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Templates and LoS


Jacinda

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Its on page vi under the bold heading "Tape Measure", exactly as cited. The page is helpfully titled 'What You Need'.

 

Remind me, what page do The Rules start on?

Page vi - for newcomers, and anyone needing a primary in playing games - according to the Introduction in the rulebook on Pg.iv.

 

Unless you're going to claim that you don't need any of the things detailed in these early pages - such as dice, a tape measure, an army, or an opponent...

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Doesn't what is being discussed here allow a unit with template weapons to fire at two targets?

 

For example my Tac squad fires at Fire Warriors 20in away. They unload with their bolters and the flamer dude fires, he finds himself out of template distance but places it anyway. Over the unit of Kroot getting ready to charge.

 

Just offering another view/point.

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Doesn't what is being discussed here allow a unit with template weapons to fire at two targets?

 

For example my Tac squad fires at Fire Warriors 20in away. They unload with their bolters and the flamer dude fires, he finds himself out of template distance but places it anyway. Over the unit of Kroot getting ready to charge.

 

Just offering another view/point.

Which a standard ability of Template weapon, they can affect multiple units beyond the Target unit. Yes, it is open to abuse when read this way. And yes, I'm sure it was never the intent of the writer for it to work this way. But, yes that is the way the RAW can be read.

It's so much fun when GW rules writers come across as having spent 15 minutes banging on their keyboard before heading fown to the pub to spend the evening getting hammered with the editor who then went home and proofed the rules whipped up earlier in the day. :tu:

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Its on page vi under the bold heading "Tape Measure", exactly as cited. The page is helpfully titled 'What You Need'.

 

Remind me, what page do The Rules start on?

Page vi - for newcomers, and anyone needing a primary in playing games - according to the Introduction in the rulebook on Pg.iv.

 

Unless you're going to claim that you don't need any of the things detailed in these early pages - such as dice, a tape measure, an army, or an opponent...

 

I'm not going to claim that you don't need them but they don't form part of the rules, which clearly start on page 1. If the best anyone can come up with to justify this tactic is using a basic introduction to the hobby that is not even part of the rules then I don't think there's much of a debate to be had.

 

Let's face it. Anybody attempting to use this tactic is at best exploiting a somewhat dubious interpretation of the rules or at worst cheating.

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There's nothing dubious about it.

 

And there is specific rules in the book that say distance is measured with a device marked in inches. There is nothing that says 'template' is a distance or tells you how to measure it. Pretending there is has nothing to do with the RAW but is clearly the Rules As You Would Like Them To Read. 'Template' is clearly a rules set that you are supposed to refer to, and as it is placed in the 'range' entry instead of the 'type' entry for the weapon, it clearly replaces a range characteristic. Ie, template weapons don't have a range characteristic, they have special rules instead.

 

Its also abundantly clear from the rules on template weapons that once you place the template you are in the 'rolling to hit' phase, as detailed in the Template weapon rules, and already past checking range.

 

So no, i'm not depending on page vi for my interpretation. Page vi just makes it abundantly clear exactly what acceptable ranges are and how you are expected to measure them. There is plenty of support for my position on page 29, the actual rules for firing a template weapon. The counter-interpretation has offered not a single rule quote to support its position - nowhere in the rules does it say you do or even can use the template to 'check range', nor that legitimate ranges can be expressed in something other than inches.

 

That distances in the game are expressed in inches is pretty basic to the rules - its assumed although not outright stated in Measuring Distances on page 3. (Probably because they already told you that you need a measuring device marked in inches on page vi... hmm...). You're going to need substantial direct evidence to argue for 'template' to be an actual distance.

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Seriously though, I can't find the part about tape measures. Is it in the big rule book? Or the small one that comes with Black Reach?

 

Also, does my template become a range finding device if I mark it in inches?

 

Its in the big rulebook. Page iv says introduction, which is a 2-page spread. Page vi says 'What you need' and is also a 2-page spread.

 

Marking your template in inches (1) Does not make 'Template' a valid game distance, (2) Does not compel your opponent to use your template, (3) Would allow you to measure other distances (up to 7.5") such as troop movement. Ie, it would be a valid measuring device for things the game recognizes as distances if you choose to use it as such. Multipurposing the template does not change the rules for Templates nor Measuring Devices.

