Best leaders for which units?

[Karhedron]

We are starting to get hints of new rules for our Characters so I thought it would be interesting to start thinking about what leaders will work well with which units. I am working on the assumption that Characters will be locked to units that match their own armour and keywords so we will probably see:

 

Firstborn power armour

Primaris power armour

Gravis

Terminator

Phobos

 

Jamp packs and bikes are unknowns at the moment but we still have enough to be getting on with.

 

Lieutenant

 

This guy allows his squad to auto-wound on to-Hit rolls of a 6. The greatest benefit comes with low S attacks against high T targets. Good units for this guy to lead will be units with lots of basic attacks. Intercessors and Assault Intercessors will probably be great choices for the Primaris version. Desolators also get an impressive bucket of attack dice so would also make a good pairing.  Devastators with Heavy Bolters might be a good pairing for the Firstborn Lts but it remains to be seen whether HBs are worth taking over more potent heavy weapons.

 

TDA Librarian

 

A shorter list since most armies only get a couple of Terminator units to choose from. Exploding 6s benefits all weapons pretty much equally but I think gives the most value with hard hitting attacks. Sure some extra stormbolter hits are nice but the extra hits from Power fists, Chain Fists and (probably) Thunder Hammers look like where it's at to me.

 

When we get new Character abilities to consider we can add them to the pot. Does anyone have any thoughts on my initial assessments? Have I missed any potential good pairings?

[Lemondish]

11 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Desolators also get an impressive bucket of attack dice so would also make a good pairing.

Lieutenants cannot join desolator squads as far as we've seen.

 

This would also be 100% the best choice hands down if they could. Just imagine how overbearing this effect would be on a unit that can ignore line of sight and has some pretty beefy high damage weaponry available to it.

 

We do have a few redacted entries, and given that the list is in alphabetical order I think it would make sense to assume that it includes the new flamer squad and whatever the new veteran squad is.

 

For my money I would assume that the best place for this guy to be is with either of the two veteran units. Those have the highest chance, outside of potentially Hellblasters, of maximizing the effect of these buffs. I don't think it will be common to see bolt rifle intercessors rolling around with a lieutenant, but depending on what these detachment enhancements he can be bestowed, it could be a worthwhile selection.

 

15 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Exploding 6s benefits all weapons pretty much equally but I think gives the most value with hard hitting attacks.

Exploding 6s is a really fun effect, because it's pretty much just +1 to hit while never having a limit the way the actual +1 to hit can.

 

I think the biggest thing to consider is the opportunity cost for these units. Outside of the lieutenant, who can join a unit that is already led by a Captain or Chapter Master, you can only add one. Sadly, we can't get too deep into the discussion there because we haven't seen any of these opportunity costs yet.

[Captain Idaho]

I do enjoy the Veil of Time rule on the Librarian! We might not be able to attach him to non-Terminator squads, we just don't know, but the potential is immense.

 

I particularly like the idea of Terminators getting it though. With Fury of the First and Oath of Moment, we can see a lot of hits and actually go above the amount fired if you're one of those people who can somehow roll more 6s than 1s...

 

Basically a Terminator squad can be an anti-infantry nightmare.

[WrathOfTheLion]

3 hours ago, Lemondish said:

Lieutenants cannot join desolator squads as far as we've seen.

 

This would also be 100% the best choice hands down if they could. Just imagine how overbearing this effect would be on a unit that can ignore line of sight and has some pretty beefy high damage weaponry available to it.

Yes, they didn't list Desolators on the datasheet for Lieutenants, so I figure both them and captains will not be allowed to join them. Restricting the buffs like this is a good decision.

[Lemondish]

With the details we just saw regarding repulsors and their transport capacity, I'm thinking a great combination that we are likely to see pretty often will be a repulsor loaded up with whatever the new shooty Primaris veteran unit is and led by both a captain and lieutenant.

 

I don't think we know fully if all combi-weapons will behave like what we saw on the Terminator Librarian datacard, but if they do, it begs the question of how a combination of the weapon abilities lethal hits, devastating wounds, and anti-x will behave lol

[Karhedron]

A Repulsor full of Hellblasters might work well too.

[Lemondish]

15 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

A Repulsor full of Hellblasters might work well too.

Absolutely. I feel like they had a little bit of play with Impulsors and their special disembark rules already, especially when the transport could rock that 4++.

