Primarch Triumvirate

[Scribe]

Hmm. I would start to lean towards a Lion wake up call.

[tangoalphatwo]

Honestly I could care less which primarch returns. I just want a damn primarch! I can’t wait to see how happy the fans of whichever primarch it is will be. Super stoked. But I have to temper that because it’s been, what like two years, since the last one?

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

I guess it depends how much you value the secretive hidden war thing as a part of the background. I just imagined that there would be (ironically enough) a schism in the Dark Angels player base over the nature of that advancement of that chapter plot line. Things like Interrogator Chaplains and Ravenwing would have less thematic purpose it would seem, for example although I could predict people would have varying opinions on that as well, just as many do regarding whether non-terminators can Deathwing. It just seems like a messier task to accomplish than GMan was or many of the other Primarchs would be in terms of the plot implications for his chapter is all I meant, so I could see them backing away from choosing to bring him back.

[Scribe]

It is a ver ready made plot hook though, that would check off some 'this is a big deal' boxes.

 

Primarch

First Founding

Heresy tie in.

Chaos

Cypher

 

It's a suitable edition level event I would think.

[Karhedron]

It's a suitable edition level event I would think.

It is indeed. Which is why it is slightly disappointing that both Psychic Awakenign and 9th edition have come and gone without another Primarch. Fulgrim got teased in at least a couple of PA books which I thought would be a lead-up to the Emperor's Children getting a full release. But GW are never ones to be predictable.

 

When 8th was released, I remebering one of the more reliable rumour-mongers stating that he had also seen plans for both Angron and Russ. Of course that was nearly 3 years ago so may not mean much. On the other hand, we know GW has a fair set of models that are designed and ready to produce whenever they get a suitable opportunity.

[Scribe]

Yeah, 9th being the Necron reboot, I have to wonder if in a world without Covid, the Dragon and Silent King would have been that splash release.

[Guest]

Honestly I could care less which primarch returns. I just want a damn primarch! I can’t wait to see how happy the fans of whichever primarch it is will be. Super stoked. But I have to temper that because it’s been, what like two years, since the last one?

It's been exactly 3 years, in September, since Mortarion was released.

It's been 3.5 years since Robots was released.

I think Magnus was released November of 2016.

 

So roughly 4 years, 3.5 years, 3 years all since release. Ghaz was released in Jan, 9th was rumored to release in June/July but was delayed. So maybe 6 months of silent King we will get the next big model? Would line up with the 6 month seperation.

[Brother Sergeant Tiberius]

Wasn't there something said before about 5 years or so betwen loyalist ones though? Can't remember source fully but swear it was on one of those videos streams

[Guest]

Wasn't there something said before about 5 years or so betwen loyalist ones though? Can't remember source fully but swear it was on one of those videos streams

 

 

I remember 3 years between the loyalists as they wanted to build up the setting/Dark Imperium, which is now done it seems.

[smileyjim]

I'm not a fan of the Odin russ idea. I mean we may as well give Vulcan a shield and corax a bat mask.

 

In my mind russ would like the outcome of the imperium even less than girlyman. A better candidate for sheparding the human race would be Vulcan, or possibly even the lion.

 

I would make russ broken, a powerhouse still but a husk of what he was. His inner spark gone at the 10,000 year weight of guilt knowing he could have killed horus and stopped it all but failed to capitalise. He's spent the time venting his rage loss and guilt on any foe he can reach but the time and between takes its toll. He will still mess you up but his days quaffing ale and laughing around the fire are long gone. I never liked the comparison to thor, it cheapens what is a great character.

 

Now if the lion suddenly changed his tune and stepped up it could be more compelling and interesting. Especially because... well how could anyone trust him.

 

Regardless we just need another one to come back, problem is with the SM codex dropping in a month or two I can't see a loyalist coming back this codex. More likely to be angron when GW do the chaos codex.

[bigtrouble]

I guess it depends how much you value the secretive hidden war thing as a part of the background. I just imagined that there would be (ironically enough) a schism in the Dark Angels player base over the nature of that advancement of that chapter plot line. Things like Interrogator Chaplains and Ravenwing would have less thematic purpose it would seem, for example although I could predict people would have varying opinions on that as well, just as many do regarding whether non-terminators can Deathwing. It just seems like a messier task to accomplish than GMan was or many of the other Primarchs would be in terms of the plot implications for his chapter is all I meant, so I could see them backing away from choosing to bring him back.

