A_POINTED_STICK Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Origins: -I'll change Calth to Prandium for diversity. -I'd argue twelve hundred isn't that bad. Dante is over twelve hundred and looks younger than marines half his age. He's a vampire. Apollonius was a white haired squinty old marine who gets killed by generic Orks. -I like calling the Primarchs by their Epithets to make them more mystical but I see your point. -Lesbos? Died in a good or a bad way? :P Battle Doctrines: -War Hounds is a typo. -I should clarify that the chapter doesn't use Servitors and uses Chapter Serfs instead. So they have ship crews that are much larger. They're trained to repulse boarders and such and any sort of engineering work the marines would bring in Servitors for on the ground. Like I said support. -Ministorum is a typo. I meant Munitorum. Organization: I didn't use any RW names just influences :) I just came disgustingly close. I'll try to screw up their spellings more 40k. There are too many planets with silly names. Santa Anna combines the Spanish General, Annapolis the seat of the Navy, and Queen Anne's Revenge the ultimate pirate ship... I think I did as good a job as GW does. "Birmingham the Black Planet" "Minogue K" "Valhalla" "Flight of the Eisenstein" "MARBO" "Marneus Augustus Calgar" etc. But I'll tamper with it more until I'm satisfied. I thought that I'm diversifying the inspirations to create new characters is alright. For example Legree Horace is Horace Greeley mixed with Simon Legree but his character is inspired by a young George Patton. Zachariah Tayl is Andrew Jackson but named otherwise. J.O.B. is probably too thinly veiled although as 9th company I made him more of an artillerist instead of a dashing assault marine. Ulyxes Gustav is vaguely Grant but Ulyxes is a Greek Hero and Gustav is a Big Gun. Macleod is a rip off. But that's about it. My inner military history/Guard fan is showing I guess. Its less complicated than it sounds... (It's not.) I can probably keep it out of the IA. I'll revise it later. Tibi gratias ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 -I'd argue twelve hundred isn't that bad. Dante is over twelve hundred and looks younger than marines half his age. He's a vampire. Apollonius was a white haired squinty old marine who gets killed by generic Orks. Blood Angels are famous for their longevity due the gene-seed flaw. The "normal" lenght of life for Space Marine is about 500 years. His age is twice this number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_POINTED_STICK Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 And yet Grimnar is over seven hundred and Lysander as well and there was a ten thousand year old salamander wasn't there? ^_^ Ultras are short lived now but perhaps they don't make them like they used to... Or I go unorthodox with chapter master dread. Basically I need a marine who served under Guilliman to be around for the third founding. Or I come up with new origins entirely which I'm loath to do but I see the flaw. Technically I wanted my marines to have short brutal lives and then die but the founder bucks that so I need to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I think you need to change the reference to Lesbos - it completely interrupts the suspension of disbelief and probably prompts giggling in 90% of your target audience. "Maximus Superbus" sounds like a giant Autobot or a bus-hire company run by Russell Crowe. The Organisation section, with the breakdowns of company composition and commanding officers etc doesn't fit in an IA - I like your chapter as it is now, and find them interesting, but honestly couldn't give a monkey's what the name of the Fifth Company captain is. Nothing wrong with liking that level of detail about your guys, but that's a subject for a subsequent article, not their IA. Would also vehemently disagree that they're too "rough and tumble" for ultras and therefore need to be Fists. The Mortifactors are a second founding Ultras founding and are way more out there than this. Ultras are not boring clones or robots. Really like this - the highlights for me so far are the bit about the founding CM and his dogs and glorious death*, and the "hive of scum'n'villany" home world. Cut the organisational stuff that is too detailed for an IA, refine the names a bit and looking good. * - I see both sides of the issue re the Chapter Master's backstory and his age for a third founding. It's a :D of a dilemma because as I said, in my view I thought the bit about him was some of the best stuff in this so far, and having him having known Guilliman and fought in the HH and scouring adds to this. But 1200 is very old. I'd be tempted to go with the rule of cool and make him that old and go with it, or honestly, move this back to the second founding. They're Ultra descendants so it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_POINTED_STICK Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 I think you need to change the reference to Lesbos - it completely interrupts the suspension of disbelief and probably prompts giggling in 90% of your target audience. "Maximus Superbus" sounds like a giant Autobot or a bus-hire company run by Russell Crowe. Not my fault that my target audience are sex deprived teenagers... Lesbos is a nice island in Greece. Only a pervert would think otherwise. I'll pick another one but I won't be happy about it... Maximus Superbus does sound stupid. I'll just go and turn it to English: Maximilian the Arrogant. The Organisation section, with the breakdowns of company composition and commanding officers etc doesn't fit in an IA - I like your chapter as it is now, and find them interesting, but honestly couldn't give a monkey's what the name of the Fifth Company captain is. Nothing wrong with liking that level of detail about your guys, but that's a subject for a subsequent article, not their IA. Yeah I'm just laying it out. It won't be in the final IA. Would also vehemently disagree that they're too "rough and tumble" for ultras and therefore need to be Fists. The Mortifactors are a second founding Ultras founding and are way more out there than this. Ultras are not boring clones or robots. Really like this - the highlights for me so far are the bit about the founding CM and his dogs and glorious death*, and the "hive of scum'n'villany" home world. Cut the organisational stuff that is too detailed for an IA, refine the names a bit and looking good. * - I see both sides of the issue re the Chapter Master's backstory and his age for a third founding. It's a ;) of a dilemma because as I said, in my view I thought the bit about him was some of the best stuff in this so far, and having him having known Guilliman and fought in the HH and scouring adds to this. But 1200 is very old. I'd be tempted to go with the rule of cool and make him that old and go with it, or honestly, move this back to the second founding. They're Ultra descendants so it's possible. Yeah it's a problem. 