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One more question.

 

If I use template weapons like this, will people still want to play with me?

 

I play the RAW to the best of my ability to determine and I expect my opponents to do the same. Unexpressed intention is unknown and therefore meaningless.

 

I don't want to play with people who _don't_ want to play with the rules as written. Would you play chess against someone who didn't think castling queen-side was intended? (Yes, I've actually heard someone object to castling queen-side before).

 

If something is truly unclear (this isn't), I'll roll off for it. But I'll try to figure out what the rulebook actually says on the matter (is it really unclear?) after the game, and if my opponent is someone i know i'll discuss it with him later. Hopefully we arrive at the best possible play version (the one closest to what the rules say) without the bias of a game-in-progress clouding our judgement.

 

Anyone who is honestly interested in playing the game with the rules it has shouldn't object to actually following them. Houserules need to be clearly stated before games begin, its unfair for all parties to not have had the rules available beforehand (whether or not they comprehended them, they at least had them to read).

 

So let me turn your question around: Would you play with someone who didn't want to follow the rules as written without first discussing his houserules and getting your agreement to play with them - just sprung them on you as they came up?

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Would you please refer to actual rules?

Which of my quotes from the BRB aren't?

 

The template is clearly not the range because of page vi under "Tape Measure": "A tape measure or some other measuring device marked in inches is required to measure movement distances and the ranges of weapons." (Emphasis added).

 

(1) All distances in the game are given in inches because the only proper measuring device is marked in inches. Anything not given in inches (eg, "Template") is not a range because it cannot be measured by a game-legal measuring device.

(2) A template is not marked in inches, and therefore is not a measuring device and *cannot be used to measure range*.

(3) You are "required" to use a "measuring device marked in inches" to "measure ... the ranges of weapons". That's really unambiguous.

amusing, but not really backed by the rules, the template ( a device used to measure from GW) and the rules on templates tell us clearly that it is used to measure the templates 'range'.

 

Thus, you cannot check range by using the template according to the rules, as it does not qualify as a game legal measuring device. Nor is 'template' a valid range.

Untrue and a rather silly point of view.

 

The template rules necessarily tell you to skip check range, because they give you no measurable range to check. 'Template' is not a range, its a rules set that replaces the range rules. ie, when you go to use a template weapon, you get to the check range step, see template, and refer to the templat rules description and do what it tells you rather than checking range. As the template rules do not tell you to check range, you don't.

Again not true, the template is the range.

 

Further, the game provides no alternative to measuring distance. All distances are measured in inches. Period. Anything not given in inches cannot be a 'distance' according to the game terminology and cannot be measured by the procedures laid out in the rulebook.

You would be correct except when using a template, with the rules do allow.

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Template is not a range. Template is a set of special rules that replace range.

 

You have given no quote demonstrating template is a range.

 

You have given no quote telling us how to measure range for template weapons.

 

The game is pretty clear that only measuring devices marked in inches are legal measuring devices. Templates are not "a device used to measure from GW", they are a device used to determine who is hit by a template weapon. If it was a measuring device from GW it would be marked in inches, as per page vi. Templates are not marked in inches, are therefore not measuring devices, and cannot be used to measure distance. Page vii says you will need a template and blast markers to play, making them categorically distinct from measuring devices as a required material.

 

Your quote from page 29 does not demonstrate template is a range. It demonstrates the word template is placed in the 'range' category to denote the weapon type. That section of rules proceeds to describe exactly how to use a template weapon. No method is given by which to check whether targets are in range or not. As 'template' is a set of special rules, its rules replace all the rules from firing starting after checking line of sight.

 

Language deconstruction on page 29: There are significant things to note about the sentence "They are indicated by having the word 'template' for their range instead of a number." First, the rule doesn't say the range *is* template, it says a weapon type is indicated by having 'template' for a range. Second, its "the word 'template'", meaning its referencing a word template, not that the physical template is an actual measure. "the word 'template'" is not a length, and that's what the rules tells us the 'range is'. Not the physical template, but the word template. If we interpret this as a true range, its unmeasurable. It clearly means exactly what it said earlier, that its indicating that the weapon is a template weapon, not giving an actual range. IF template weapons were meant to have range and follow the range rules, they would give the length of a template as the range, and give 'template' in the "type" column. That they choose to replace range with a reference to a special rule set is telling and definitive (and its explicitly stated to be a reference, as it 'indicates a template weapon').

