Project Thunderhawk

[maverike_prime]

So, I am beginning work on the Thunderhawk. At this stage what I am doing is taking the paperhammer template and building the model in sections on card stock. As I complete each section I will then reverse engineer it to understand how the parts go together, how they accomplish that, and why they are designed that way. Then I have to figure out if I can accomplish the same thing in Plasticard and Styrene and if so; how?

 

So here is my first effort: The Engine.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tr-tFTEK92M/UB3mYze3s5I/AAAAAAAAALY/C8iCvmFb4UE/s1600/DSCN0381.JPG

(Rhino Chasis provided for scale)

 

This piece has been constructed out of cardboard stock and assembled based on the instructions in the plans. I made a couple mistakes along the way but this is the part of the project to make those. So with the part built I then began studying it to determine what I want to do with the design in styrene.

 

So I went into photoshop, pulled the page with the plans over into it and began to break it down and make notes about it. This has provided me a set of parts and plans that I can use to assembling a list of materials.

 

So... the insanity begins.

[maverike_prime]

So I've been working on the Thunderhawk project. The designer of the template, Patoroch took a noteworthy approach to his templates and created a 3 part template. Part 1 provides the parts and the plans for the cockpit, part 2 the fuselage and part 3 the wings and engines. In a simpler template such an approach wouldn't be an issue in the slightest. But Patoroch's templates are very detailed and frequently have parts numberings in the hundreds. So my first real step was taking his 3 templates, stripping out the colored parts and the plans from the templates and assemble a file that was nothing but the black and white line art parts. I printed that out and have been building the pieces in sections.

 

So the section I'm building now is the lower deck of the forward section:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3EIerccUbRs/UCHPj_F9l-I/AAAAAAAAANM/TiwsatTJe7c/s1600/DSCN0385.JPG

 

Here is the lower section as it stands now. As I build the model in card stock I'm making notes about how parts go together. One of the big things I want to do in my plastic model is to build the interior details. This is really the challenge of the project at this point. Deciding what I want the interior details to be. You see, Patoroch's templates are layers of details on top of one another. This approach works quit well with paper and card stock. But it's rather limiting when it comes to plastic. You can't have round cables with card stock for instance. When working with plastic you can file down the edges to make it a rounded shape, which is something you can't do with paper or cardboard.

 

So I'm building the cardboard model as it's intended to be built and in the process making notes about what I want to do with the plastic version. One of the big things is that I want to add cables, monitors and interior lights to the plastic model. I've even considering wiring up actual lights for the interior.

 

For the power cables such for the interior, I think I'll using Dragon Forges' small and medium cables. I'm thinking about building a large monitor bank for the interior as well, a bit like the bank of monitors on the inside of the Land Raider model.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3EIerccUbRs/UCHPj_F9l-I/AAAAAAAAANM/TiwsatTJe7c/s1600/DSCN0385.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sliKyz1tOYU/UCHPkn7rXfI/AAAAAAAAANU/s_P_NMSfnvQ/s1600/DSCN0386.JPG

[Grotsmasha]

Nice one Mav :)

 

I'll be following for sure.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Montuhotep]

Ambitious for sure, though you seem methodical enough about it - more than me, I'd just hack at the plasticard right off and screw it up horribly.

 

Good luck with this one!

[whiteraven17708]

consider this followed!! good luck with it, please be very decriptive with your step by step so I can attempt one myself :)

[maverike_prime]

consider this followed!! good luck with it, please be very decriptive with your step by step so I can attempt one myself :D

 

Nice one Mav :)

 

I'll be following for sure.

 

Cheers,

Jono

 

You guys may want to follow my progress on my blog then. Since I'm working on this project based on a paper hammer template and that is a bit of a grey area between allowed and not-allowed here on B&C, I'll be editing what I post here to make sure I don't get banned. I've had three threads purged in the last year and yeah. I really need to watch my caboose.

 

 

Ambitious for sure, though you seem methodical enough about it - more than me, I'd just hack at the plasticard right off and screw it up horribly.

 

Good luck with this one!

 

Thanks for the lead in Paladin.

 

So I've run into the first real problem with translating a paper template to a thicker medium:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-a8eDGjP-WEo/UCPC0ROZIgI/AAAAAAAAANs/gHQtOsOLAS8/s1600/001.jpg

 

Yep, the spacing. See this template was designed for paper witch is very very thin. I'm not sure of the actual measurement, but for the point of discussion we'll say it's 1 sheet thick. The card stock I've using is mostly cereal boxes and the like which appears to be about 15-20 sheet thick. The way this template works is by layering shapes ontop of on another to create raised and recessed details. With some details being 3 or even 4 layers on top of one another that's a 4 sheet height. Cool.

