Chaos Power Units

[minionboy]

So in the spirit of not complaining about the Dark Angels book, I've decided to put together a list of the units that I've found particularly effective for my Chaos Marines.

 

I think that when you actually break down the army and play a few games, Chaos is actually a decent book. Instead of having single powerful and expensive units, I think that Chaos Marines are actually a force of small, cost effective choices. Generally some of the best units in the book tend to be under 200 points. I think instead of trying to find one unit to beat one other unit, it's much more effective to use the army as a whole, take redundancies and find combinations that help you handle a variety of threats.

 

Here's the list I started with:

http://www.thediceabide.com/2013/01/chaos-in-the-40k-a-guide-to-power-units/

 

Let me know what you think, or if you have units of your own to add.

[Warmammer]

Nice review

[Brother Ambroz]

DP with black mace and daemon of tzeentch still has no invuln save so you'd have to give him aura of dark glory.

 

Plague marines are very good as usual.

 

MoN biker lords are very good.

 

Ectofiends are awesome, forgefiends can be decent sometimes.

 

All of this is well known though if you've been in this forum very long.

[Vomikron Noxis]

Quality review. Any chance of expanding it to include some lists?

 

DP with black mace and daemon of tzeentch still has no invuln save so you'd have to give him aura of dark glory.

 

He has the Daemon USR (5+ Invulnerable).

[Brother Ambroz]

Only in C:CD do they get the ++5 VN. Otherwise oblits would be fearless as well.

[Vomikron Noxis]

Nah brother, BRB p35!

[Nehekhare]

tanith: brb, p.35: 5+ invul and fear. it's a confusing term but please look it up before posting. also: ninja'd ;)

 

OP: alltogether good review.

 

I disagree about MSU CSM though, mainly because the havoc rhino isn't a las/asscan razorback. 5 PMs with 2 plasma and MBs are way more self-sufficient.

I am afraid the whole concept works better with ATSKNF/combat tactics. once we suffer losses, we lose performance or run for good.

and because of that succeptability to morale, oblits shouldn't be taken in units of 2-3 anymore.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Like it fella, have you got any army lists made?

[minionboy]

Quality review. Any chance of expanding it to include some lists?

 

 

Like it fella, have you got any army lists made?

 

Maybe in the future, I just put together a MSU list that I wanted to give a shot this week. I was mostly posting to find other people's powerful units as well!

 

I didn't put in Plague Marines, which is a funny oversight, I think i'll edit those in right now! How silly of me.

 

DP with black mace and daemon of tzeentch still has no invuln save so you'd have to give him aura of dark glory.

 

Yeah, as other people mentioned, he's a Daemon, comes with all the fun rules in the BRB.

[Brother Ambroz]

Hmm I'll look it up when I get home. Nehekare, it's a bit hard to look in the BRB at work.

 

I think oblits in units of 2-3 are still viable if you are feeling risky.

[Excessus]

A few pointers there: Why oh why did you have to use that horrid picture at the top? ;)

 

*ahem*, sorry, just had to get that out of my system! In other news, the jugger-axe lord is actually 7+d6 attacks on the charge. 3+1(two weapons) +1(jugger) +2(Rage)+d6(awesome axe)

 

Maulerfiends are nice, though they are brought down by the facts that: #1 they are in the heavy slots #2 they have sooo few attacks...

[minionboy]

A few pointers there: Why oh why did you have to use that horrid picture at the top?

*ahem*, sorry, just had to get that out of my system! In other news, the jugger-axe lord is actually 7+d6 attacks on the charge. 3+1(two weapons) +1(jugger) +2(Rage)+d6(awesome axe)

Maulerfiends are nice, though they are brought down by the facts that: #1 they are in the heavy slots #2 they have sooo few attacks...

Wow, totally forgot the second hand weapon, thanks for pointing that out, haha.

I generally agree about Maulers, but just running some math and they actually have a respectable chance of surviving some of the threats that seem to take down Chaos pretty well, namely Monstrous Creatures. Reducing a Trygon to a single smash attack is quite nice. I generally don't take it for the offensive power, but more for the ability to tie things up, it's really user discretion though, because if you're playing a more static shooting army, it's probably not a great investment, but if you're making an army focused around quicker units (bikers, Huron, etc.), then it's not a bad support choice.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Nice review, but when talking about having only 3 FA slots, its not true, don't forget that in 6th at 2000pts, you double your Army slots, so actually you have 6 FA slots.

[Sception]

Posted a reply to the article:

 

Obligatory champions + rhino havoc launchers not being very effective means I'm somewhat skeptical of your MSU CSM squads. If you're going that route, I think you're pretty blatantly better off with Plague Marines (fearless, more durable, 2xplas in 5 man squads). I still think 10x CSMs with 2x plas is the right way to go for them. Same amount of plasma, spreads out the cost of the champion a bit more, a bit chewier to deal with in assault, and you get a bit more mileage out of whatever you HQs can give them, which can be any of: hatred (loyalists), hatred (everything), fearless, outflank, infiltrate, psychic buffs. Matters more in 2k+ games, where there are more HQ slots and as such more HQ buffs to go around.

 

Definitely MSU on plagues/noise, though. And its the only way to run mutis. And it's worth considering for oblits as well, since they're subject to morale, now, though a need to fit as much firepower into my limited heavy support slots as possible means I don't typically run oblits in less than twos, myself, despite the risk. It also means I don't run maulers at all, though I might consider it in games over 2k points.

