or point cost.

 

I assume that has simply been edited out from these teasers to avoid spoilers? I cannot imagine these will be removed from the datacards when the whole ideas is that all relevant information about the unit is on them.

Its strange isn't it, because this would mean more looking up stuff and refencing

[Cactus]

That's only looking up stuff when building your army though. In gameplay the number of models is indicated by the number of models. I assume squad sizes will be listed wherever the points values are, and this will be in addition to the 'one page' faction rules.

[Handsome Fred]

22 minutes ago, Quantum said:

No mention of number of models per unit on the datacard. Or point cost.

 

I assume that has simply been edited out from these teasers to avoid spoilers? I cannot imagine these will be removed from the datacards when the whole ideas is that all relevant information about the unit is on them.

 

The cost will be a separated free pdf (same for codex, no more cost inside)

[Emperor Ming]

I wonder if that means power levels will be gone completely and itl just be points