 

Now take the exact same plans and apply them to card stock which is about 20 times as thick as a sheet of paper. You've got part 3, on top of part 2 on top of part 1. And each is 20 sheets thick. A better explination might be a visual explanation:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-if85FTXBp5I/UCPE2RjYltI/AAAAAAAAAN8/K8F7_Rb9AI0/s1600/paper-compare.gif

The image on the left is a series of 1pixel wide shapes stacked on top of each other, while the one on the right is a similar lay out but with 20pixel wide blocks. You can see how the difference in thicknesses adds up, and quickly. Now take this, and compound it by 3 and 4 sub structures and you can wind up with parts that are out of alignment by as much as a 1/4 inch and you have followed the directions perfectly.

 

This is really the crux of why I'm doing this prototype model in cardstock rather then jumping into plasticard. This project is going to take a lot of plasticard and I want the plasticard version to look built, not slapped together. And I don't want to waste a metric crap ton worth of plasticard either.

 

As an aside I've been thinking about lighting. I mean wiring up the model with LEDs and lights.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0dp6yl4E_48/UCPJ5gCvlaI/AAAAAAAAAOU/Lhx9d1YBlPA/s1600/lighting.gif

 

Operating purely on the "This would be awesome" level of planning right now, I'm looking into having 3 circuits in the finished model. The first circuit would be internal lighting for the cockpit and lower deck with an on/off switch, the 2nd circuit will be a pulsing circuit and will be the engines, while the third circuit will be on an active switch. The idea being I can turn the lights on in the cockpit and lower deck, I can press and hold a switch and the inside of the thunderhawk cannon barrel will glow red, while if I flip the third switch the interior of the engines will pulse blue/white.

 

Now I admit that lighting plan is well above my electrical skills. Hell skills make it sound like I actually know what I'm doing with electronics. All I can do is wire a switch and light to a battery pack. But I also like challenges and I am pursuing several avenues to help me with this.

[KaiserTJ1860]

Working purely off my secondary school education I dont think its too hard to wire a led to a switch + power supply. from what I remember you do need a resistor, not sure what value though. There are kits for this sort of thing:

 

Flashy

 

The electronics arent too difficult. I'd love to see how you get on

[maverike_prime]

Working purely off my secondary school education I dont think its too hard to wire a led to a switch + power supply. from what I remember you do need a resistor, not sure what value though. There are kits for this sort of thing:

 

See that is actually more then I know. LED, I know what that is. Switch, yep got that. Power supply, yeah a battery. Resistor? Couldn't ID that on a Radio shack wall with out the package being labeled. the Value of it? I don't even know what values a resistor uses.

 

Flashy

The electronics arent too difficult. I'd love to see how you get on

 

Thanks for the link to the site. I'll look through it and see what I find. My big problem is since I know almost nothing about electronics, if the kit doesn't already support what I want to do (3 circuits, 2 on flip switch, one on a press switch, one circuit with 27 LEDs on it that pulse in a given order) I don't know how to modify it to accommodate those.

[Midnightmare]

You are certifiable!! Good luck with an ambitious project, it is looking good already :D

[Subtle Discord]

Damn, this takes me waaay back. Paper building was where I cut my teeth, on my way to building all sorts of things with all matter of other materials and tools. There's so much to learn with just humble paper and cardboard. And, there's nothing like the satisfaction of making something from essentially nothing.

[KaiserTJ1860]

Hehe I believe they use Ohms, as in our dear chaosey Primarch's nickname (should be). The pulsing one is a little bit more difficult but the circuit for the on and off lights would look like this:

 

Power supply -> Switch -> Resistor -> LED -> back to battery.

 

I think. I could be wrong but its a very simple circuit even if the above isnt right. Its just a matter of having the right values for the components

 

TJ

[Janitor101]

This project looks to be excellent, I'm going to watch this topic closely.

Also, do you think you could link the files you're using to create the Thunderhawk with? I'm itching to give it a look over and see if its a project I can do at some point. Or if I can modify it to work with the true scaled marine force I have in the works.

[maverike_prime]

Also, do you think you could link the files you're using to create the Thunderhawk with?

 

No. I can not do that on B&C.

[StrayCatt]

That is correct ... No links ... And asking is a bit of a no-no as well.

 

Having said that, it is worth checking out his blog, as there is a wealth of additional information on what is involved in the build there.

 

I am considering tackling the same project in the near future alongside a Thunderbolt.