 

I'm not very impressed with maulers. They seem like nice support for spawn, but... Too few attacks to threaten anything other than immobile tanks, too low armor to be trustworthy at short range with plasmaguns, meltaguns, meltabombs, and heywire grenades running around, and the low weapon skill and initiative means many walkers and monstrous creatures will pulp it before it gets to swing if it ever has the misfortune of getting stuck in with them. And it's in heavy support, a slot that isn't exactly any less crowded with must-take options than fast attack. Maybe if it was in elites.... As it is, though, I just don't see it.

 

It could be I'm just bitter that we got two more AV12 walkers in an edition that doesn't exactly encourage their use when we had two AV12 walkers that we didn't get all that much use out of already. There are so many other things they could have added instead that would have done so much more for our army in terms of viability, versatility, and variety.

 

Otherwise, pretty interesting. I hadn't realized that counterassault or hatred automatically propagated from character to unit, I'll have confirm that when I have my BRB. Could change some things for how I use my HQs.

[khurdur]

I dont quite work out how giving a lord veterans of the old war automatically gives hatred to the whole unit as well....counter-attack is passed to the squad, hatred goes by model. Nice article though. I agree that oblits are awesome, so are khorne lords, and perhaps cheap marines, but they need veterancy.Bikers too are great in small or large numbers, they are very cheap (perhaps too cheap but its our turn to get something too cheap, thats 40k isn't it....)

 

I add my trick up my sleeve- 30-35 mark of Khorne cultists, led by Khârn. He gives the unit hatred and fearless, and they give him hundreds of bodies. Unless the enemy is packing lots of pie plates or flamers, they will struggle to handle that unit as it can have a huge footprint and close off large areas of the battlefield. I tend to use it to bottleneck marine plaers and counter deathstars are 60-90 hatred attacks from the cultists can usually kill 7 TH/SS termies. and Khârn is just awesome. The whole unit counting 30 cultists w/MoK runs you up 190p, dirt cheap.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

From this thread I have already decided I need Khârn in my life. It's just a shame I can do that x2 with another cultist blob

[Lepaca]

Hatred does work on a model basis. An IC with this rule does not transfer it to a unit he joins!

[Sception]

I thought so. Counterassualt, though, that's a nice thing to pass on. All the better for khorn lords escorted by spawn or cultists. Makes MoK kind of useless on them, though, since infantry speed cultists are unlikely to get the charge and spawn already have rage.

[Brother Ambroz]

Not really any point at all in giving spawn MoK or cultists really. Counterassault is nice though for sure.

[Brother Amarel]

I thought so. Counterassualt, though, that's a nice thing to pass on. All the better for khorn lords escorted by spawn or cultists. Makes MoK kind of useless on them, though, since infantry speed cultists are unlikely to get the charge and spawn already have rage.

Counter-Attack isn't passed on. While any unit with a single model with Counter-Attack checks, only those with the rule then get the bonus from it.

[minionboy]

I dont quite work out how giving a lord veterans of the old war automatically gives hatred to the whole unit as well....counter-attack is passed to the squad, hatred goes by model.

 

Hatred does work on a model basis. An IC with this rule does not transfer it to a unit he joins!

 

Yeah, I realized that last night, I was confusing myself while thinking of ways to justify the Dark Apostle, who transfers it because of Zealot. I'll fix that up now.

 

Counter-Attack isn't passed on. While any unit with a single model with Counter-Attack checks, only those with the rule then get the bonus from it.

 

Wow, good catch! I'm going to have to edit that article a bit now, haha.

 

This is exactly why I like to talk about my posts with people on B&C, there are always things that other people catch that you can easily miss if hastily read.

 

Thank you all for the feedback! I think I need to convert up Khârn now...

[Sception]

Argh. OK. So neither hatred nor counter attack passes on. Well, that saves me time rethinking khornate lord with unmarked unit combinations. Dang it, Minion, you almost had me thinking there was another neat possibility with a little potential I had missed in this book, like when people started pointing out MSU nurgle muts.

[Brother Ambroz]

Well at least Khârn's hatred is still passed on because of his Warlord trait. Then again though, you have to use him as warlord in order to get this.

[minionboy]

Argh. OK. So neither hatred nor counter attack passes on. Well, that saves me time rethinking khornate lord with unmarked unit combinations. Dang it, Minion, you almost had me thinking there was another neat possibility with a little potential I had missed in this book, like when people started pointing out MSU nurgle muts.

 

Haha, sorry about that! Khârn however still gives hatred to his whole unit, for what it's worth.

 

I've got some Mutilators that I should be trying soon, they seem like an interesting diversion at the very least, for 61 points.

[Sception]

I don't really rate the Chaos land raider as a functional melee transport, so even without passing on hatred, Khârn needs an escort to combat. Cultists seem like the best choice for that, even if they don't get anything from Kharne other than fearless (unless he's your warlord). Regular CSMs still work, but I'd rather run kharne to get him to combat sooner, while I prefer a nice leisurely stroll for CSMs so they can still fire their bolters & plasma.

 

Berzerkers would be the fluffiest, but they're just 20 point Khornate CSMs who lack bolters and plasma, and that's just unacceptable. Especially when Kharne starts killing his own crew after he gets to combat.