Took Black Templar to local tourny; Didn't do too shabby

[Head Mook]

Out of the 5 or so Templar players at my local GWS, I had never even heard of someone wanting to bring a Crusade to the monthly tournament. I fixed that on Saturday! It was only the second tournament I've played in, so I didn't place, but I aquitted myself rather well I like to think.

 

I ran:

-Terminator Marshal w/ claws; 3/2 FC Terminators in an LRC

 

-3 Crusades in Rhinos; EC rode here

 

-3 Vindicators

 

It was a straightforeward, user-friendly list that gave the enemy a lot of problems starting Turn 1. As for my opponents I played 3 of the 4 Tyranid players that day. Quirky placement and the will of the Emperor right there... It ended up being a lot of fun though, because all three armies were fundementally different. As opposed to, say, All Genestealers All the Time.

 

Round 1 (Pitched Battle, Annihilation): My first game with my new list (Oh, I didn't mention that I've been playing almost exclusively Guard for 4 months?). I played against the person who ended up winning the tournament. He had two Tervigons and two of the deep striking monstrosities (Mawlocks?), then 40 something Gargoyles, and 9 Hive Guard.

 

I steal the initiative! Huzzah! Vindicators blast him to bits, the Marshal and Co. shred some gargoyles that were open to assault and the Crusaders do their thing. All three Vindicators are wrecked in turn 4, having fired 10 devastating shots between them.

 

Turn 6 my opponent makes a screaming recovery and snags 3 kill points to tie it up. Game goes on to 7! On my turn the Marshal has gone solo and charges a unit of 3 Hiveguard sitting 9 inches from the board edge. He murders two and puts a wound on the third. It falls back out of combat, but Alas! No sweeping advance. My opponent rolls an amazing 5 for his fall back.

 

Bottom of 7: My opponent can score no points and...rolls a 3 for his fall back! Tie Game!

 

Round 2 (Spearhead, 3 Objectives): One other team tied in Round 1. I was either going to play a Necron list with two Monoliths and the Deciever or the best Tyranid player in the region (He attends many tournaments and tends to place well). Suprise and relief, it was the Nids! His list? Gene Stealer Spam. Two Tervigons, 9 Hive Guard and 30 gene stealers.

 

I won the roll and placed two objectives. Then I won the roll and decided for first turn. I made a lot of deployment errors in this game, both with my objectives and my units. It was followed by several tactical errors during the game. In hindsight I was going to lose this game one way or another.

 

However, it doesn't help that his Genestealers typically rolled more rends than savable wounds! And over the course of the game I failed more armor saves than I made. Again, I gimped myself with some strategic and tactical errors, but man was it quick. Good news is, I wasn't tabled! My last remaining unit was my LRC and it tank shocked it's way into contesting a point.

 

Round 3 Dawn of War, 4 objectives down the middle of the table): I played this final match against a friend of mine and had a lot of fun. His list was two Carnifexes, a Tervigon, a Prime, a Zoanthrope, some gargoyles some other stuff and a bunch of "devil" guants. The game went well for the Templar from the get-go. I deployed first and used a Rhino full of Crusaders to deny the center of the board, then on my turn everything rolled on. His army did a lot of the same, except he placed a Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard unit foreward on my right side. So I drove an LRC, Rhino/Crusader and EC at it.

 

Turn 1 shooting was a series of fruitless endeavors. Turn 2 was amazing for the Templar. A series of lucky Vindicator shots drifted into his Prime and Zoanthrope (which was giving most of his army 5+ cover) and pasted them. S10 = instant death! Suddenly, the center of his army was in very serious danger of being out of synaps!

 

In addition, the other Vindicators did some truely fortunate drifting and murdered swaths of Nids. The LRC and Vindicators were able to shoot the Carnifexes to death by turn 4, with them having not done too much.

 

A massive melee on the right (centered around my marshal and the Tyrant) went swimmingly well too. The Marshal and Tyrant were savaging each other and it was especially bad when a unit of 20 Hormagaunts came into the melee. On my turn I was able to charge the Hormagaunts with my EC/Crusaders. At that moment the Marshal was struck down, and the Tyrant was triumphant. However! The crusaders mulched the homagaunts and were able to force the Tyrant to take enough Fearless wounds at combat resolution that he died!

 

The game ended on turn 7 two to one! A victory! And, I just want to throw this out there: The only game I've ever won with the Emperor's Champion still alive.

 

 

Overall the tournament was fun and instructional. I like the list I have and may bring it again next month, just to see how it goes!