 

A tougher, more durable repulsor able to ferry a max size squad, two leaders, and help them avoid being bogged down in combat would be a fun combination, depending on points cost.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Lemondish

[XeonDragon]

I think a jump-pack Lieutenant escorting lightning claw vanguard veterans is looking interesting.... 6s to hit = autowound on low S lightning claws is good, especially if the keep the re-roll wounds ability. Could lead to a fair few wounds getting through, maybe even more than having re-roll 1st to hit + re-rolling wounds now with a captain escorting them. 

 

I'd love to see a terminator Lt. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by XeonDragon

[Lemondish]

2 hours ago, XeonDragon said:

I think a jump-pack Lieutenant escorting lightning claw vanguard veterans is looking interesting.... 6s to hit = autowound on low S lightning claws is good, especially if the keep the re-roll wounds ability. Could lead to a fair few wounds getting through, maybe even more than having re-roll 1st to hit + re-rolling wounds now with a captain escorting them. 

 

I'd love to see a terminator Lt. 

 

These threads are always the greatest - they never cease to remind me of how much I miss by always thinking in terms of Kill Teams. It also never occurred to me to consider how the firstborn Lieutenant would behave lol

 

This combo sounds spicy. I love it.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Lemondish

[Dark Shepherd]

Possible tactic with Lt with stormshield and or TDA with say hellblasters: disembark, shoot with benefits, use Lt to tank incoming fire

[Dracos]

I certainly hope that armor save allocation is spelled out in plain terms that disallow those kind of shenanigans. We don’t need full squads of Dark Eldar with tee shirt saves being ranked with a 2++ Leader. 
 

I do admit I miss the days of an initiative stat and being able to challenge leaders that had joined units. 

[Kallas]

19 minutes ago, Dracos said:

I certainly hope that armor save allocation is spelled out in plain terms that disallow those kind of shenanigans. We don’t need full squads of Dark Eldar with tee shirt saves being ranked with a 2++ Leader. 

Yeah, it could get pretty crazy if they allow that kind of wound allocation.

 

19 minutes ago, Dracos said:

I do admit I miss the days of an initiative stat and being able to challenge leaders that had joined units. 

They could make that a Core Stratagem! Hopefully they've got some interesting stuff in there like a Challenge or something.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Dracos said:

I certainly hope that armor save allocation is spelled out in plain terms that disallow those kind of shenanigans. We don’t need full squads of Dark Eldar with tee shirt saves being ranked with a 2++ Leader. 

 

That was pretty much how it worked in 7th IIRC. You would often get a tanky character standing at the front of the squad to mitigate small-arms fire and then then pass heavy shots off to a mook with "Look Out Sir!"

[Marshal Reinhard]

I certainly wouldn't mind the glorious return of challanges.

 

The Emperor's Champion is practically made for them.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Helias_Tancred]

48 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

I certainly wouldn't mind the glorious return of challanges.

 

The Emperor's Champion is practically made for them.

 

I'll vote for that return!!

 

 

[Lemondish]

11 hours ago, Kallas said:

Yeah, it could get pretty crazy if they allow that kind of wound allocation.

 

I'm thinking that's what the precision weapon ability would be - the ability to target a specific model in a unit perhaps?

 

Could be sweet for snipers to be able to not just target characters/leaders, but to also snipe out special weapons from squads.

 

7 hours ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

I'll vote for that return!!

 

I second this, and hopefully with it comes a wide-scale release of the Chapter Champion model :D

[Tacitus]

On 4/18/2023 at 2:50 PM, Karhedron said:

 

 

Lieutenant

 

This guy allows his squad to auto-wound on to-Hit rolls of a 6. The greatest benefit comes with low S attacks against high T targets. Good units for this guy to lead will be units with lots of basic attacks. Intercessors and Assault Intercessors will probably be great choices for the Primaris version. Desolators also get an impressive bucket of attack dice so would also make a good pairing.  Devastators with Heavy Bolters might be a good pairing for the Firstborn Lts but it remains to be seen whether HBs are worth taking over more potent heavy weapons.

 

Sort of.  Assuming Critical Hits/Wounds dont have some other bonus we haven't seen yet,  You've got to find the Sweet Spot.  Either high Rate Of Fire with low-mid S and High armor pen- or so ridiculously many shots Armor Pen doesn't matter - think Mastercrafted Power Swords and their equivalents.   I'm hoping we see some biker Lieutenats and Terminators soon, else Dark Angels could get the nod with their Strike Masters and Talonmasters.   A talonmaster attached to 5 HB/AC Tornadoes, or 10 Black Talon bikers might be typical.  (and truth be told, that could be something Ravenwing needs - their anti-tank choices were frequently sparse).