 

-Adam

[maverike_prime]

So 15 ounces of white glue and about 20 hours of work... and the cockpit is about 90% complete. Well the cardboard version is anyway. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YQW7Zdm8ly8/UCXZxYYKndI/AAAAAAAAAPE/L3wUSshWDBs/s1600/IMAG0153.jpg

I included the Land raider in the image for scale purposes. As you can see, the Thunderhawk forward section absolutely dwarfs the Land Raider.... which kind of makes me entertain the idea of building a second one and converting it into a Land Raider. Hmm interesting thought... will need to explore it.

 

Anyway, the last big things to do on the forward section are the forward stabilizers, and the forward gun mounts, but I think I'm going to hold off on the gun mounts for the immediate moment. One of the things I want to do, either with this particular project or down the line, is to build a model for my Thunderhawk Hunter apoc unit I developed, a Chaos dedicated Anti-infantry air craft armed with a mass missile launcher and several heavy machine guns (think of Reaper Auto-cannons on crack). So I may try to build the weapon mounts to be removable.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c4LC8sGO3HU/UCXZz6j1qrI/AAAAAAAAAPU/z1BPiaWGIx4/s1600/IMAG0156.jpg

 

The interior is fairly well detailed thanks to the very detail heavy approach that Patoroch takes with his templates. It's partially frustrating because it means you can build 50 parts, attach them... and still not finished the one wall. But as you can see it leads to some great detail and I think will give me a great guide to follow as I advance into styrene.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T0diqdjIqbs/UCXcX59tmOI/AAAAAAAAAPw/NIdXdvrsUOQ/s1600/IMAG0158.jpg

 

The canopy bracing was an absolute pain to cut out and I had to replace my exacto blade three times in order to keep the cuts neat and even then I failed a couple places. If you look closely you can see where I had to use a strip of paper to re-attach a broken strut.

 

Something I want to try is building a control panel with in-set screens. What I'm thinking of doing is cutting out the holes for a screen, in-setting a sheet of clear styrene, and then affixing a decal to the back of the clear styrene for the monitor graphics. That way I can put a light or LED under the console and have the light come from the monitor.

[grandmaster lisander]

looking good brother!

[maverike_prime]

So, the first section of the Thunderhawk is complete! http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KRGtRgXdU0g/UChoI4SIykI/AAAAAAAAARA/Qjp_5E4TXKQ/s1600/DSCN0001.JPG

 

The first template covers the forward section including the cockpit. There are several places where the translation from paper to cardboard is evident. In order to address this I will have to adjust widths and depths of certain parts for the translation to styrene. This is the main reason why I'm doing this in cardboard first. So I can find these problems. Can't fix a problem if you don't know it's there right?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KGrG00dYRx0/UChoR_5S0SI/AAAAAAAAARI/XOhkIcm6EKM/s1600/status-01.jpg

This is a representation of the level of completeness of the model based on the template.

As an aside I have completed gluing all the remaining parts to cardboard. Here is the stack of cardboard for the remaining Thunderhawk:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PPfCnfZdd5Q/UChpw9y5dcI/AAAAAAAAARQ/nZLDwi1q9wI/s1600/IMAG0159.jpg

[maverike_prime]

So now with the first section of the cardboard Thunderhawk complete I move onto the next template which covers the main body. This is proving to be an new sort of challenge even this early in the construction. Here's why: The first part the template has you build is comprised of 4 large flat sections attached at the edges. The difficulty of this is the fact that cardboard tends to curve when it's saturated in glue. So now this first section is built out of 4 large flat sections that are meant to be attached on the edges, that's curved and warped. So how do I deal with this?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e2SkJll8MKk/UClb8U-FQxI/AAAAAAAAARs/Sg1VsEwHEM8/s1600/DSCN0004.JPG

Lots of braces, weights and pressure points! This is where the real challenge of building cardboard models, finding a means to hold the parts in place while the glue sets.

[maverike_prime]

So the work on the body continues. The way the template is laid out you start with a rather complicated long box:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5PUIR2UfzPA/UCrvEipE7SI/AAAAAAAAASk/lrnDslDWxDE/s1600/body-plans.gif

 

and then other sections are added to the box to create the main body of the thunderhawk:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ypj9KTG0Ypw/UCrvEZjT1gI/AAAAAAAAASc/RYhKR29SB5M/s1600/body-plans-2.gif