1200 really is pushing the lifespan of a Space Marine. The Ultramarines are not particularly long lived and my chapter I originally thought should be short lived and brutal. I've always viewed Cervan Dante's longevity as being more a matter of his apparent youth (the Angelic/Vampiric Blood Angel virtual immortality thing.) The fluff implies Dante is 1200 and you'd never know it. You've got Logan Grimnar with a raging white beard and Ulrik the Slayer is most likely over a thousand as he was (according to some fluff) a Wolf Priest before Grimnar was even chosen. So Marines can live that long it's just a matter of crazy skill. When I go into more detail it will be the tragic death of an old man (in this case centuries after his prime) going down without the glory he deserved, cut off from his comrades and torn limb from limb. This scene is sort of the thing I am imagining. (skip to like 2:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVeg78Yfp7g with flash backs of fighting the Word Bearers and Iron Warriors and such going through his head as he gets mauled. Every Marine can't die in a blaze of glory like the Crimson Fists... I think the Fall of Malvolion with the Lamenters is what Marines should be about. The guys brave or crazy enough to brave anti aircraft fire in a relatively tiny armored Lunar Lander and charge out in their space suits blasting away at disgustingly overwhelming forces with a stupidly powerful SMG. That's one of the themes I want to be present in my final version. A chapter which takes brutal poundings regularly and keeps getting back up. Not because they're cursed like the Lamenters or Crimson Fists or eschew tactics like the Flesh Tearers or Black Templars. I've always felt Marines should be losing utterly or pulling off miracles by the skin of their teeth. The "Ubermarines" thing takes away from what they are. They should be the proof of just how dire things are, not the shining paladins who always win. The Imperial High Command ought to have a phrase "It has come to the Astartes" when a situation is utterly hopeless. Marines are the guys who snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Nothing more. Thanks for the review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Not my fault that my target audience are sex deprived teenagers... Lesbos is a nice island in Greece. Only a pervert would think otherwise. Or someone, who is learned in the ancient Greek poetry and knows Sappho. Yeah. :D Edit: The association is here, you cannot deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Not my fault that my target audience are sex deprived teenagers... Lesbos is a nice island in Greece. Only a pervert would think otherwise. Or someone, who is learned in the ancient Greek poetry and knows Sappho. Yeah. :devil: Edit: The association is here, you cannot deny it. You don't even have to be "learned in ancient Greek poetry..." because anyone who knows anything about ancient Greece or reads historical fiction will know it. Associations are not always bad though, but how badly this might clash with the rest of the article I do not know as I have yet to read it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I wouldn't go over the 1000 year age for your guy as it clashes a little too much with the established fluff of Dante being both the oldest space marines currently and in history as well. This is mainly due to them being killed before anyone can ascertain their true age-limits but that's not the point. Anything under 1000 years should be fine, the amount of time itself isn't really the issue though, it's how you write it. A span of two years can be a hell of a lot more influential than a span of a hundred given what happens during that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_POINTED_STICK Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 It said Dante is the oldest ever? I don't remember that. I know he's the oldest alive but my guy is long dead. If that's the case I'll try to shorten it. I don't want to contradict Matt Ward. :P smh (especially since they're inconsistent by a factor of several hundred years how old Dante is it's a bit hard to swallow.) My gut says 1200 is as far as I can push it without being stupid. He's a scout in the last 50 years of the Crusade, rises to relatively young Veteran Sergeant because he's a natural leader by the end of those 50 years. Then the Heresy happens followed by the Scouring which are a matter of decades all told? (I blame the short lengths of the Crusade and Heresy etc on FTL warp travel screwing with the timeline...) Anyhow he's fighting alongside the Ultras against the Word Bearers and Iron Warriors, the Alpha Legion and finally the Emperor's Children and then Guilliman dies. He's broken by the death of it. He's the fifth captain at the time. Centuries dredge on and he's one of the oldest marines in the chapter, a relic of a bygone era but he refuses to be a Chapter master because he doesn't feel worthy to walk in Guilliman's vaunted power sandals... He's over a thousand, his body is beginning to break down, he's on rejuvenatory treatments in addition to the gene therapies Marines already undergo. He's summoned by the High Lords by name to train a chapter of the third founding. Numerus Sexaginta Sex LXVI or as they were nicknamed, the "Lex Vies" takes command of them and within sixty odd years is dead. So that's more like 1100 I guess. That's old as dirt but younger than Dante who has been Chapter Master for that long. Plus Dante is perfectly fit and undefeated in battle, he is a fire still burning bright whose finest hour still lays ahead. Apollonius doesn't really step on his toes as he's an aging vet who has watched the Imperium grow, splinter, and worst of all stagnate and who leaves an uncertain legacy which shapes his chapter to be fatalistic yet at the same time idealists; clinging on to their honored traditions in the face of hopelessness. It's that human spirit thing of a captain refusing to resign himself in a storm. You know full well you're going to die, and you know there's nothing you can do about it so you take the helm like you have a thousand times before and steer towards its heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I like the Theoden-style reference. The aged king shakes off the frost/dust of ages for one last heroic charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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