Wh40k 10th Edition Datasheet Changes

[Interrogator Stobz]

I agree, it will likely be the Faction/Detachment rules that have any changes that people get for their precious.

Now it likely won't be what everyone wants, but it will be what we deserve. Lolz

[Arikel]

1 hour ago, The Emperors Champion22 said:

i dont think that you really need to worry, each codex will probably have rules that allow major subfactions to feel unique, especially if they have dedicated units. and if it doesn't happen then we cry on online message boards!

 

From what we can see on the terminator Datasheet, it specifies a faction rule  called Oaths of Moment, which is noted as the space marines faction rule, and the faction keyword is Adeptus Astartes. Using the one in, one out philosophy, I would speculate each major space marine subfaction getting their own Faction Rule and Keyword that replaces the oaths of moment abilty and the adeptus astartes keyword, most likely for Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves, as well as having their various unique units that wouldn't be available to a different space marine faction. It is possible other major chapters get their own rule as well, but the ones mentioned are the only ones who have received continuous support over all the editions beyond Unique Characters.

 

 

 

 

[Arkangilos]

On 4/3/2023 at 12:54 PM, jaxom said:

I feel like this could be said for a lot of units which aren't special characters, but are described as rare in lore. To repeat an unfunny joke from the past year, apparently it's faster to train up Sanguinary Guard than it is to train up Assault Marines.

Agreed, but that could be fixed by making those units require a character (generic or named), and 0-1.

 

Like for a command/honor guard squad you need a company commander, or chapter master. 

 

For a death company squad you need a chaplain or Sanguinary Priest. You get one DC squad per. 
 

For servitors you need a tech marine, and you get one per TM.

[Vanger]

23 minutes ago, Arikel said:

 

From what we can see on the terminator Datasheet, it specifies a faction rule  called Oaths of Moment, which is noted as the space marines faction rule, and the faction keyword is Adeptus Astartes. Using the one in, one out philosophy, I would speculate each major space marine subfaction getting their own Faction Rule and Keyword that replaces the oaths of moment abilty and the adeptus astartes keyword, most likely for Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves, as well as having their various unique units that wouldn't be available to a different space marine faction. It is possible other major chapters get their own rule as well, but the ones mentioned are the only ones who have received continuous support over all the editions beyond Unique Characters.

 

 

You are likely to be wrong in your assumption. In the WarCon article "How Army Building Works in the New Edition of Warhammer 40,000" they say, that first you select your Faction, in our case Adeptus Astartes, then you select your Detachment. Detachment is your Sub-Faction and/or AoR rolled into one:

"Instead of choosing a subfaction or constructing your own, you now choose a single set of Detachment rules for your whole army. These include special abilities, Enhancements, Stratagems, and unit restrictions. "

"Your faction gives you the Oath of Moment army rule (more on this next week!) while your Detachment gives you access to six unique Stratagems – on top of the core group in the main rules – as well as four exclusive Enhancements for your Space Marine characters. It also bags you the Combat Doctrines ability, which allows you to pick from three powerful doctrines during your Command phase."

 

So based on that Oath of Moment is the new Angels of Death.

 

Also it's stated that "Detachment choice will very rarely be tied to an army colour scheme." so there probably will be some detachments, which are specific to certain armies. Raven-/Deathwing formations would be a sure bet for that.

 

Anyway, today afternoon we will know more.

 

 

[Arikel]

15 minutes ago, Vanger said:

 

 

Anyway, today afternoon we will know more.

 

 

Eager to find out myself.  We will soon find out how much rules support they provide for differences between the major space marine subfactions. I get the feeling they do wish to limit the amount of attention given to space marines compared to what the’ve had in the past from multiple codexes to a singular one.
 

Faction keyword and a singular faction rule would be one way to do that, with the keyword possibly opening up unique enhancements, stratagems and units, removing the original ones, all the while still using the same detachments as other Astartes.

 

That could fit all in one singular codex, even if they do something for all the First Founding plus BT for a total of 10. 
 

I for one don’t really think marines need much more than that. I find the game as a whole suffers due to too much focus on loyalist space marines in general. There are so many other cool armies who have been in the shadows for ages.

 

I am hoping that with this reboot in 10th, and Horus Heresy drawing some of the attention of those looking for hot and heavy marine on marine action, that the focus can be expanded a bit to include others.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

The thought on characters unlocking build paths or changes to profiles or abilities is good, but not special unique characters.

