17:3 Gender Ratio in my friend's school's Warhammer Club

[N1SB]

So I mentioned my friend Timperial Guard, my go-to guy when I read Games Workshop's financial reports and I don't understand enough about the costs of plastic mould injection, who also happens to be the best painter in our meta, the bastard.  He's actually a teacher, a top one, head of the Design & Technology department in his school.

 

He also runs his school's Warhammer Club, because the reward for good work is MORE work.  He was telling me about this year's students, went like this.

 

"I got 20 students in the Warhammer Club this year, guess the gender mix."

 

It was not a political point, and I knew from past conversations with him there were differences between gender and sexuality that teachers have to be very careful about, so I kinda waded slowly into this particular pool, but being me I came off awkward like a cat intruding on your bathtime, "Uh...are you talking about LGBTQ..."

 

"No," he replied, emphasising it wasn't that, just simply, "Boys, girls.  20 kids.  Guess."

 

"20 dudes."  I knew it was a trick question, and that was the obvious and obviously wrong answer, but just moving the convo forward.

 

"No, 17 and 3."

 

"Oh," I exclaimed, "that's not bad!"  I like my female fellow Hobbyists, they're usually the better painters in my meta.  "17 boys, 3 girls, nice."

 

"No," Tim corrected my dumb butt for a 3rd time in a row, "17 girls, 3 boys."

 

17 Sororitas: 3 Fraters!!!

 

If your reaction is, "wait, wut," that was MY reaction as well.  I received the Stupefied status effect irl, like Emperor's Children in HH 3.0 hit with a Truth Bomb.

 

"Oh," Tim scoffed, "they don't even play.  They showed up and asked, 'Warhammer's just sitting with friends, painting, chatting, listening to music, right?'"

 

He explained, these 17 girls would sit in the classroom, talk amongst themselves, listen to the soundtrack from Kpop Demon Hunters X on loop, and paint.  They paint whatever they like, however they like, and the 3 boys take their miniatures and actually play 40k with them.  But they have these random Marines painted as Rainbow Warriors vs. the Strawberry Cupcake Chapter.

 

Then I thought of something, "Tim...we haven't played a 40k game since 9th edition."  I myself played as recently as our Warhammer Store's 10th ed Crusade Campaign, WE have played Aeronautica Imperialis, Blood Bowl, Warcry together, he plays Legiones Imperialis WEEKLY with our mutual friend who I haven't seen since forever, Legiones Louis, but "painting, chatting, listening to music and NOT playing (40k)...that's YOU, dude!"

 

He did the look up like when you scan the heavens for records from your memory, found a big gap since his last 40k game, and conceded the point.

 

But 17 girls, 3 boys.  Not bad.  Painting while listening to Kpop Demon Hunters X over, and over...and not playing.  Actually, I hate that Soda Pop song.

 

17:3

[Scribe]

Funny I was just wondering about this the other day.

 

My primary nerd domains are, in no order.

 

40K, WHFB, 30K, as one does.

MtG.

RPGs.

PC Gaming.

 

At any given time any of those could be 100%, 0%, or a mix of my hobby time and attention.

 

Only 1, has been 100% male over my entire life, and that's including private groups, clubs, travel to tournaments.

 

I've literally never seen a woman playing a GW game.

[sitnam]

2 hours ago, Scribe said:

I've literally never seen a woman playing a GW game.

Oddly enough, my most played GW game is Warcry. About 2/3 of the people I have played against have been women(Store manager and her sister in law). Mind you I am not an avid player either, 95% focused on hobby

[Captain Idaho]

Whilst he could be sincerely relaying that information to you truthfully and I'll take his information in good faith, going by his account he's an unusual outlier by a long way.

 

I have kids, my friends have kids, I work with kids and I coach kids... girls ain't playing warhammer better than 100 to 1.

 

That number is rough and not to be literally attributed to my soul, but it isn't far off the mark.

[Valkia the Bloody]

5 hours ago, Scribe said:

I've literally never seen a woman playing a GW game.

Oh hello, my name is Valkia, how may I crush you today? 

 

Anyways- 

Oh wow!

Very interesting.

How things have changed....

Putting a female perspective on this-

when I started out 30 years ago (it was my dad's fault, he introduced me into the hobby of creating and collection miniature armies), and even during my tournament time in the 2010s, I was literally THE ONLY female player ever. 

There were several, even very good female regional painters, however. They just did not play, but one of them even designed decorated bases and sold them online. 

I stuck with it, even if there was some low level bullying and the boys tried to get rid of the icky XX-chromosome human, but I just laughed and then did it anyways. 

Because I love the setting and the building / modelling/ painting and I love narrative play. 