 

Even if we assume template is a range, no method is given to measure that range. The only rules for measuring distance use a measuring device marked in inches, and 'template' is not a measure in inches. The best you could possibly prove is that template weapons cannot fire, which is strongly argued against by the fact that the template rules lay down a perfectly logical and implementable method of firing that simply doesn't check range.

 

TLDR; Please show me where in the rules it explicitly instructs you to *measure range* with a template and explains how to do so. Otherwise its not permitted under the rules. When I'm asking for 'actual rules', that's what I'm asking for.

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Its on page vi under the bold heading "Tape Measure", exactly as cited. The page is helpfully titled 'What You Need'.

 

Remind me, what page do The Rules start on?

 

 

The first thing I thought of when I saw this was 'The front cover, where it tells us we are using a 40K rulebook, and not a a 40K expansion or other game, as denoted by the logos.'

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When you shoot, it says measure range. Since a template is resolved as a shooting attack, and the only step it mentions skipping is check to hit, you should have to check range. Since under the word Range on a weapon profile is the range of that weapon, and for template weapons that range is Template, that means the range is Template. If templates were seperate rules, there would be a dash for the range value, and template would be listed after as a special rule, like Sniper or Rending.
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When you shoot, it says measure range. Since a template is resolved as a shooting attack, and the only step it mentions skipping is check to hit, you should have to check range. Since under the word Range on a weapon profile is the range of that weapon, and for template weapons that range is Template, that means the range is Template. If templates were seperate rules, there would be a dash for the range value, and template would be listed after as a special rule, like Sniper or Rending.

 

Please show me where the game permits you to measure range with something other than a inch-demarked object

 

It specifically says that a template weapon is indicated with the word template, not that template is literally the range. That interpretation has no weight whatsoever

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Except for where the range is listed as template.

 

Range is not "listed" as template. "They [template weapons] are indicated by having the word 'template' for their range instead of a number." (p29) Indicated is the key word. Its telling us that the use of template there merely designates special rules instead of being an actual range.

 

Edit: And that still doesn't provide a procedure by which to measure range with a template nor does it permit a non-inch demarked measuring implement to be used in the game. Game-legal measuring implements for measuring all distances are *required* to be marked in inches as per page vi.

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Template weapons are indicated by having the word Template as their range, yes. If I make a box and label it range, anything I put in there is going to be the range if the weapon. That's why Snipers have a - for Strength, and are said to be counted as Strength 3 for vehicles. If a template weapon had no range, there would be a - in the range box. But there isn't. There's the word template. Just because something is indicated by that, doesn't mean that the location of the indicator is disregarded.
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Template weapons are indicated by having the word Template as their range, yes. If I make a box and label it range, anything I put in there is going to be the range if the weapon. That's why Snipers have a - for Strength, and are said to be counted as Strength 3 for vehicles. If a template weapon had no range, there would be a - in the range box. But there isn't. There's the word template. Just because something is indicated by that, doesn't mean that the location of the indicator is disregarded.

 

Please tell me where the game tells us how to measure 'template range'. Be specific. (Quote with page number)

 

(Edit: I fundamentally disagree, given the language of page 29. Template is clearly not a range but a signifier of special rules. But for the sake of argument even granting your claim leads to an impossibility because the game never tells us how to deal with 'template' range).

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First off, the reason I had so much trouble finding the "rules" for Tape Measures is because I'm in fact looking at the Tiny Rule Book. This Rule Book is described on the Games Workshop website "...contains all of the information you'll need to play the game proper." Since the Tape Measure article is not in this small book which contains all of the information needed, then it must not be part of the rules of the game, and is rather a description that uses suggestive words. Anyway, moving on.

 

"Ranges are all given in inches. If the weapon’s range is given as ‘Template’ then the weapon fires using the teardrop-shaped Flamer template (the exact method is explained later)." (Pg 27, TRB)

 

Alright. So while this has said that ranges are measured in inches, it has also said that if the range is given as template, they fire using the template. Nowhere does it imply that there is no maximum range, it simply defers us to a later description of using templates to fire. Nowhere in the rules does it say Template is a special rule. It's an "Additional Weapon Characteristic" (Pg. 29, TRB)

 

 

Now I'm going to follow the procedure for processing this attack that would take place during a game.