Of all the loyal Primarchs, the Lion is the most complicated, for sure. It is fraught with conflict, but that’s why it feels like the best story line. The other ones wouldn’t automatically come with a reckoning of the entire culture of their chapters. Russ and Khan are probably the most “exciting” possibilities, IMO. I find Corax, Vulcan, and Dorn boring, but that’s one DA player’s opinion.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think they wouldn't devalue the RW or DW, but repurpose them perhaps. From what we've seen of the HH black book Crusade, Interrogator-Chaplains go back to the Great Crusade as part of the Firewing.

I think there are actually prerequisites for Lion El'Jonson to return, but they're outside of the game. As bigtrouble says, this would probably have a massive shakeup of the DA chapter. The prerequisites for this would probably be defining how the DA Legion was organized as well as what Luther's intentions are. These are all things that are starting to show up, with the Lion primarch novel, the next HH campaign book and now the Luther novel coming out as well. There's a lot stirring around in the background there.

[Doctor Perils]

I'm not a fan of the Odin russ idea. I mean we may as well give Vulcan a shield and corax a bat mask.

 

In my mind russ would like the outcome of the imperium even less than girlyman. A better candidate for sheparding the human race would be Vulcan, or possibly even the lion.

 

I would make russ broken, a powerhouse still but a husk of what he was. His inner spark gone at the 10,000 year weight of guilt knowing he could have killed horus and stopped it all but failed to capitalise. He's spent the time venting his rage loss and guilt on any foe he can reach but the time and between takes its toll. He will still mess you up but his days quaffing ale and laughing around the fire are long gone. I never liked the comparison to thor, it cheapens what is a great character.

 

I think that's pretty much what people mean by the Odin/Thor comparison, Odin being older, wiser, but also more world weary and full of regret than Thor.

 

And, I mean, Thor and Odin are also great characters, a comparison to a great character isn't a reduction

[Guest Triszin]

 

Honestly I could care less which primarch returns. I just want a damn primarch! I can’t wait to see how happy the fans of whichever primarch it is will be. Super stoked. But I have to temper that because it’s been, what like two years, since the last one?

It's been exactly 3 years, in September, since Mortarion was released.

It's been 3.5 years since Robots was released.

I think Magnus was released November of 2016.

 

So roughly 4 years, 3.5 years, 3 years all since release. Ghaz was released in Jan, 9th was rumored to release in June/July but was delayed. So maybe 6 months of silent King we will get the next big model? Would line up with the 6 month seperation.

 

yep, I think it'll be angron next summer// whenever teh armegeddon campaign is.

 

then the Nids will also get a "primarch" tier creature from the tiamet plot line

 

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of the Odin russ idea. I mean we may as well give Vulcan a shield and corax a bat mask.

 

In my mind russ would like the outcome of the imperium even less than girlyman. A better candidate for sheparding the human race would be Vulcan, or possibly even the lion.

 

I would make russ broken, a powerhouse still but a husk of what he was. His inner spark gone at the 10,000 year weight of guilt knowing he could have killed horus and stopped it all but failed to capitalise. He's spent the time venting his rage loss and guilt on any foe he can reach but the time and between takes its toll. He will still mess you up but his days quaffing ale and laughing around the fire are long gone. I never liked the comparison to thor, it cheapens what is a great character.

I think that's pretty much what people mean by the Odin/Thor comparison, Odin being older, wiser, but also more world weary and full of regret than Thor.

 

And, I mean, Thor and Odin are also great characters, a comparison to a great character isn't a reduction

 

 

 

yep, when people say "odin" or "thor" Russ, it means the story of thor/odin and how thor evolved into "runelord thor", its the journey, while not being hte character himself.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Triszin

[gorg_graggel]

yep, I think it'll be angron next summer// whenever teh armegeddon campaign is.

 

then the Nids will also get a "primarch" tier creature from the tiamet plot line

 

During the 9th edition announcement stream they vaguely hinted that 'something big' might happen around Christmas iirc. I don't remember the exact wording, but I think it was in response to the community's laments about no Primarch having been part of all the anouncements so far.