 

One thing we aren't at all in the loop on and which came up big time in the preview is the warlord. 

 

What if it's simply whatever faction you pick for your warlord drops keywords down to your marines as an example to give them additional changes?

 

Simple enough and isn't tied to any specific character to get specific army bonuses. 

 

 

[MagicHat]

8 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

It could be there's a just a separate profile for the sergeant, but I think we'd need to see a couple more datasheets to get a good read on that.

 

If I recall correctly, in AoS, warscrolls sometimes have a rule saying the unit leader gets a bonus A.

Could be the datasheet will have a special rule: "Sergeants have 1 more A in melee/1 more bolter shot/hits better" or whatever.

 

Terminator sergeant is the only member with a sword so might have 1 A extra as standard.

8 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

It could be there's a just a separate profile for the sergeant, but I think we'd need to see a couple more datasheets to get a good read on that.

 

If I recall correctly, in AoS, warscrolls sometimes have a rule saying the unit leader gets a bonus A.

Could be the datasheet will have a special rule: "Sergeants have 1 more A in melee/1 more bolter shot/hits better" or whatever.

 

Terminator sergeant is the only member with a sword so might have 1 A extra as standard.

[Captain Idaho]

Datasheets don't have the unit sizes on nor pointels costs, so I suspect we'll see datasheets as rules and list building is basically the points costs page, with units saying they're sized at 5-10 models at XX points per model.

 

Got to be right?

[Orange Knight]

Just now, Captain Idaho said:

Datasheets don't have the unit sizes on nor pointels costs, so I suspect we'll see datasheets as rules and list building is basically the points costs page, with units saying they're sized at 5-10 models at XX points per model.

 

Got to be right?

 

Yes I think so.

 

We'll probably get a unit min-max number of models, followed by the cost per model.

 

I expect some wargear might have an additional cost, but that most will be free.

Something like the Cyclone Missile Launcher or a Multi Melta needs to be pointed appropriately.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Maybe. However, I'm thinking we might see something similar to Sigmar's reinforcement system. Instead of buying individual models, you buy them in squads. So Aggressors you can have a squad of 3, 6, etc. Intercessors 5 or 10.

 

Currently in Sigmar you have a certain amount of units per battle size that you can reinforce in this way, and while I'm not sure that 40K will go that far, the above method is how Boarding Actions currently work, so there is some DNA for it already.

 

It isn't my favorite method. I'd like to be able to take Khorn units in groups of 8, for example, but it fits my current expectations.

[Orange Knight]

Hmmm that is possible, but I think they'll want to be more granular.

 

Even their promotional images are showing images of 5 man Inceptor units. Remember that Blast is still a keyword, so unit size granularity is a legitimate decision for players to make.

[RolandTHTG]

6 hours ago, Vanger said:

 

You are likely to be wrong in your assumption. In the WarCon article "How Army Building Works in the New Edition of Warhammer 40,000" they say, that first you select your Faction, in our case Adeptus Astartes, then you select your Detachment. Detachment is your Sub-Faction and/or AoR rolled into one:

"Instead of choosing a subfaction or constructing your own, you now choose a single set of Detachment rules for your whole army. These include special abilities, Enhancements, Stratagems, and unit restrictions. "

"Your faction gives you the Oath of Moment army rule (more on this next week!) while your Detachment gives you access to six unique Stratagems – on top of the core group in the main rules – as well as four exclusive Enhancements for your Space Marine characters. It also bags you the Combat Doctrines ability, which allows you to pick from three powerful doctrines during your Command phase."

 

So based on that Oath of Moment is the new Angels of Death.

 

Also it's stated that "Detachment choice will very rarely be tied to an army colour scheme." so there probably will be some detachments, which are specific to certain armies. Raven-/Deathwing formations would be a sure bet for that.

 

Anyway, today afternoon we will know more.

 

 

Yep. I suspect that the special chapters will have unique tweaks to Oath of Moment, while still keeping the name of the ability so the data sheet doesn't change. 

Even for Ravenwing/Deathwing, I suspect that they could still fit in a Outrider/First Company detachment respectively, there just needs to be a line that the respective keyword can be taken in that detachment even if not otherwise eligible. 