[Marshal Laeroth]

Sounds like you had a great time! Always nice to have the Black Templars represented at tournaments. :jaw:

 

While my Emperor's Champion lives about half the time, what I have a problem with is the guaranteed rolls I get from him in close combat. It never fails. I usually get 3 hits (even when being charged), but when I roll to wound...needing only 2's...I ALWAYS roll two 1's. Its like: Gah! You're killin' me. lol

[Ray_K]

Sounds like a good time. It's nice to hear success stories about vindicators actually doing damage and champions surviving the battle, lol.

[Wulff]

Grats and well played..

 

sounds like you had your hands full with the Nids..

 

Keep the good work coming!

 

Wulff

[Sn4k30r]

Nice one! Well done last sunday was a local tour here and in a game vs ultramarines my champion + 9 initiates killed 2 squads of marines +1 assault squad...!

 

After the 1st squad i had only the champion alive killing all of them aroynd him! was exciting! to hold 3 units with 1 Champion in a hill!!! :D

[Bettencourt]

Nice win.

 

However, would the Necron player with 2x Monoliths and a Deciever been a bad game?

 

Opinions anyone?

[Marshal Laeroth]

I don't think it would have been. The only thing that the Necrons have that can get into LRC is the monolith's particle whip (Str 9, so not likely) and the C'tan. The whip has short range and the C'tan is easy to avoid. If you ignore the Monoliths and the C'tan, and just focus on the warriors, they die fast. Especially in close combat if you can sweeping advance them with their terrible initiative 2 (they need stubborn really bad).

 

Necrons do well against some armies, but not well against others. I think Head Mook's army would have cleaned house.

[Messanger of Death]

Nice win.

 

However, would the Necron player with 2x Monoliths and a Deciever been a bad game?

 

Opinions anyone?

Indeed nice.

 

As for the Necrons. That many points not spent on increasing the Phase Out number is good. As long as Head Mook resisted the urge to charge into the Deceiver he would of been fine. Focus on the troops which fold like wet paper.

 

Messanger

[Head Mook]

I agree with your above assessments of the Necron, but it is important to note that he had been Castling up his monoliths and keeping his Warriors in reserve (and then deploying them insode of the castle) to keep them off the field. I would have had a lot of trouble with the Deceiver running amok until I could get enough of his warriors down.

[ShinyRhino]

Just an FYI...you won Game One. Units that are falling back at the end of the game count as destroyed.

[Head Mook]

Just an FYI...you won Game One. Units that are falling back at the end of the game count as destroyed.

 

Yeaaaaah. I came to that realization about an hour too late. But it paid out in the long run, because if I this guy had lost Game One he wouldn't have beat the raving &*))$&^ who would have otherwise won the tourney. I like to think of it as a moral victory.

 

For the Emperor! For Dorn! For Spite!

[Bettencourt]

Nice win.

 

However, would the Necron player with 2x Monoliths and a Deciever been a bad game?

 

Opinions anyone?

Indeed nice.

 

As for the Necrons. That many points not spent on increasing the Phase Out number is good. As long as Head Mook resisted the urge to charge into the Deceiver he would of been fine. Focus on the troops which fold like wet paper.

 

Messanger

 

 

I'll be honest, I have received some Necron models and I want to push them around. I would like to somewhat competitive and/ or a pain in the butt for my opponent. I know this is not the place to ask so I'll try and ask in a related topic.

 

 

The 2x Monolith Castle idea seems like it would be tough to beat. Will 2x Monoliths moving forward and slinging 2 pie plates a turn create any type of threat with a Deciever and some Destroyers backing them up? How do I stop that as a Black Templar? :lol:

 

Grats on having a good Templar day in the tourney.

[Head Mook]

Two Monoliths in a castle is difficult to deal with if you use them to protect your warriors from CC (by portaling them). I would skip the C'tan in this sitation though, only because it's going to eat up a lot of points and therefore reduce your Phase Out number (which is what every opponent in their right mind is going to be shooting for). Make sure you've got a Lord with a Res Orb

 

As a Black Templar the best you can do is clog the portal debark points (hence limiting their use) and mulch as many warriors as you can as quickly as you can. Ignore the monolith, ignore C'tan.

[Chaplain Dak]

with 3 vindicators you dont ignore the monoliths you wipe them out.

[Head Mook]

Vindicator v Monolith

 

BS 4 and allowing that 2" scatter will still keep the pinhole over top means that against a monolith your odds look something like:

 

Odds of a pinhole hit: 61.06%

 

Odds of a pen v AV14 with S10 Ordinance (glances are worthless against monoliths): 55.55%

 

Odds of a Destroyed: 33.33%

 

So: .6106 x .5555 x .3333 = 0.1130 or 11.3% per Vindicator

 

Which means that even if you fire every Vindicator every turn then statistically you've looking at 6 full turns of firing.