 

Afaik the most hints in books and such have been dropped towards Fulgrim and Angron more or less recently, so if anything Primarch would happen around that time, it probably would be one of those.

 

Knowing GW that comment could mean anything though, I suppose...

Edited August 30, 2020 by gorg_graggel

[b1soul]

@ bigtrouble

 

"Of all the loyal Primarchs, the Lion is the most complicated, for sure. It is fraught with conflict, but that’s why it feels like the best story line. The other ones wouldn’t automatically come with a reckoning of the entire culture of their chapters. Russ and Khan are probably the most “exciting” possibilities, IMO. I find Corax, Vulcan, and Dorn boring, but that’s one DA player’s opinion."

 

Good point about the Lion, but I don't think he'd overhaul DA culture per se...more like audit their loyalty to the Emperor and how they've handled The Fallen over ten millennia.

 

Khan and Russ are more exciting to me as well, because their cultures and attitudes do fall farther from the Terran tree and they both have a strong independent streak, as opposed to the Lion and Guilliman, both of whom would seek to command the Imperium (potential schism in the making)

 

So my wishlist is still Guilliman and Lion as co-Regents and Russ and Khan as co-Warmasters

 

I do find Khan more interesting than Corax, which I think is mainly due to the former being developed by Wraigt and the latter by Thorpe.

 

After that, I'd prefer Vulkan to Dorn.

 

I just don't know how Dorn would spice up the setting. He's another straight-laced primarch, perhaps moreso than Guilliman and definitely more one-dimensional than the Lion IMO. He's solid as stone.

 

I recall Malcador saying the Khan was deliberately designed to be an element of uncertainty or randomness among the primarchs and Dorn is the opposite exercise. If that's the case, I think a disillusioned Dorn with a fatalist view of the universe would be compelling.

 

If the old Dorn were analogous to a Puritan Inquisitor, a returned Dorn could be a Radical. Without the light of the living Emperor to guide them, mankind can only fight the darkness by employing whatever works, no matter how unsavoury.

 

I'm going crazy here...but a Dorn-Omegon team up would be absolutely nuts. Or a subtler, evolved Dorn who has taken the millennia to expand his methods and is neither a super-stolid defender nor an embittered crusader.

 

EDIT: Maybe a Dorn who was also shown The Acuity?

[Brother Sergeant Tiberius]

@ bigtrouble

 

"Of all the loyal Primarchs, the Lion is the most complicated, for sure. It is fraught with conflict, but that’s why it feels like the best story line. The other ones wouldn’t automatically come with a reckoning of the entire culture of their chapters. Russ and Khan are probably the most “exciting” possibilities, IMO. I find Corax, Vulcan, and Dorn boring, but that’s one DA player’s opinion."

 

Good point about the Lion, but I don't think he'd overhaul DA culture per se...more like audit their loyalty to the Emperor and how they've handled The Fallen over ten millennia.

 

Khan and Russ are more exciting to me as well, because their cultures and attitudes do fall farther from the Terran tree and they both have a strong independent streak, as opposed to the Lion and Guilliman, both of whom would seek to command the Imperium (potential schism in the making)

 

So my wishlist is still Guilliman and Lion as co-Regents and Russ and Khan as co-Warmasters

 

I do find Khan more interesting than Corax, which I think is mainly due to the former being developed by Wraigt and the latter by Thorpe.

 

After that, I'd prefer Vulkan to Dorn.

 

I just don't know how Dorn would spice up the setting. He's another straight-laced primarch, perhaps moreso than Guilliman and definitely more one-dimensional than the Lion IMO. He's solid as stone.

 

I recall Malcador saying the Khan was deliberately designed to be an element of uncertainty or randomness among the primarchs and Dorn is the opposite exercise. If that's the case, I think a disillusioned Dorn with a fatalist view of the universe would be compelling.

 

If the old Dorn were analogous to a Puritan Inquisitor, a returned Dorn could be a Radical. Without the light of the living Emperor to guide them, mankind can only fight the darkness by employing whatever works, no matter how unsavoury.