 

where each side of the box is largely supported by a series of triangular braces. Now considering that this template was intended to be used with paper, and not cardboard, it's a good design move to help keep the body rigid. I'm honestly not sure how well that would work with paper, I haven't tried it. But using the same planes with Cardboard, doesn't yield a particularly sturdy body. This is mainly due to cardboard's tendency to warp and bow when it's saturated with a liquid. I don't know if this will be needed when I make the transition to styrene, but as a planning point I would consider building a reinforced frame for the interior body. A series of 2-3mm thick 'ribs' that form the inner structure of the box and then affix each panel to that structure. Like this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oGRuRc4LDtY/UCrzSjPOklI/AAAAAAAAATA/yi1Uk2HXZlo/s1600/body-plans-revised.gif

 

The next problem this approach leads to has to do with what I call "seam mating". The idea of seam mating is where the edges of two sub-structures are intended to met up and align properly. if you look at the image of the main body with the extra components, you can see you have the main box, a pyramidal structure attached to the back, and then a raised rhombus atop of the box. The edges of the box, rhombus and the pyramid are intended to meet and mesh together. But once again the tendency of cardboard to warp becomes a problem. So I needed to install base decking to make sure the respective sub-structures kept their shape.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1wpK4FbhOXM/UCl5F_hjuiI/AAAAAAAAASE/UYQIcAl5zWI/s1600/DSCN0005.JPG

 

A series of 1/2" wide strips scored appropriately and glued into place did the trick well enough. Though when I make the move to styrene, such a simple fix won't do the job. So I may look at building an internal structure for all the sub-structures making their seam mating one of planning rather then necessity.

[Montuhotep]

For what it's worth I'm thinking that filling this thing with as much reinforcement and bracing it can handle when you get to the styrene is the way to go here.

 

Have you thought about using some Plastruct pieces? Their I-beam and truss pieces would be of use with this, I think.

[maverike_prime]

For what it's worth I'm thinking that filling this thing with as much reinforcement and bracing it can handle when you get to the styrene is the way to go here.

 

Have you thought about using some Plastruct pieces? Their I-beam and truss pieces would be of use with this, I think.

 

Sorry Paladin, my original message came across way too arrogant. I didn't intend for it to sound so dismissive.

 

In a more appropriate response to your question: Yes. I am looking at the plastruct pre-rendered pieces. The I-beams will definatly hold the weight of the body. There is no question of that. The second thing I'm trying to keep in mind is housing for the electronics. I need to have space for the battery pack and have that battery pack be accessible.

[maverike_prime]

hmm the joys of insomnia...

 

Remember when I was talking about having to come up with odd ways to apply pressure to items while glue set? I think I've found the best of the best (so far):

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_YldcY4juTk/UCr6m68NDCI/AAAAAAAAATs/8Af2-NiN61s/s1600/DSCN0011.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IM2kx2vAK4A/UCr6hGSqkpI/AAAAAAAAATc/Xx6bsb3euYY/s1600/DSCN0006.JPG

Yup! That is a medicine bottle being pressed into the side of the Thunderhawk by a rubber band, and a tail fine being held in mid-air by a series of 3 mini-bar clamps.

 

The medicine bottle pressure point is to hold a flat panel against the side of the body while the glue dries. The angle of the body is wonky enough that I couldn't get a clamp around it, and a rubber band wants to slide up and off the panel. The tail fine is being held in mid-air because there are a series of points that need to be glued down and allowed to set.

 

I don't think I can actually get away with posting the rest of the information I had in mind here because it would require referencing parts from the template and B&C has a big no-no on posting template information. So I'll have to point you at my blog for the rest of my thoughts that came about tonight.

 

==> The Resurrected Hobbyist

[HumanSupreme]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_YldcY4juTk/UCr6m68NDCI/AAAAAAAAATs/8Af2-NiN61s/s1600/DSCN0011.JPG

Geez, it'd probably take longer to read all the warning labels on that pill bottle than to assemble a Thunderhawk. :D

[maverike_prime]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_YldcY4juTk/UCr6m68NDCI/AAAAAAAAATs/8Af2-NiN61s/s1600/DSCN0011.JPG

Geez, it'd probably take longer to read all the warning labels on that pill bottle than to assemble a Thunderhawk. :D

 

Yeah thats what you get when you use medicine bottles that were used to house meds for a 96 year old mental grandmother

 

And things are taking shape now. With the main fuselage section mostly built, it has come time to connect the forward section to it!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DU198I8APdM/UCvSXl9TZuI/AAAAAAAAAVQ/VDy6difv1RA/s1600/DSCN0015.JPG

At this stage it looks more like some sort of futuristic submersible then an orbital lander. I image the addition of wings and engines will change this but time will tell. I am putting some thought into the idea of making a Space marine amphibious assault craft based on the thunderhawk template. *shrugs* Something to mull over.

[Pall Ironbear]

Great job so far m-p, impressive stuff