Combat Patrol 10th Edition Combat Patrol Preview

[Stupidity]

Oh hey, I really like that Rites of Battle ability. Adds a nice layer of customization to lists. Especially when more detachments drop. 

I hope other faction's captain level characters get something similar. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Stupidity

[Khornestar]

Which terminator captain model has a storm shield? Don’t ever recall seeing one (though I don’t claim to know them all by heart). I am skeptical that simply a terminator existing with a storm shield in the kit is the thing that translates into that wargear. If that was the case, the librarian should be able to have one too.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Khornestar

[Urauloth]

So, in theory, I really like the look of Combat Patrol. As a skirmish game fan almost exclusively, it's got that small-scale "every model counts" vibe I like, and a format like Underwords Rivals is something I can definitely see working for 40k. It looks fast, affordable and easy to play in terms of space, as well as a good way of getting started with the game or with a new faction. Basically, all the stuff they're selling it as, with added appeal to me from its low model count. Great!

 

Here's what I don't like, though:

 

Quote

To keep things balanced, the weapons options for the units have been fixed for all the Combat Patrol datasheets, so there’s no need to fret about your character and unit equipment prior to a game. You don’t need to worry about which guns to give your Chaos Space Marine Havocs, for example. 

I have a horrible feeling this translates to "you have to build exactly what's on the box art," which in the case of the Havoc squad means a lascannon, heavy bolter, launcher and chaincannon. That's not how I want to build my Havocs. If I already built my Havoc squad with a different loadout, do I have to get another one to be able to run a combat patrol?

This seems like it puts the patrol sets at two crossed purposes, because they don't work as starter/expansion sets if the game mode developed for them demands they be assembled a specific way.

[crimsondave]

This SM combat patrol vs say the Custodes combat patrol doesn’t seem very equitable.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think what they'll do is just make the weapons for Havocs a 'Heavy Weapon' or something like that, so you can build them any which way you want.

 

That's the right way to go at least, make it so your choices in modeling do not matter for the intro game.

[Squark]

4 hours ago, KrakenBorn said:

 

I really hope stormshields still bring an invuln save... I am in fear for my bladeguard.

It looks like the +1 to saves is being cut or replaced with the extra wound (Finally, a reason for bladegaurd to be 3 wounds!), but I don't see any reason why they'd cut the 4+  invulnerable. It's just not relevant to Captains who already have their Iron Halo.

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, crimsondave said:

This SM combat patrol vs say the Custodes combat patrol doesn’t seem very equitable.

Maybe in 10th combat patrol boxes would be repackaged and have less models.

[chapter master 454]

Not having a good feeling with the whole Combi-Weapon thing. Just feels too far...like I would get it if it were just for the combat patrol but taht profile is...like nothing of any of the weapons that make a combi-weapon. Plasma? No overcharged profile. Melta? Well no melta rule. Grav? Nothing for that. Flamer? No Torrent. That whole profile would fit to a T if it were some sort of Combi-Volkite.

 

Just hoping it is a place holder for the time being. Certainly not in favour of it.

[MegaVolt87]

5 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

Not having a good feeling with the whole Combi-Weapon thing. Just feels too far...like I would get it if it were just for the combat patrol but taht profile is...like nothing of any of the weapons that make a combi-weapon. Plasma? No overcharged profile. Melta? Well no melta rule. Grav? Nothing for that. Flamer? No Torrent. That whole profile would fit to a T if it were some sort of Combi-Volkite.

 

Just hoping it is a place holder for the time being. Certainly not in favour of it.

 

Look at merged profiles in CSM, fixed loadouts in BT, DG etc. Its plausible to carry over for loyalists. Yes you should be worried. 

[spessmarine]

2 hours ago, crimsondave said:

This SM combat patrol vs say the Custodes combat patrol doesn’t seem very equitable.

 

Based off

 

Quote

It won’t have escaped your attention that certain Combat Patrols contain big, tough MONSTERS and formidable VEHICLES, while others are somewhat lacking in the heavy weapons you’d normally use to take such targets down. Stratagems like Veteran Instincts will even the score, by granting your Terminators the ability to re-roll Wound rolls when swinging their power fists against giant-sized targets. 

 

There will be adhoc unique rules to round things out. Jetbikes get anti-marine 1+
 

8 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

Not having a good feeling with the whole Combi-Weapon thing. Just feels too far...like I would get it if it were just for the combat patrol but taht profile is...like nothing of any of the weapons that make a combi-weapon. Plasma? No overcharged profile. Melta? Well no melta rule. Grav? Nothing for that. Flamer? No Torrent. That whole profile would fit to a T if it were some sort of Combi-Volkite.

 

Just hoping it is a place holder for the time being. Certainly not in favour of it.

 

Yeah, combi weapons are a warhammer staple so it feels a bit odd to muddle them down so much.
I would've gone with maybe three firing profiles shared by all to simplify them down. Anti-infantry, anti-vehicle, and regular profile maybe.

That'd would be like

- Assault 2, 24'', Str 4 D1 AP0

- Assault 1, 18'' Str 3 D1 AP-1 Anti-infantry 3+

- Assault 1, 18'' Str 5 D1 AP-1 Anti-vehicle 3+

 

Not exactly but something like that.