 

I'm going crazy here...but a Dorn-Omegon team up would be absolutely nuts. Or a subtler, evolved Dorn who has taken the millennia to expand his methods and is neither a super-stolid defender nor an embittered crusader.

 

EDIT: Maybe a Dorn who was also shown The Acuity?

As much as I love the Lion, making him regent is a waste of his skills and guillimans. Only takes one Primarch to lead empire and Bobby is the best to organise and pragmatise then Imperium.

Lion as Warmaster being reactive to threats that appear using his strategic adaptability but with Khan and Russ leading two massive crusades one on either side of the schism allowing them to wage war in their open specialist ways.

[Guest]

Roboute is not a great leader, a decent leader yes, but he's a great logistician. In Dark Imperium you can see that he lacks the finese of diplomacy, he is unwilling to compromise and would rather see defeat than minor victories.You also read how the strain of leading the Imperium is starting to erode him. Robouts skills are best put in the back room out of sight and allowed to work freely on the infrastructure, logistics, and resource management of the Imperium.

 

One of the reasons why the Imperium will never truly recover is the 3 people (in my opinion) who can unite and lead the Imperium are dead or silent, and they are the Emperor, Horus, and Sanguinius. Every other Primarch has a serious fault that prevents him from being a truly great leader. All of them have great atributes to be a great leader, but not enough. This is why the idea of a "round table" is the best for the Imperium with someone like Lion taking the lead (unless someones else has a major character change like Valdor tutoring Russ to be a proper Jarl). However, again, the best option in my opinion the Lion as he has gained most of his brothers trust, even Russ who has the most distrust of the primarchs.

 

yeah yeah DA fans, you heard it a wolf said the lion is the better leader/option.

[b1soul]

Think that kinda muddles the roles of Lion, Khan, and Russ a bit.

 

However, I admit the Lion never struck me as an exceptional non-military administrator. So the advent of the Lion could allow Guilliman to take a more civilian role.

 

Guilliman as Lord Regent who endeavours to reform Imperial institutions, reduce ignorance and inefficiency, decrease technological dependence on the Martian orthodoxy, other macro-policy changes

 

The Lion as Lord Protector who defends the Imperium with military force and coordinates his defense with the massive counterattacks led by the Khan and Russ

 

Khan as Warmaster of the Northern Crusade and Russ as Warmaster of the Southern Crusade or somesuch. I thought about Lord Executioner but thought better of it.

[Brother Sergeant Tiberius]

Think that kinda muddles the roles of Lion, Khan, and Russ a bit.

 

However, I admit the Lion never struck me as an exceptional non-military administrator. So the advent of the Lion could allow Guilliman to take a more civilian role.

 

Guilliman as Lord Regent who endeavours to reform Imperial institutions, reduce ignorance and inefficiency, decrease technological dependence on the Martian orthodoxy, other macro-policy changes

 

The Lion as Lord Protector who defends the Imperium with military force and coordinates his defense with the massive counterattacks led by the Khan and Russ

 

Khan as Warmaster of the Northern Crusade and Russ as Warmaster of the Southern Crusade or somesuch. I thought about Lord Executioner but thought better of it.

That is what I was thinking just struggled to articulate it properly.

If the charisma side/personality is a problem for a figurehead, who lines up best?

[b1soul]

None of those four would be a great figurehead.

 

I do think Guilliman makes a better figurehead than the Lion though. The Lion's only advantage is being known as The First.

 

The Lion is a natural introvert who is secretive and distrustful. Other people might trust him...but he doesn't trust other people, especially after Perturabo and Luther did their numbers on him.

 

I think the Lion is acknowledged as one of the best military grand strategists or theatre commanders among the primarchs (all geniuses but there are levels to the game)...but he is bad at cultivating interpersonal alliances or charming mortal leaders.

 

He's one of those lower-EQ primarchs. Definitely not a charmer like Lupercal or Sanguinius. And more brooding than Guilliman.

[chapter master 454]

I would call non-sense on gulliman not being a good empire builder...I mean of all the Primarchs he was the one who made Ultramar. He kind of has a background in building empires. I would agree however he needs another primarch to help out, ether to aid in getting the Imperium is stop being a bunch of babies about minor superstitions (Looking at you Custodes who wasted a chapter worth or so of primaris for no reason. We don't have time for that sort of nonsense!) or a Primarch who is more about that fighting, stabbing and general war-making.

