Macragge's honour - What is wrong with BL?

[Týr]

Why oh by Odin why do they do this?

Why does awesome things like this have to be so limited edition that only the rich kids can afford it.

I had been looking forward to this. 

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/macragges-honour.html

[daveNYC]

50% more than any of the Absolute Sandman (or whatever) volumes.  Impressive.

[Reyner]

I don't think it will be limited forever. They can't be that evil...

[corai]

Does anyone know if the intention is to release a none ltd ed version in the future? I'd really like to read it, and no doubt it would look great on the shelf next to the other HH collectors stuff from FW/BL but I'm struggling to justify the price tag for a graphic novel which won;t take me nearly as long to read and enjoy as the FW books or collected visions

[Grimdarkness]

Sorry I well never pay more then 30 bucks for what come down to little more then a comic book. Sad to think others well fork over that kind of money though.

[chaplainmikey]

Sorry I well never pay more then 30 bucks for what come down to little more then a comic book. Sad to think others well fork over that kind of money though.

 

I don't think it's  'sad' at all. Yeah, the price is steep, but some people get genuine joy from owing and reading graphic novels/ comics, regardless of the price and availability. 

I don't agree with the price point but I won't begrudge those willing to pay for Maccrage's Honour. ;)

[Conn Eremon]

WHOA. $125 for a graphic novel? You can cut that in half and I would still laugh in their face.

[daveNYC]

A fair chunk of people enjoy owning comics specifically due to the lack of availability.

 

Still, the price on this is way off in super fanboy land.  

[Redemptor Nemiel]

I always like to guess how much Black Library will charge before I hit the order now button and find out, I was way off the mark. I thought £30 to £40? But £75? Really? Why does everything have to be limited and bounf in leather, no one cares.

[Kais Klip]

Super fanboy here, the kind that shouldn't and normally doesn't think twice about that, but this one went right over my head.

 

I was expecting a bloody pamphlet no bigger than a WD :cuss, not 100 pages of good-but-not-quite BL front covers.

 

BL is going full out American on this one, I want a medium happy meal, not a super sized one with silver embroidering on the fries!

[Emperor's Scourge]

It's sad that this is the venture that BL clearly :cuss the bed on.  I was looking forward to their line of graphic novels for the HH, but...no :cussing way.

 

They better put out a cheaper version...and by cheaper I'm not saying 50USD.    They're not even attempting to match the market value of a comic book.  The hubris is astounding.  Watchmen is 416 pages for 20 USD.  There's obviously a disparity in quality between that comparison, but that's my point really.

 

When is GW, as a whole, going to understand that only a small minority of their fanbase gives a :cuss about shiny thick paper?  We don't need leather bound volumes with silver gilt edging.  We just want to read their damn books.

[Kais Klip]

Someone please defend BL, I have all this angst and no one to shake my finger at.

 

I swear if they gave me just fifteen seconds in that stuffy little room with all those chairs I would walk out either the hero of the fan base or the universe altogether.

 

You have an author recognised for his mastery at the comic book format.

 

You have an artist that not only is enthusiastic about drawing sh*t, but has others that are enthusiastic about the sh*t he draws.

 

You have an untapped market for said format in your home country.

 

Your target demographic loves said format as shown in the US of A.

 

How short does the stick need to be thrown for you to chase it!?

 

The thing is, I would buy a piece at that price if it wasn't as lavishly decorated as it is; I'd be fooled once more by the hope that maybe, maybe this one is worth it like the 2 Istvaan pieces so far. And I'd be willing to be fooled again. But how much resin residue do you have to inhale to forget to release the regular edition alongside the collectors edition? Atleast have the audacity not to label it as a collectors edition!!

 

Gah, it's all the fault of space wolf fans.

[helterskelter]

The most I have ever spent on a graphic novel was 20 quid it was so thick it could be used as both a doorstop and a weapon of xenos beating caliber. Ive also purchased genuine leather jackets for less money. The non limited version better be at the live event in march...

[Scribe]

$150 eh? 

 

So a little less than a Fire Raptor, or Storm Eagle, and a bit more than a Sicaran.

 

If I bought comics, considering the desensitization I have now due to building up a nearly pure FW HH army? Sure why not.

 

EDIT: Thats what you folks need to consider when looking at the price. The people who ARE buying up this :cuss, dont really care about the cost.

[Kais Klip]

$150 eh?

 

So a little less than a Fire Raptor, or Storm Eagle, and a bit more than a Sicaran.

 

If I bought comics, considering the desensitization I have now due to building up a nearly pure FW HH army? Sure why not.

 

EDIT: Thats what you folks need to consider when looking at the price. The people who ARE buying up this :cuss, dont really care about the cost.

I'm one of those people though, and I have talked and raged just now to 7 other guys that are those people, and 5 of them are definitely not buying where one is unsure and one might. I will proclaim that 8 of us represent that smaller target market that these exclusives are aimed at, and I will say that unlike the 2 Istvaan books out so far, this and the collected visions all suffer from the lack of guarantee of quality to justify the prices. There is no precedent to guarantee their quality.

