Placing The Lion: Son of the Forest and Arks of Omens in the Timeline

[ThaneOfTas]

Okay so having had a look around it seems that the general consensus is that the return of the Lion and the Arks of Omen series takes place fairly far forward in the timeline, well after the Plague War and the Dark imperium Trilogy.

 

I can understand why this is believed, Arks of Omen definitely takes place after the Devastation of Baal and Darkness in the Blood considering that Dante has crossed the Rubicon, and a lot of the Dawn of Fire series seems to have Guilliman in the background working towards crossing into Nihilus.

 

There is however a major issue with this interpretation, Crusade: Pariah Nexus. For those who haven't read it or need a refresher, Pariah Nexus ends with a build up to Guilliman arriving at the Titular location with a large force from Fleet Primus, and thus leads into Dawn of Fire IX: The Silent King. The Silent Kind then ends with Guilliman heading back to Ultramar to fight Mortarion in the Plague War. The Problem is that the last act of the Pariah Nexus Crusade book features Vashtor Showing up in the Nexus with his new Daemon World Wormwood. Wormwood, having been made from the Ruins of Caliban, was not finished or activated until the finale of the Arks of Omen: The Lion.

 

This means that Devastation of Baal must have occurred at some point during the Dawn of Fire series, and that Guilliman must have managed to force his way back and forth through the Nachmund Gauntlet at least once before the Black Legion descended on it.

 

Now what does any of this actually mean?

 

Well for starters, The Lion has been awake and active for longer than most people seem to have realised. Secondly it means that Archmagos, Crusade: Armageddon or Crusade: Leviathan seem to be the furthest forward point in the timeline so far (Although I'm not certain which of those it would be.

 

Other than that? probably not much, but it seemed interesting to me.

 

Was there anything that I've missed? Are we going to have to break out the good old Timey-Wimey Warp time travel plot hole repair kit again? Am I putting way more thought into this than it deserves?

 

 

[Karhedron]

9 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Was there anything that I've missed? Are we going to have to break out the good old Timey-Wimey Warp time travel plot hole repair kit again? Am I putting way more thought into this than it deserves?

 

More thought than BL apparently. I guess we may have to waive this as warp-related time shenanigans. Wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey indeed!

 

[NTaW]

Wish I had seen this thread instead of having this conversation in the 500 Worlds thread.

 

I finally caught up on the Arks of Omen books. Turns out I had read at least the last book but getting the others for context was helpful. I'll put this but in spoilers since Archmagos is a pretty recent book.

 

I think that Archmagos happens after Arks or Omen since we are Vashtorr in the novel and he is pulled from Nihilus to Sanctus by ritual summoning and binding. I didn't have AoO for context and will likely re-listen to Archmagos now that I have, but I'm pretty sure Vashtorr references "things going on in Nihilus" that he was being separated from but that it sort of works for him anyway (because Chaos has many plans? Yep a re-listen is in order).

 

Given the conversation in the 500 Worlds thread where we established the original Nihilus trips' references in the Dark Imperium books 1 and 2 were removed, I think that Devastation of Baal happens sometime after Godblight but before the Son of the Forest>Arks>Archmagos lineup. Perhaps SotF and AoO happen in tandem, with the stories lining up for the last book.

 

None of this really helps with the placement of Vashtorr in the final act of the Pariah Nexus crusade book, though I only read a synopsis of that one and have now found a person on YouTube straight reading the books for better context. Is it possible that chain of events goes Dawn of Fire book 1>Indomitus>Dawn of Fire book 9>Pariah Nexus? If the Crusade book continues the story after Guilliman's brief foray in The Silent King, it may offer the timing required for Vashtorr's appearance. That theoretical heavily relies on Guilliman's exit back to Ultramar being closer to the beginning of the crusade book though.

 

As always a healthy dose of timey wimey goodness will be involved, and GW can and will change it to whatever they want at any point. I did read a synopsis of the new 500 Worlds book and apparently it ends with:

 

A message from Lion to Guilliman saying "Brother, we need to talk"

 

Which doesn't exactly help anything at all and only posits more questions about Guilliman's Nihilus trip to Baal. Seems GW has created a fairly mysterious bubble of time with this retcon that they themselves haven't quite sorted out (or rather, released) just yet.

[NTaW]

Upon finishing the Pariah Nexus Crusade book, I realize there's no doubt about it preceding The Silent King.

 

There is a comment that Vashtorr makes to themself on arrival to the Nexus regarding real space and the flow of time there being more regimented, and that some things have or haven't happened there. The implication I'm taking is that GW is embracing timey-wimey warp stuff for this, and that Vashtorr's timeline weaves through the Imperium's timeline as required or written.

 

I do think there is some plan that GW has here that we'll see nudged forward through the end of 10th campaigns, though I don't think that it will be the focus of the books much like the one liner tagged into the end of the 500 Worlds book I put in a spoiler. I'm hoping that we see another couple novels released alongside these campaigns or at the release of 11th edition that pull the threads a little closer together. It sure seems like Archmagos is the "newest" book, but it leaves a gap of Guilliman crossing to Nihilus since he's off-screened to be there after Godblight.

 

Not really looking for a play by play from GW, really. Just some consistency that we can get behind.