 

So let's get ready to fire my template weapon. For convenience, I've picked a standard Space Marine Tactical Squad Flamer, and lucky me, I didn't even have to pay any points for it. So I fire my Flamer. Let's refer to the 6 steps to shooting provided in the rules:

 

THE SHOOTING SEQUENCE

1 Check line of sight & pick a target. Pick one of your units, check its line of sight and choose a target for it. All models in the unit that can see at least one enemy model in the target unit may open fire.

 

Oh goody, my Space Marine can see the target unit, although it's a fair distance away. But I open fire anyway.

 

2 Check range. At least one target model must be within range of the weaponry of your firing models.

 

Since I am a newer player, I'm not familiar with the profile of my flamer, so I crack open my Codex and look it up. A hah! There it is. Since I'm checking range, I'll check the range value on the profile. But what's this? There's no number! Instead, it just says the word Template. I immediately grab my rulebook and go to the page with the rules for checking range, hopefully they can answer my query. On page 17, this is what I read:

 

"All weapons have a maximum effective range, which is the furthest distance they can shoot. If a target is beyond this maximum range, the shot misses automatically. This is why you have to choose your target before measuring the range."

 

Furthermore:

 

"Any model that is found to be out of range of all of the models he can see in the target unit misses automatically – his shots simply do not reach."

 

While this may be helpful later, this isn't the information I need! I flip further, looking to the descriptions of weapons. I come across this, on page 27:

 

"Ranges are all given in inches. If the weapon’s range is given as ‘Template’ then the weapon fires using the teardrop-shaped Flamer template (the exact method is explained later)."

 

Now I stop and think for a second. If the weapon's range is given as 'Template', then perhaps it's range IS the Template! Just as my given name IS my name. But, it says it will be explained in detail later, so I put my assumptions aside and flip further, digging for the solution to my problem. Then I find it; the Holy Grail of Template weapons, the "Additional Weapon Characteristics" section of page 29. In big letters it says TEMPLATE to me, and I read:

 

"These are particularly indiscriminate short-ranged devices, such as flame throwers, which affect a broad, cone-shaped area represented by a template (see diagram). They are indicated by having the word ‘template’ for their range instead of a number. Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models."

 

From this I learn that a template weapon doesn't have a number for a range, but has the word "template". Nowhere does it tell me that a flamer has no range, or that I do not check range for it, so I am confused.

 

 

That's how we get here. To this argument. Now let's look at everything regarding templates and ranges.

 

"All weapons have a maximum range" Template weapons are not given an exemption.

 

"Ranges are all given in inches. If the weapon's range is given as 'Template' then the weapon fires using the teardrop-shaped Flamer template." This seems to contradict itself, suggesting that while all ranges are in inches, some are given as 'Template'. I can see "Range is given as Template" > "Range given as template" > "Range is template" being drawn from this. I cannot see "Range is given as template" > "Template weapons do not check range".

 

"These are indicated by having the word 'template' for their range instead of a number." What's more important in this part isn't what it says, but more what it doesn't say. While there are suggestions to support that the Range is the template such as "...'template as their range" there is no implication whatsoever that "Template weapons do not check range".

 

I find that looking at the weapon profile really settles this. The box reserved for the range of the weapon is filled with 'Template'. To anyone, this would imply that the Range = Template, just as when 48" is in that same spot, people know that Range = 48".

 

Templates are not exempt for checking from range, so we check. Since template is given as template, then the weapon fires using the teardrop. The word template is there instead of a number, so it must be taking it's spot and the role that comes with it, acting as range. Since we must check the range, and we have no number, we should use whatever is most heavily implied to be it's range, and that is the template.

 

Edit: Spelling errors

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Your logic problem is as follows:

 

All ranges are in inches (true). Therefore template is not a range. It has "the word 'template'" in the range spot instead of a number - this wording implies that template is rules which supersede having a range.

 

Template is a set of special rules. You refer to the template rules as described on page 29 and fire it according to those.