 

To put in a line we are scared to buy because to us, BL is vividly trying to justify the price point via "OCD Collectors Edition" phrasing and the very nice format the work is presented in, and not the quality of material within (as was the case with the Istvaan books). The problem is their marketing, not the price point. They are failing to bedazzle the "collector market" with this and Collected Visions, they are failing to BS me and my pals like they succeeded in BSing us with the Istvaan books (and I'm planning on buying all of them).

 

In short, my buyer's regret is a heretic, and you're p*ssing on the flame I'm trying to burn him with, BL.

[depthcharge12]

I thought that comic books were supposed to accrue in value over time.

 

 

 

Despite it being wonderfully made, there's no way you can justify 100+ bucks for that. I'd rather get one of the new Horus Heresy books and a squad of models.

 

 

I'd like to hear what Jaspcat thinks because he seems to enjoy getting all the BL literature

[Scribe]

I hear you Kais, and I too am one of those buyers. Your point on the promise of quality stands. I guess I'm not tempted because I'm not a graphic novel kind of guy.

[Kol Saresk]

My problem with the price would be comparing to similar items in the same medium.

 

Spawn. Deluxe Hardcover Edition. Covers 25 issues. Has issues 9 and 10 actually reprinted, which has been done since like their original run. Has ~620 pages. Standard retail price is US$100. Most places sell at 35% at US$61 and some change.

 

Usually the only time comics hit the $100 range, is when they're huge. But when they're just 100 pages, they're in $30 range, not over $100. For this specific medium, I honestly believe BL is currently overselling itself.

[depthcharge12]

Me, as someone who is pursuing an economics major, tries to logic through BLs decision.

 

 

Its almost well past the pricing point where people are willing to pay. The demand for the product is quite elastic (though games workshop acts as though its product is inelastic despite being a niche, an inelastic is one where they just about charge you any price they feel and you will still pay).

 

 

Even the reasoning that selling less product at higher prices to get the same results is silly, especially since it sounds like it is a collector's item and few people will be purchasing it.

 

 

 

 

I stand on the verge of laughing, waiting for GW to say that they're almost out of stock from people buying this in droves, when in reality close to 0 people are buying it.

 

I can see right through your business strategy GW and its laughable.

[Kol Saresk]

I can get "less for more". Its done all the time. Its just usually more reasonable. But for the exact same medium(graphic novels/comic books/whatever-you-call-it), this is just so far out of the ballpark NO! that I don't think it can be justified.

 

Everything that I have seen of comic books that are comparable to this item(100 pages, hardcover) are US$15-30. Actually, I'm pretty sure the US$30 is for more than 100 pages. Hitting the US$100 usually means novel-sized page numbers. Not to mention, being a collector's item made to be more valuable than the other collector items. Not to mention being something that is printed as a "to create interest in something already printed while giving the hardcore fans something new", not an opening blow.

 

Sorry, but there is no logic behind this move.

[helterskelter]

Going to cross mediums here, hollywood in its glorious wisdom with its 16 week window usually releases the basic dvd first alongside whichever other medium (blu ray, 3d dvd what have you) and special versions coming out later or near holidays (eg lord of the rings extended editions with statues). Now me being a pillock I have lotr and the funky special, why? Because I wanted to watch it asap at home, then those statues were ace and I wanted to see the special gubbins.

now back to BL, why can't they release the legend editions first ie accessable to everyone, then later us crazy special things seekers, apart from shouting twelvety, say ooooo shiney id like that too. I'd see that as a cash cow personally. Though I will never spend 75 quid on a comic book unless it was hand delivered by kate bush.

[Zincite]

Someone please defend BL, I have all this angst and no one to shake my finger at.

Since you asked so nicely, I'll be the bad guy. Shake your finger allll you want.

You're all comparing it to comic books. This isn't a comic book. Black Library doesn't make comic books. It's made graphic novels in the past but it doesn't pay much attention to them - and this isn't even a graphic novel.

It's something special, something only within the Horus Heresy. It's like any collector's edition item - you don't pay the price because the item is actually worth it. It's likely you could buy something just as good for tuppence. But you buy it anyway because it's connected to something you enjoy, because you like the feeling of being 'special' or because you want the 'whole collection'. Perhaps you only buy it because you like whatever it's connected to so much that you don't want to feel you're 'missing out' by not buying it.

Now, this isn't just a normal Horus Heresy book with pretty edging. They're pulling out all the stops. You can only order it for a limited amount of time, your copy will be printed specifically because you ordered it and they're throwing in 'extra surprises'. It's a luxury book in leather binding, the coffee table kind. Plus it hasn't just got the story in it - it's got the sketches and scripts in too. Plus it's a Graphic Novel, which is something completely new to the Horus Heresy and rare enough in the entire Black Library.

It's special. Games Workshop prices things according to how special they are, 'cause they know people will pay what they feel it's worth rather than what it is worth materially. This is particularly the case here because this item is so friggin' special that people really will feel they're missing out unless they buy it.