[Tokugawa]

2 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

Not having a good feeling with the whole Combi-Weapon thing. Just feels too far...like I would get it if it were just for the combat patrol but taht profile is...like nothing of any of the weapons that make a combi-weapon. Plasma? No overcharged profile. Melta? Well no melta rule. Grav? Nothing for that. Flamer? No Torrent. That whole profile would fit to a T if it were some sort of Combi-Volkite.

 

Just hoping it is a place holder for the time being. Certainly not in favour of it.

In 8/9 th rules, old born marine units had more options on combi-weapons. Some could bring very many (e.g. wolf guards) in one unit, due to unknown reasons. Which improve their damage output.

 

Meanwhile, primaris/new marine products have few combi-weapons.

 

This indicate the destiny of combi-weapons in future edition.

[Lemondish]

13 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Again with the single weapon profile for combi weapon on the Captain's sheet. Gonna go with all combi weapons being the this one profile for sure now. Rest seems pretty self explanatory 

I'll take that bet.

[Frogian]

4 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Maybe in 10th combat patrol boxes would be repackaged and have less models.

 

Perhaps but its not likely to happen any time soon - they've already essentially advertised this as a mode for the current combat patrols, so all the current ones will get rules (tyranids and perhaps SM one aside)

 

10 hours ago, Bouargh said:

I may sing a diferent song but to me this game mode is tatooed "born dead". Should a lite 40k be needed for intro games and newcomers, well issue a lite self standing game and that's it.

pretending that Leviathan has 2 patrols inside that can compete in a balanced with an IG or AdMech patrol bears inside a clear bias IMO. This is a fools game.

 A lite self standing game is only ever going to have 2 factions in it. This is a great mode for anyone wanting to start outside those factions or for anyone wanting to start a new army, or play a quick done-in-an-hour game. 

 

I mean they've changed up the rules for the models in the combat patrols to make them balanced - i don't see why you think its impossible?

 

[Kallas]

26 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

I'll take that bet.

Got any reason to think Combi-Weapons won't be a single profile?

 

We've seen it twice now, and we've seen that the previewed Captain's Combi-Weapon is Index card ("Check out how the Captain in Terminator Armour from the index cards compares with the streamlined Captain Octavius from Combat Patrol.")

 

Evidence suggests that Combi-Weapons are going to be a single profile.

[Marshal Reinhard]

5 hours ago, Lemondish said:

I'll take that bet.

And your basis for doing this aside from a high risk tolerance? The terminator captain sheet in particular was listed as being the index version, and contrasted with the streamlined octavius version. Specifically it lists all manner of melee weapon options, yet when it comes to ranged weapon options it restricts itself to two. Why do this? Wasn't it suppossed to be unrestrained?

 

And like I brought up in the terminator witch topic: if this is just one of several still existing combi weapon profiles, then which one is it? Why does it have so many special rules to make it special? Why is it not called combi-plasma/flamer/melta/grav? Or have rule/stats reminiscent of any of those? Is it a new variant? Or is the profile just a stand in for the other 4?

 

I find explaining that 'there's actually still multiple combi weapon profiles" to be the uphill battle here. There's no shortage of questions that pop up if we try to assume combi weapons have remained the same despite the evidence.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard
Grammar & more questions

[Rhavien]

Is it just me, or does the once mighty thunderhammer look like a big looser? Fishing for 6s to wound didn't appeal to me ever. It's more like a nice gimmick which kicks in from time to time. The fist has identical stats but hits on a 2 which looks like a better deal to me. At least with low attack volume. Curious about the points. I guess they will cost the same now. 

[Doobles57]

8 hours ago, Khornestar said:

Which terminator captain model has a storm shield? Don’t ever recall seeing one (though I don’t claim to know them all by heart). I am skeptical that simply a terminator existing with a storm shield in the kit is the thing that translates into that wargear. If that was the case, the librarian should be able to have one too.

Might be a sign of a new multipart kit (hopeful but doesn't feel likely). Might be that Lysander is losing named character status and this is to give his model a data sheet? Might be that if they're now including Forgeworld models proper, it's to allow you to use this guy:

 

Again, doesn't feel that's the likely intent, but since I have that model, that's probably what I'll be doing!

[Tokugawa]

34 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

And your basis for doing this aside from a high risk tolerance? The terminator captain sheet in particular was listed as being the index version, and contrasted with the streamlined octavius version. Specifically it lists all manner of melee weapon options, yet when it comes to ranged weapon options it restricts itself to two. Why?

 

And like I brought up in the terminator witch topic: if this is just one of several still existing combi weapon profiles, then which one is it? Why does it have so many special rules to make it special? Why is it not called combi-plasma/flamer/melta/grav? If its none of those is it a new one? A made up one used as a stand in for the other 4?

 

I find explaining that 'there's actually still multiple combi weapon profiles" to be the uphill battle here. There's no shortage of questions that pop up if we try to assume combi weapons have remained the same despite the evidence.

Relax, maybe some people just cannot emotionally accept the fact that combi-melta is going to be deleted, given they might spent much time and money to collect these WYSIWYG bits.