 

Do note that page 27 specifically says about firing template weapons: "the exact method is explained later." The page 29 rules are the "exact method" of firing a template in whole. They do not mention checking for range, so checking range is not part of the "exact method" for firing template weapons. I might further note that page 27 uses the wording "If the weapon's range is given as 'Template'". If 'template' was a range, it would simply say "If the weapon's range is template." The wording chosen makes it obvious that Template is a ruleset that replaces range but is not a range. Ie, every time they talk about 'Template' as a "range" entry, they talk about it as if it is not in fact a range but a signifier for something other than a range. (Page 29 as well, where it tells you a template weapon is "indicated" by "the word 'template'" entry under range - no such linguistic acrobatics would be necessary if 'template' was itself a legitimate range).

 

What page 29 tells you is to place the template and maximize the number of models touched in the target squad. 0 is a valid maximum. Template weapons do not check range because they are given no range (all ranges are given in inches!) and have no instructions on how to do so. Instead, the rules for templates implicitly skip that part.

 

Once you put the template down you are in the 'rolling to hit' phase, as described in the template rules. You are not allowed to put the template down before this step. Therefore, You can't know if the maximum models touched by the template will be greater than zero until the 'rolling to hit' step of the shooting phase.

 

I really can't state it any clearer than that. Nothing you want to do is supported by the rules, which explicitly tells you that all ranges are given in inches. Ergo, anything not in inches IS NOT and CANNOT be a range. This is pretty basic logic. All X are Y. Z is not a Y. Therefore Z is not an X.

 

Which of course brings us to the reason why template appears under range instead of type. Because Templates replace (and ignore) the range rules, it makes sense to place the special rule designation under range so there is no confusion (haha) and you can immediately reference the correct rules (the rules on template weapons) instead. If templates followed the range rule, the actual range of the template (7.5") would be given under range (so it could be measured according to the rules) and 'template' would appear under the type column.

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Sorry, PyronusSouria has nailed it.

 

It's your logic that is at fault.

 

Therefore template is not a range.

 

Actually it is a range. The 'range' is the inches covered by the 'Template' Tear Drop. All of it. Not just a single straight line measured by something like a Tape Measure or GWs little red sticks.

 

And this is where your whole argument falls down.

 

the actual range of the template (7.5") would be given under range

 

No, because that would only be a straight line of range, not the whole area of the Template.

 

Oh and a Template needed to be marked in inches;

 

A template is not marked in inches

 

Then you need a new Template. :tu: Mine is. Down one straight edge, it has a Inch ruler on it.

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You know, I think everyone is getting hung up on bits of the rules that don't really relate. Let's try it this way:

THE SHOOTING SEQUENCE

1 Check line of sight & pick a target.

2 Check range.

3 Roll to hit.

4 Roll to wound.

5 Take saving throws.

6 Remove casualties.

Let's take this process step by step and see where it breaks down. For this excercise, I'm going to not debate whether "Range=Template"/"Template≠Range" or whether "tape measure=legal measuring device" or not, because I think they're side-issues. I'm also not going to go into Steps 4-6 as they don't seem to be a part of this issue.

 

Step the 1st : Check line of sight & pick a target.

Let's assume for this exercise that you have checked line of sight, and found a valid LOS to an enemy unit. You pick this unit as your "target unit".

Are we all good with this, so far? No disagreements yet? Moving on.

 

Step 2 : Check range.

Normally we would pull out our measuring device of choice and if the target unit is found to be outside of the range of any of the weapons firing we would determine that those weapons "automatically miss". In this case we find that the target unit is X" away.

Are we all good with this, so far? No disagreements yet? Moving on.

 

OK, but one of the models is armed with a Flamer. We look at the maximum range of the Flamer to determine if it is in range, and we find only the word "Template". Now is the Flamer in range or not?

- Some of you know that the Template marker is ~7.5" long. But I challenge you to give me RAW that states that the Flamer's Template marker is 7.5" long, 3" long, or 24" long. Can't do it, can you? Because there is no RAW which tells us this. So how do you know if the Flamer is in Range or not, by using the distance between closest models with your measuring device of choice? By RAW, I don't think you can.