And £75... isn't that bad. The Horus Heresy fans have proven they're willing to splash down cash. £70 each for a Forge World book. Unless you're buying your units piecemeal it's likely any order for your army is going to hit £100+. And honestly - people buy Titans in this hobby. That's one heck of a pile of money. If you consider what some people spend £75 seems almost like small change. (Although I'd like to make it clear I'm not being judgemental about other people's spending. Very much so about my own budget, but not yours.)

Plus, look at what people spend on the normal limited editions. £35, isn't it? Two of those beauties and you're at the same price tag as Macragge's Honour. Even the standard Hardbacks are £20 - and people must buy those. And while those are limited, they're not collectors. They're 'Oh, I really want that. Maybe I'll treat myself', but they're not at the level of 'I GOTTA have that, man!'.

... That's about all I can think of. Start your finger-shakin', if you're still in the mood.

[Kais Klip]

Someone please defend BL, I have all this angst and no one to shake my finger at.

Since you asked so nicely, I'll be the bad guy. Shake your finger allll you want.

You're all comparing it to comic books. This isn't a comic book. Black Library doesn't make comic books. It's made graphic novels in the past but it doesn't pay much attention to them - and this isn't even a graphic novel.

It's something special, something only within the Horus Heresy. It's like any collector's edition item - you don't pay the price because the item is actually worth it. It's likely you could buy something just as good for tuppence. But you buy it anyway because it's connected to something you enjoy, because you like the feeling of being 'special' or because you want the 'whole collection'. Perhaps you only buy it because you like whatever it's connected to so much that you don't want to feel you're 'missing out' by not buying it.

Now, this isn't just a normal Horus Heresy book with pretty edging. They're pulling out all the stops. You can only order it for a limited amount of time, your copy will be printed specifically because you ordered it and they're throwing in 'extra surprises'. It's a luxury book in leather binding, the coffee table kind. Plus it hasn't just got the story in it - it's got the sketches and scripts in too. Plus it's a Graphic Novel, which is something completely new to the Horus Heresy and rare enough in the entire Black Library.

It's special. Games Workshop prices things according to how special they are, 'cause they know people will pay what they feel it's worth rather than what it is worth materially. This is particularly the case here because this item is so friggin' special that people really will feel they're missing out unless they buy it.

And £75... isn't that bad. The Horus Heresy fans have proven they're willing to splash down cash. £70 each for a Forge World book. Unless you're buying your units piecemeal it's likely any order for your army is going to hit £100+. And honestly - people buy Titans in this hobby. That's one heck of a pile of money. If you consider what some people spend £75 seems almost like small change. (Although I'd like to make it clear I'm not being judgemental about other people's spending. Very much so about my own budget, but not yours.)

Plus, look at what people spend on the normal limited editions. £35, isn't it? Two of those beauties and you're at the same price tag as Macragge's Honour. Even the standard Hardbacks are £20 - and people must buy those. And while those are limited, they're not collectors. They're 'Oh, I really want that. Maybe I'll treat myself', but they're not at the level of 'I GOTTA have that, man!'.

... That's about all I can think of. Start your finger-shakin', if you're still in the mood.

*shakes* Aaaagh you young people with your logic and your sense... you'll never understand....

Ok from the point you're coming from I completely understand, 75£ is reasonable from that perspective.

But it's not reasonable if BL wishes to dip its toe in the comic book industry, and I thought this was heralding that move (read my 15 second pitch).

And I never read comic books, apart from the kiddy ones you got in the UK.

All I want is more Neil.

Wait don't post th-

[depthcharge12]

@Zincite

 

Aye but the FW books have rules and fluff. I use the FW book more than I could liberally guess at with the comic book.

 

Same reasoning goes for the titans, but the titans are a project that involve a lot of time and are pretty much a hobbyist's journey to its perfection.

 

 

The titans are wysiwyg so you know what to expect....the comic book not so much, especially to people such as myself who hasn't read anything outside of 30 40k stuff that Abnett writes to judge his graphic novel skills.

 

 

 

 

I dont want to drink the kool aid just because its 100+  bucks and made by Abnett. There has to be more justification to that. Especially since the demographic its advertising to is college students and middle class guys that usually have a family to take care of first.

 

 

 

@kais

 

A graphic novel by Graham McNeill might be too "graphic" and involve the Emperor's children. It would prolly be in the XXX section.

 

 

That should get a laugh out of Wade....

[Conn Eremon]

I can certainly understand the argument that there will be people who are going to be willing to pay exorbitant prices for such things, or that the publisher is pushing the envelope because of how special/one of a kind thing they think they have, but that doesn't really change that this is heavily overpriced. When you got something that is this high for that kind of product, you're only hurting yourself. There are going to be people who buy this (and those that do better spoiler the crap out of it here), but their profit margin would be much higher if they lowered that price to get into the bigger bulk of people willing to buy it. If five people buy something for a hundred bucks, that retailer gets five hundred dollars. If twenty people buy something for fifty bucks, that retailer gets a thousand dollars.

 

They are greatly missing the better parts of the bell curve.