[jaxom]

7 hours ago, Arkangilos said:

Agreed, but that could be fixed by making those units require a character (generic or named), and 0-1.

 

Like for a command/honor guard squad you need a company commander, or chapter master. 

 

For a death company squad you need a chaplain or Sanguinary Priest. You get one DC squad per. 
 

For servitors you need a tech marine, and you get one per TM.

Could, yeah. Seems unlikely though from what we've seen of the rules for assembling an army.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, Hellex_The_Thanatar said:

The thought on characters unlocking build paths or changes to profiles or abilities is good, but not special unique characters.

 

One thing we aren't at all in the loop on and which came up big time in the preview is the warlord. 

 

What if it's simply whatever faction you pick for your warlord drops keywords down to your marines as an example to give them additional changes?

 

Simple enough and isn't tied to any specific character to get specific army bonuses. 

 

 

I wouldn’t mind this, but would hate if I had to take a named character to get any flavor beyond vanilla

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Hmmm that is possible, but I think they'll want to be more granular.

 

Even their promotional images are showing images of 5 man Inceptor units. Remember that Blast is still a keyword, so unit size granularity is a legitimate decision for players to make.

 

I hadn't really thought about it in terms of blast, but now that you bring it to my attention it still fits.

 

So your base squad of standard marines is a squad of 5. If you increase it, it goes to 10, so from no blast to the first tier of blast.

Your squad of aggressors is 3 to 6, same deal.

Cultists are 10, so blast tier 1, then 20, so blast tier 2.

 

I don't really have any proof this is how it'll go, and like you I'd rather we buy individual models, but assuming blast doesn't change it still fits, though in such a way that they're discouraging us from dodging the blast tax by stopping at units of 5 Custodes/Aggressors. 

 

Interesting stuff.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Marshal Valkenhayn said:

Maybe. However, I'm thinking we might see something similar to Sigmar's reinforcement system. Instead of buying individual models, you buy them in squads. So Aggressors you can have a squad of 3, 6, etc. Intercessors 5 or 10.

 

Currently in Sigmar you have a certain amount of units per battle size that you can reinforce in this way, and while I'm not sure that 40K will go that far, the above method is how Boarding Actions currently work, so there is some DNA for it already.

 

It isn't my favorite method. I'd like to be able to take Khorn units in groups of 8, for example, but it fits my current expectations.

Well there was that picture that apparently had 5 inceptors so this doesn’t seem likely

[Orange Knight]

Also the Plague Marines come in a box of 7, so that would be an awkward unit if they can only be taken as a 5 or 10 lol

[danodan123]

How do we know blast is still a thing?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Also the Plague Marines come in a box of 7, so that would be an awkward unit if they can only be taken as a 5 or 10 lol

But it would make GW a lot of extra money if they had to be taken in squads of 10

[BluejayJunior]

1 minute ago, danodan123 said:

How do we know blast is still a thing?

The frag missile on the cyclone missile launcher listed on the Terminator datasheet has Blast. Whether it works the same is still in question, but it is still a thing. 

[Rain]

5 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

But it would make GW a lot of extra money if they had to be taken in squads of 10

or they lock then to 7 models per squad. Given GW’s obsessive “use what comes in the box” regime, this wouldn’t shock me.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I was honestly confused at what you guys were talking about with Inceptors being in squads of 5, until I remembered what Inceptors are. I was reading Inceptors but imagining Incursors, and wondering why them being in squads of 5 would matter.

 

But yeah, if they're promoting Inceptors in squads of 5 that is a good point. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Noserenda]

18 minutes ago, Rain said:

or they lock then to 7 models per squad. Given GW’s obsessive “use what comes in the box” regime, this wouldn’t shock me.

Yeah thats how it works in AoS generally, multiples of the box size

[DesuVult]

My only problem with plague marines being locked to 7 guys is that berserkers aren't 8 to a box and rubrics aren't 9 to a box.  If they fixed aligned units to their holy number it could be cool.

[Handsome Fred]

1 minute ago, DesuVult said:

My only problem with plague marines being locked to 7 guys is that berserkers aren't 8 to a box and rubrics aren't 9 to a box.  If they fixed aligned units to their holy number it could be cool.

Fixed at holy number no...but if taken at the right number bonus rules could be interesting