I made some awesome friends of my old university Warhammer play groups and some of them are still friends with me now. 

Currently, I am not playing anymore since I have a full time job, am now an older person and the active playing group is some distance drive away (living rural). 

But the building and painting side of the hobby is strong as ever and even if I have an hiatus of 1-2 years where I lose interest, I so far have always come back. 

Of the ladies I know at the moment (who are also into the building and painting side of things)- they are either just doing the occasional Warhammer model because they like the sculpts or if they paint armies, they create over the top painted armies which are either fun gaudy playful things or as grim-dark and gory as you can get (for some reason, there is no "normal" in between these options). 

 

With the girls in this school-

it could be that they are drawn to the creative side of the hobby and just love painting a crazy Ork army. Probably, these girls are all friends. 

My personal observation is that most girls just do not like crashing into a boy's party, so if there is no male around introducing them to a gaming group, they will not join. 

There just is such a huge hurdle for girls to being mentally comfortable to conquer a typical male domain. 

 

THIS is maybe the biggest hint: 

5 hours ago, N1SB said:

They showed up and asked, 'Warhammer's just sitting with friends, painting, chatting, listening to music, right?'"

 

Not everyone is as shameless and pitiless and REALLY into it as myself.... (I had grown men at tournaments cry when they realized that they were losing against the girl.... but I was just "No pity! No remorse! No fear!" while playing my Pink Angels army which I especially created to get tempers up). 

As for which army is most popular with girls....

a couple of years back, in one of the Facebook painting groups, there was a poll of which army we liked best.

Unsurprisingly, it was Chaos, Necrons and especially Orks. Orks are always popular with the ladies. 

I am a Chaos girl myself. 

And I am also a very big nerd in general- I go to sci-fi conventions and do a bit of cosplay (Star Trek, Doctor Who) and I am in the workplace pen-and-paper group. 

[Captain Idaho]

1 hour ago, Valkia the Bloody said:

As for which army is most popular with girls....

a couple of years back, in one of the Facebook painting groups, there was a poll of which army we liked best.

Unsurprisingly, it was Chaos, Necrons and especially Orks. Orks are always popular with the ladies. 

I am a Chaos girl myself. 

 

Yeah I totally agree! I've seen a few girls playing Warhammerz and they don't collect Adepta Sororitas or want "female inclusion" factions. They already are included so don't need to collect the female thing to justify their inclusion. 

 

I've noticed girls playing Tyranids, Orks, Necrons and Chaos Marines.

 

Good for them.

 

And no Tau. Double good for them. 

[Magos Takatus]

I'm not close to any female hobbyists personally, but there is at least one in my local hobby group, but since I only attend there once in a blue moon so I've only spoken to her once or twice. I do know someone on Instagram who's pretty neat, though. She mainly paints Carcharodons and Night Lords and does a damn fine job with them, too.

 

I need to get out and mingle a bit more, though. I only semi-regularly play my old childhood rival now since he got back into 40k in 8th and I have another friend that I play smaller scale games with. 

 

I also really miss those chill out and paint sessions. Since my friends stopped collecting in the 90's painting has been a solitary habit for me and I've only got to share painting time in very few precious occasions, like when I taught a buddy the absolute basics of painting OSL and he went on to do a pretty solid job of improving on it. One of my other friends is a bit shy about painting, I think he felt awkward because of the skill gap between us, but I feel that's the point, we learn more quickly when we paint together. It's easier to share techniques that way. 

 

Sorry, this devolved from "I don't see enough women in the hobby" to "I don't see enough people in the hobby" 

[phandaal]

45 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yeah I totally agree! I've seen a few girls playing Warhammerz and they don't collect Adepta Sororitas or want "female inclusion" factions. They already are included so don't need to collect the female thing to justify their inclusion. 

 

I've noticed girls playing Tyranids, Orks, Necrons and Chaos Marines.

 

This has been my experience too. Orks by far, then Tyranids. Those are actually the only ones I can remember seeing.

 

37 minutes ago, Magos Takatus said:

Sorry, this devolved from "I don't see enough women in the hobby" to "I don't see enough people in the hobby" 

 

Technically, one follows from the other. Venn diagrams etc. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

When you are young like a pupil or student you tend to play a lot. And when you become an adult playing opportunities become rare events. It´s called the hobby journey. Though with age comes wisdom and speaking for myself I have now the patience of building and painting vehicles to make them look good. So I am no longer driven to complete X unit for the weekend neglecting details in the process just to get a game in. 

[Valkia the Bloody]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Yeah I totally agree! I've seen a few girls playing Warhammerz and they don't collect Adepta Sororitas or want "female inclusion" factions. They already are included so don't need to collect the female thing to justify their inclusion. 