 

 

Oooooor you could spend 18 S10 AP2 pie plates pasting Warriors. =p

[Marshal Laeroth]

In my opinion, the only way to run Necrons right now is Destroyer wing. ;)

[Messanger of Death]

I'll be honest, I have received some Necron models and I want to push them around. I would like to somewhat competitive and/ or a pain in the butt for my opponent. I know this is not the place to ask so I'll try and ask in a related topic.

It is important to Know Thy Enemy. Including his different units and tactics.

 

To start off we will look at why the Monolith is bad. Not just because it uses up way too many points in an over-priced codex. But because it fails in performing anti-tank while at the same time taking up a Heavy Support slot that could be used by the more reliable Heavy Destroyers. Here is a link to a post by Chumby that explains why the Monolith sucks. It is critical you understand the importance of target priority, which Hod from YTTH talks about here. Ignore the Monolith and focus on the Heavy Destroyers, Destroyers, Lords, Spyders and even the Warriors. Anything that relates to the Phase Out number is your priority.

 

Now lets look at some Necron lists:

 

This one fits into the stereotype of Destroyer Wing. Lots of destroyer bodies providing mobility and ranged fire power. Unlike the Monolith with anti-tank that scatters. There shots will hit their intended target. Here is a brief tactica based off that lists which helps understand the thought pattern behind the list (and here is the first email). Also take a look at this deployment guide... deployment is a skill that is learnt over time. But it is extremely important for a general to understand.

 

And this list is another style of Destoyer Wing with an element of close combat capabilities. Edit - just realised I didn't include the link to this list. Something that Necrons are not associated with. Take a look at the designer notes below the list. There is a spot which is extremely important:

Where is the Res Orb, you ask? It's nowhere really, it's on a Lord in case you really really need it, but most of the time you won't and it will just be used to save your Lords. I've learned from playing my Necrons, that I don't *need* it very much. People who are stupid and shoot my Warriors in cover figure out quickly my Warriors don't do much and to shoot other things instead.

The emphasis was added by me. Although you should ignore Monoliths and C'tans. You should also, as a general rule, ignore the Warriors till after the dangerous threats are taken out. Those Warrior squads cost 180 points and offer very little to the Necron army other than scoring squads... over priced scoring squads. Fritz gives his thoughts on how keep them alive here.

 

Of course there are other builds that the Necron Codex have to offer. But they all suffer the same glaring flaw. The inability to reliably kill vehicles... which is bad in 5th Edition. But you have the Nightmare Build, Wraith Wing, and the terribad Destroyer Wing. It is the terribad Destroyer Wing for the simple reason it only has 3 reliable ranged anti-tank units as it is lacking Heavy Destroyers. Instead it brings a Monolith and remember they suck.

 

Messanger

 

Note - this is from the perspective of a competitive gamer.

[Bettencourt]

Wow, what a plethora of information. Thanks for taking time to help with all of that. I feel like I owe ya for a counseling session. ;)

 

I'm tired of Templar's.

I got a ton of Tau, and they suck.

 

I just bought some Necrons, and they "need help". I don't want to continue buying Necron models to find them useless after the new Dex.

Should I buy more Destroyers, Hvy Destroyers, Wraiths, or just wait for now?

 

Thanks for the help!!!

[Messanger of Death]

I'm tired of Templar's.

Blasphemy! However, keep in mind that it is easy to use other Space Marine codices with your Black Templar miniatures. Codex: Blood Angels and Codex: Space Wolves are two that are easy to justify from a fluff bunny perspective. While at the same time avoiding the task of ripping arms off your miniatures.

 

I got a ton of Tau, and they suck.

Spoken like a true Neophyte. But those miniatures are not a waste, unless you have the Vespid and Ethereal miniatures. In the near future I will be putting up a bunch of articles on my blog that I have gathered from the interwebz. However, here are some that may challenge the way you perceive the Tau Codex:

Armies in 5th Edition - Crisis Suits by Kirby

Armies in 5th Edition - Tau Fire Warriors & Piranhas by Kirby

Armies in 5th Edition - Tau Kroot & Defenses by Kirby

Armies in 5th Edition - Tau Railguns by Kirby

Armies in 5th Edition - Tau Makerlights & Commander by Kirby

Armies in 5th Edition - Tau Summary by Kirby

 

There are more Tau reviews by Kirby on this page. About half way down. The Space Marine reviews by VT2 are also turning out to be a great read. And if you really want some heavy reading with Competitive Tau lists, Battle Reports with Tau winning and even Tau Tactics. Then have a look through these posts on Tau by Stelek from Yes The Truth Hurts.