- Some of you (include some from the sentences above who ackowledge that they don't yet know if the weapon is in range by RAW) will now state that you find out if the Flamer is in range by laying the template down and seeing if any unit is covered by it.

But I refer you to the rules in the BRB, Pg.3 "In general, players are not allowed to measure any distance except when the rules call for it (e.g. after declaring an assault or firing at an enemy, to work out a rule's area of effect, when deploying their forces, etc)". Thus if you are measuring range, the weapon has fired - according to this rule.

And the rules in the BRB on Pg.29 "Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models." The Template weapon rules don't allow you to place the Template until Step #3 Roll to hit. You are left in an inconvenient position of wanting to know if the Flamer is in range with no way of determining the answer by RAW.

- Thus we have no RAW way of determining if the Flamer is in range, or if its shot is an "automatic miss".

- Even if we were to concede the point that the shot "automatically misses", the rule is "Any model that is found to be out of range of all of the models he can see in the target unit misses automatically - his shots simply do not reach." But were does this state that the Template is not laid or is "taken back" and affects nothing? It doesn't.

OK, moving on.

 

Step #3 : Roll to hit

If we've gotten to this step, we've bypassed the part about "automatic misses" and we have been told repeatedly that the Flamer has "fired". We are now allowed to lay down the Flamer template to detemine who is hit (as the template replaces the dice for this determination).

- There is nothing in the rules for this step which account for the Flamer Template not reaching any models in the target unit.

- There is no allowance for picking the template back up and declaring the template doesn't affect anything.

- The rule simply states "Instead of rolling to hit, simply place the template so that its narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit without touching any friendly models.". So if the maximum number of models in the target unit which can be covered is zero (0) and you don't touch any friendly models you are complying with all parts of this rule.

- The rule then goes on to state "Any models fully or partially under the template are hit.". Full stop. If any models (even ones not in the target unit) are fully or partially under the template.

 

So my challenge is this :

Give me a RAW which

1> Tells us the maximum range of the Flamer's Template is 7.5" so we can declare if the "range" of the Template is <x" measured above.

2> Affords us the opportunity to place the Template during Step #2 check range. Where we can determine if the shot "automatically misses".

3> Allows us to remove the Template after finding no models in the target unit touched by the legally placed Template and "take away" the firing of the weapon.

If you can give me RAW which does any of those three things, I will concede the point - otherwise it stands that GW has written a bad rule (shocker, huh?) which can be manipulated to allow any unit armed with Template weapons to "split fire" with it. Because if we can't determine the the Flamer is or is not "in range" and we can't place the Template until the weapon has "fired" and any models touched by the Template are affected with no recourse to pick the Template back up and "undo" the shot" we are left with a process which results in this situation.

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Geez dswanick, at least give us a tough one....lol

You place the templates narrow end against the firing models base (unless we are talking about a Hellhound or the like)

You then move the template over the target unit to cover the maximum models.

If no models (in the target unit) are covered by the template then the 'shot' misses automatically.

 

The template is the range... it is very simple.

 

You are overthinking this......the squirrel is just being silly.

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Geez dswanick, at least give us a tough one....lol

You place the templates narrow end against the firing models base (unless we are talking about a Hellhound or the like)

You then move the template over the target unit to cover the maximum models.

If no models (in the target unit) are covered by the template then the 'shot' misses automatically.

 

The template is the range... it is very simple.

 

You are overthinking this......the squirrel is just being silly.

So did you even read my post? Because I laid out all the elements in a pretty clear order.

- "You place the Template's narrow end against the firing model's base" - during Step 3 Rolling to hit. It says so right in the rule. But how, by RAW, did you get to Step #3? I feel like this is turning into a Montey Python skit : "And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

- And when "you move the template over the target unit to cover the maximum number of models" after Step #2 has been completed and find that the "maximum number" is zero, what (by RAW) do yo do then?

- And where in the RAW does it tell us that an "automatically missed" shot from a Template allows us to take back the Marker and not wound any models that were touched when you placed the Marker in Step #3?

 

- As for "The template is the range" - plesae post a citation were the RAW tells us that the value "Template" is less than or equal to X" in my above example.

 

Come on Seattle, you've usually got better reasoning skills than this. You usually will admit when the RAW is insufficient, before going on to agreeing that while the intent is pretty clear the rules are not.

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