 

25 minutes ago, Rhavien said:

Is it just me, or does the once mighty thunderhammer look like a big looser? Fishing for 6s to wound didn't appeal to me ever. It's more like a nice gimmick which kicks in from time to time. The fist has identical stats but hits on a 2 which looks like a better deal to me. At least with low attack volume. Curious about the points. I guess they will cost the same now. 

Maybe GW want to fix the problem of "Chaos don't have enough thunder hammers!".

 

 

Well, dmg3 -> dmg2 is a big downgrade. But with oath, it may produce more MWs than expectation…

 

 

[Aramis K]

I don't like the combi-weapon merger at all.

I kinda get the supposed reasons. And I'd be chill about merging plasma, grav, volkite and grenade into a sort of heavy infantry buster, using strength and ap rather than a pile of special rules (S7 -2 D2)

 

But flamer and melta - they're quite distinct in purpose and target.

 

I hope they're only merging older kits with multiple options to de-risk the build.

 

Newer minis with a single combi option must surely stay distinct. The new lieutenant will be getting a flamer, right?

 

We shall see.

[Xenith]

I'm kind of looking forward to these rules, it'll be interesting to try them out - not a fan of locked loadouts, though, however most long in the tooth gamers should be able to recreate them no problem.

 

They go on about balance testing, but they said the same with 9th - maybe the playtesters were playtesting 10th instead of the last few 9th edition codexes? that would explain why everything went to :cuss: from Tau onwards. 

[ZeroWolf]

Regarding the combi weapons, it is something that they could change when the codex drops. Probably won't but the chance is there.

[TrawlingCleaner]

I actually really like the Combi-weapon profile. Beyond the building process being easier for new players, it makes the rolling sequence a lot easier. There's no having to roll each different weapon type seperately and slowing the game down, the profiles don't get worse for shooting both parts. As with Accursed weapons, Atalan Small arms, Cult claws and Knives etc it means you can model them however you want without having to worry about a Power Maul being worse than a Sword in some situations or not being as efficent in points.

"Smooshing" profiles that don't really need to exist is good, in my opinion.

 

 

[Tokugawa]

24 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

I actually really like the Combi-weapon profile. Beyond the building process being easier for new players, it makes the rolling sequence a lot easier. There's no having to roll each different weapon type seperately and slowing the game down, the profiles don't get worse for shooting both parts. As with Accursed weapons, Atalan Small arms, Cult claws and Knives etc it means you can model them however you want without having to worry about a Power Maul being worse than a Sword in some situations or not being as efficent in points.

"Smooshing" profiles that don't really need to exist is good, in my opinion.

 

 

I welcome this change, but I think the new profile is a bit weak. Can't scratch a tank. 

[Toxichobbit]

12 hours ago, Bradeh said:

The problem with combi-weapons balance wise is that they are hard bits to get outside of 3d printing

 

No, they aren't.

 

Only Firstborn & Chaos Marines/Blightlord Terminators make significant use of combi-weapons. For Firstborn, the Tactical kit has one (4 build options), the Devastator kit has one (4 build options), the Sternguard kit has eight, the now-discontinued Captain kit had two, the MkIV Tactical Squad has two (3 build options), the Cataphractii Captain has one & Forgeworld sell a pack of fifteen. Also, the Land Raider Excelsior has one (held by the crewman), but that's Warhammer World Exclusive & Legends, so it's in a weird place. I'm not including limited releases for obvious reasons. You can give most Firstborn characters combi-weapons, but if you're a Firstborn collector that shouldn't be an issue at all. There was a time when Firstborn were struggling to find combi-weapons for units, but they're swimming in them now.

 

For Chaos Marines, the Terminator kit has five, the Chosen kit has two (3 build options), the Terminator/Sorcerer Lord has one, every Chaos Marine tank has one & the Exalted Champion had one before they discontinued it. Out of those kits, only the Terminator Lord/Sorcerer Lord & tanks don't have all the possible options in the kit. Chaos Bikers also have combi-weapon upgrade options for some reason, but none in the kit - they haven't sold the metal combi-weapon upgrade for that unit for a couple of editions at least. So that sucks, but then so does the entire Chaos Biker kit.

 

Blightlords have three, which is all the combi-weapon options that the unit has.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Toxichobbit

[Kallas]

30 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

"Smooshing" profiles that don't really need to exist is good, in my opinion.

I disagree that the combi profiles don't need to exist. By this logic we could go so far as to smoosh down all special weapons into one profile, and all heavy weapons into one profile, across all factions. While we're at it, we might as well smoosh down infantry weapons into one profile.

 

Yes, reducing unnecessary rules and profiles is good but we should still have some granularity.

 

If combis are getting smooshed to make special weapons stand out more, there are other methods to do this, such as giving full special weapons slightly better stats and a cheaper cost while combis are more expensive but give flexibility in loadout. Especially with new USR keywords, a Combi-Flamer, for example, could have Ignore Cover and Torrent, but a full Flamer could have Anti-Infantry 5+ - as an example, probably don't want all Flamers like that, but to illustrate the point that there are more knobs to dial in balance.