 

I've noticed girls playing Tyranids, Orks, Necrons and Chaos Marines.

 

Good for them.

 

And no Tau. Double good for them. 

I actually do not know a single female hobbyist collecting Sororitas. Not a single one. 

Which goes to show that we are fine without "female inclusion" factions. 

I do however know of one female Tau painter, however, she is very much into Manga and Japanese Mechs, so her Tau army is a very colorful Manga army. I remember her posting a beautiful rendition of that Tau model with the Sakura / cherry tree on the base (Farsight?), and this was the very first time ever that I thought- wow, this model can look good and I could be tempted if I did something like that. 

[Brother Tyler]

While a ratio of 17 males to 3 females would have seemed on the higher side of what I would normally expect, the reverse is definitely surprising. I recently met a family in which every member - husband, wife, 1 son, 2 daughters - enjoys the hobby (which I think is absolutely great). While it's mildly disappointing that the females in your friend's class simply enjoy the painting and not the gaming, that demonstrates how the different aspects of the hobby allow for people with diverse interests to focus on the aspect(s) that appeal to them without feeling a need to dive into the other aspects for which they have little/no interest. After all, the artistic aspects of the game are a huge draw for me (and, I suspect, most of the members of this community), so it shouldn't be surprising that anyone that enjoys similar artistic endeavors and who isn't put off by the appearance of the models might similarly be drawn to the hobby simply for the joy of painting finely-sculpted models. And if they enjoy fantasy/sci-fi, it would be easy to see the Warhammer hobby appealing to them.

 

From a neckbeard perspective, the non-canon minis might be a bit troubling. From a fun/social aspect, however, the "Rainbow Warriors vs. the Strawberry Cupcake Chapter" is hilarious. I wonder if there would be any room to entice more members of the club into playing the game if your friend could figure out a way to build something around the models they've painted.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

1 hour ago, Brother Tyler said:

While a ratio of 17 males to 3 females would have seemed on the higher side of what I would normally expect, the reverse is definitely surprising. I recently met a family in which every member - husband, wife, 1 son, 2 daughters - enjoys the hobby (which I think is absolutely great). While it's mildly disappointing that the females in your friend's class simply enjoy the painting and not the gaming, that demonstrates how the different aspects of the hobby allow for people with diverse interests to focus on the aspect(s) that appeal to them without feeling a need to dive into the other aspects for which they have little/no interest. After all, the artistic aspects of the game are a huge draw for me (and, I suspect, most of the members of this community), so it shouldn't be surprising that anyone that enjoys similar artistic endeavors and who isn't put off by the appearance of the models might similarly be drawn to the hobby simply for the joy of painting finely-sculpted models. And if they enjoy fantasy/sci-fi, it would be easy to see the Warhammer hobby appealing to them.

 

From a neckbeard perspective, the non-canon minis might be a bit troubling. From a fun/social aspect, however, the "Rainbow Warriors vs. the Strawberry Cupcake Chapter" is hilarious. I wonder if there would be any room to entice more members of the club into playing the game if your friend could figure out a way to build something around the models they've painted.

The Rainbow Warriors (RW) are a real SM chapter. They come in UM blue with a tiny rainbow pattern and were a satire during the Rogue Trader era of Greenpeace whose ship was named Rainbow Warrior. Their ship was sunk during a protest against French nuclear bomb testing by French secret service agents. 

[Brother Tyler]

2 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

The Rainbow Warriors (RW) are a real SM chapter. They come in UM blue with a tiny rainbow pattern and were a satire during the Rogue Trader era of Greenpeace whose ship was named Rainbow Warrior. Their ship was sunk during a protest against French nuclear bomb testing by French secret service agents. 

 

Yes, all of that is well known. However, based on the name of the other "Chapter," I have a suspicion that these Adeptus Astartes are not painted in the scheme that we would recognize as the canon Rainbow Warriors.

[Kommisar_K]

So does it count if you get your sisters into the game?  

But anyway I have seen women/girls playing a couple times tho. Might've been slightly more Kill Team focused, likely due to (as has already been pointed out) the easier personalization. You can do more artwork for less money with the smaller forces. Those I've seen actually playing 40K are often part of a family where the whole group is into the hobby. Maybe not always, but often. 

Ok actually going back to that first sentence... Not only have two of my sisters played with me & started collecting armies, several more of my female relatives/friends are getting into Warhammer. Again, family ties. It makes it easier to get in when you're seeing people's cool painted armies and whatnot. Then when you have your own, playing is the best way to show it off! But it takes a special breed of human (XY or XX) to spend 4 hours over the gaming table ya know? The creativity side of the hobby is a really great gateway.