 

Lion would work for war, Khan I would feel would be too much of a loose cannon depending on how his time shaped him wherever he was. Corax is likely still brooding...Russ has a chance of returning looking like a wulfen so his return would depend on what happened to him; though advisor role to Gulliman as Odin would be interesting, trying to warn him of a great tragedy that could be avoided but is ignored and even cast aside for his "weakness" and "acting above his abilities", harking to the his story with Magnus and now realising how it feels trying to do the right thing...at all costs...but yet no-one cares and you are hated for it. Though Space Wolf players never want to admit Russ was wrong.

 

Vulkan I feel would be fun but ultimately would get too caught up trying to save every soul he can where he goes. This really only leaves Lion to return and get the Dark Angels to progress their 5 minutes to midnight story line not to mention their Primarch is in a similar, but not so fatal, state.

 

Though I don't want Khan back purely because he'll be a tank commander model in a stalker or hunter and not on a bike because for some reason GW don't want to put the bike characters on BIKES...going to make Russ return on a jetbike with Lion in a sidecar while Vulkan is void-skiing behind them before they give Khan or Korsarro a bike at this rate!

[Guest]

building a empire and ruling an empire are to seperate things. Alexander the Great built an empire, he failed in ruling an empire. Ultramar is also small scale compared to the Imperium, I suspect any Primarch could easilly handle a meager 500 worlds, over 1,000,000 worlds is a different story.

 

Russ has no chance of returning a wulfen, we have had GW employees and authors state "if he did come back it wouldn't be a wulfen", at this point people need to get that out of their mind.   Again, as I said, every primarch has severe flaws in their personallity during the HH/scouring to lead the Imperium and I think  we all know what those flaws are. We also don't know how they would act except for Guilliman and Lion as they have been confirmed in statis/sleep and thus have no chance to grow.

[smileyjim]

 

 

 

Honestly I could care less which primarch returns. I just want a damn primarch! I can’t wait to see how happy the fans of whichever primarch it is will be. Super stoked. But I have to temper that because it’s been, what like two years, since the last one?

It's been exactly 3 years, in September, since Mortarion was released.

It's been 3.5 years since Robots was released.

I think Magnus was released November of 2016.

 

So roughly 4 years, 3.5 years, 3 years all since release. Ghaz was released in Jan, 9th was rumored to release in June/July but was delayed. So maybe 6 months of silent King we will get the next big model? Would line up with the 6 month seperation.

yep, I think it'll be angron next summer// whenever teh armegeddon campaign is.

 

then the Nids will also get a "primarch" tier creature from the tiamet plot line

 

 

 

I'm not a fan of the Odin russ idea. I mean we may as well give Vulcan a shield and corax a bat mask.

 

In my mind russ would like the outcome of the imperium even less than girlyman. A better candidate for sheparding the human race would be Vulcan, or possibly even the lion.

 

I would make russ broken, a powerhouse still but a husk of what he was. His inner spark gone at the 10,000 year weight of guilt knowing he could have killed horus and stopped it all but failed to capitalise. He's spent the time venting his rage loss and guilt on any foe he can reach but the time and between takes its toll. He will still mess you up but his days quaffing ale and laughing around the fire are long gone. I never liked the comparison to thor, it cheapens what is a great character.

I think that's pretty much what people mean by the Odin/Thor comparison, Odin being older, wiser, but also more world weary and full of regret than Thor.

 

And, I mean, Thor and Odin are also great characters, a comparison to a great character isn't a reduction

 

yep, when people say "odin" or "thor" Russ, it means the story of thor/odin and how thor evolved into "runelord thor", its the journey, while not being hte character himself.

Oh I get it but the way I see russ is not like odin, older wiser his emotions kept in check. I see russ turning into more of a depressed angron but with bit of control.

 

However russ comes back though it would be epic

[Scribe]

Russ wouldn't share any motivations with Angron even Pre Daemon Prince version.

 

Russ was never the reaver that Angron was.

 

Given what Abnett pushed them into, he would return as a glorified guard dog, but almost certainly with that Odin flavour to ride on the tropes present.