 

Cheers,

Messanger

 

Edit -

Should I buy more Destroyers, Hvy Destroyers, Wraiths, or just wait for now?

I don't play Necrons so I'm in no position to make recommendations on how to spend your money. But Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers seem to be a necessity in a balanced all comer lists. Send an email to Stelek from Yes The Truth Hurts. However, he seems to get so many of them that he may not reply for a month or three. Could also try and contact Dash of Pepper from Dakka Dakka. He has recently started collecting Necrons with the intent of playing them competitive and talks about it in this 11th Company podcast.

[Bettencourt]

Okay, I've listened to the above mentioned Podcast from 11th Company. Interview from a player named Dash of Pepper and here we go:

In 90% of the previous mentioned comments on Necrons, it has been said that the Monolith and the Deceiver suck...do not bring them. In the Podcast, Dash of Pepper has been undefeated (while not playing noobs per his statement). He is using a Deceiver, 3 Monoliths, 9 Wraiths, 3 Tomb Spiders, and a Destro Lord with 20 warriors. WTH??? Which is it? Don't use Deceiver and Monoliths, or use them in mass amounts? I need some direction here as the Podcast and the forum are a contradiction. And I just bought 8 Destroyers and I have zero Wraiths.

 

Apologies for this being on a Black Templar forum, but only people who play Black Templars are wise enough to offer intelligent comments with life's most difficult questions. As I'm sure most here will agree. I do play Black Templars 90% of my games.

 

Please advise...

[Marshal Laeroth]

Dash's list building skills have been called into question in the past, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. I'm no expert on Necrons (I do own the codex though), but based on my experience, I have zero difficulty with lists based around Deceiver/Wraiths/Monoliths (the army is called "Wraithwing"). What I do have much more difficulty (albeit, this still isn't a considerable threat) is Necron lists centered on destroyer lords, warriors, Destroyers (both), and sometimes immortals/tomb spiders depending on the points limit. These are called "destroyer-wings".

 

The problem with this list is that everything has the "Necron" special rule. In other lists such as Dash's, you rely on the Monolith and the Deceiver saving your warriors with trickery and portal-jumping (gives rerolls on WBB). Those armies still do not provide very good AT fire support, as destroyers are the only reliable source of that.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I'm tired of Templar's.

I got a ton of Tau, and they suck.

 

Our Dex will come, one day, one day *looks to the horizon*

The Wolves nearly stole me away, but I punched them in the face :lol:

 

Tau suck?

pfft! :rolleyes:

 

As well as all the good ones Messenger of Death posted, look at "Tau of War". He might be easier to follow and implement, though he is doing much of what Stelek and Kirby espouse.

[Marshal Laeroth]

I thought I lost you to the ravages of the Wolves!

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I thought I lost you to the ravages of the Wolves!

 

Haha.

Well, it depends what you consider as lost.

 

I think the Codex is good, but I'll only use it against my brother if I do use it. Well, that's the plan. :jaw:

 

I try to beat people up with Templars. I'm no tourney goer and would probably get schooled if I did, but the guys at the club [well, so far anyway] go down to C:BT and that is without using Assault Terms + LRC. No sense unleashing a more powerful Dex on them unnecessarily.

 

Until ours comes out. :jaw:

[Bettencourt]

I just want to say that throughout this discussion I have enjoyed the conversation and knowledge and links provided. Thanks.

I have researched the Necron builds and I understand the comments a lot better. Again, thanks.

 

Tau may not suck but I see MY issue. I have about $1000.00 worth of Tau (i use to own a gaming store) and I still need to buy more Tau stuff. Piranha's did not exist during my rein of madness. And I built my army without any Kroot at all. This may be part of my "Tau Suck" problem. No reliable "bubble wrap" and in 4th, Broadside's were just a LD check away from getting blasted. Other issues with Tau are me I'm sure...

 

After a few engagements, even against BA, SM, and the Wolves, Black Templars are doing very well in my area. They don't have as many toys etc, but sometimes that is a good thing. And sometimes KISS works. And sometimes having cheaper units to flood the field with is just better than all the gimmicks that may or may not work. Overall BT are still fun and effective and hard to beat.

 

Currently my MVP goes to two simple Land Speeders with a Multi-Melta. 65 points each to kill Landraider's and Russ's etc. Just seems to work and they are cheap.

 

Thanks guys...