Codex: Space Wolves Errata and Preview

[Castle Wolfenstein]

So, Im really confused. It sounds like Bulwyf is saying that there are specific bits that should be used for frost weapons and that they are different than the power sword/axe bits. But others are saying that frost weapons are just the power weapon bits painted blue and or/icy looking. This is also what I thought and have been doing. Soooo, which is it?

 

I'm just wondering because I try to be as WYSIWYG as possible (I never try to enforce WYSIWYG on an opponent, its all about my path to self-actualization) and if there are specific frost weapon bits I would like to use them.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Technically the ones in the original upgrade sprue are. But by the wording of the relic they have to be either power weapons or master crafted power weapons before replacement so I wouldn't worry about it.

[Bryan Blaire]

So you guys are saying that if I have the wolf-head axe with the power emitter from the non-Primaris upgrade sprue and I have it painted silver, with lightning painted on it, with the edge lightning effect painted, it's still a frost weapon?

 

What if I have filed all the supposed "frost" off of it and it's just painted as a normal axe? Is it required to be a power axe because of the power emitter, or if I don't have any power effects painted on it, can I just use it as a decorative axe in place of a combat knife on a Reiver? Or is it still a frost axe?

 

What about an Assault Marine axe that I have filed the little wire with round gem things off of and just painted plain silver? Is that still a power axe no matter what?

 

What about a converted Chaos Warrior axe that I have clearly painted an "icy" blue blade? Is that not allowed to be a frost axe? Is it even allowed to be on the model at all, because it came from a fantasy model? Can it be anything for 40K?

 

And seriously, what makes the chainsword on the same upgrade sprue a frost weapon? Because it sure looks like a chainsword to me.

 

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Honestly, Bulwyf, in your situation, I would personally rather not play. It doesn't sound like it would be entirely enjoyable in that environment anyway.

[HvitrValdyr]

Is Frostfang a frost sword or just has frost in the title and that caused a misconception? Or was it model design?

8th ed codex of strange scenario of Frost Swords being depicted as larger chainswords but anyone running Frost Swords probably just painted a power sword blue. Frost Axes and Claws were blued up rather than chained up too

Frostfang is the original frost blade, although it was not originally described as such. In 2nd edition it was simply a special chainsword made from an unknown metal by Fergus Forgrimm. In 3rd edition generic frost blades became a thing, either axe or sword, and all were described as using ice kraken fangs for their chainsaw blades. Frostfang at that time was just a master crafted frost blade. Later editions developed the fluff to include the current description of frost blades to either be kraken fanged chainblades or specially treated energized diamond that looks like ice.

[Bulwyf]

So, Im really confused. It sounds like Bulwyf is saying that there are specific bits that should be used for frost weapons and that they are different than the power sword/axe bits. But others are saying that frost weapons are just the power weapon bits painted blue and or/icy looking. This is also what I thought and have been doing. Soooo, which is it?

 

I'm just wondering because I try to be as WYSIWYG as possible (I never try to enforce WYSIWYG on an opponent, its all about my path to self-actualization) and if there are specific frost weapon bits I would like to use them.

 

There are specific weapon models that are frost weapons and people listed most of them already in the thread. The tourney TOs I referenced earlier both agreed that since you have a specific frost weapon bit to use for a model in order to be WYSIWYG which is rigidly adhered to then you have to use those specific weapons. Not just paint a power axe or sword and paint it blue or frosty etc.

 

As I said, I simply dropped out of that tourney when told to take arms off and will not play tournies going forwards. 

[Valerian]

 

 

 

“I know at least two tourney organizers that would post a picture of a frost weapon and a power weapon and tell you to switch to a power weapon on the model since it has its own model.”

Who? What tournaments?

 

 

Our local store had one where the guy went bonkers on me for having frost weapons on TWC that I was counting as TH with the opponents okaying it and it was correctly pointed on the list but he wouldn't let it go. Told me to break arms off or not use them and I was like well I guess I'm out of the tourney. The other one is from a large city that had the same mentality when I brought this exact situation up to him thinking he would agree with me but instead went the other way.

You were trying to pass off Frost/Power Weapons (axes and swords, I assume) as Thunder Hammers. I can see why they’d have a problem with that, if they were trying to enforce WYSIWYG.

However, that experience in no way validates your claim that either of these TOs would not count Frost Swords as Power Swords, or Frost Axes as Power Axes, especially as there is no meaningful differences in the bits. Just as there is no meaningful difference in the Master Crafted versions of those weapons.

 

I already talked to the guy at the local store. He would not allow frost axes on models with how they operate now unless they were relic weapons. I haven't asked the other guy because I didn't know there would be an inquisition over this.  I'll ask him and wait for a response. 

 

I guess that does in fact "validate" my claim. :rolleyes:

 

It also does not answer the problems I raised with other players, other WYSIWYG and the hobby side where your guys are running around with frost weapons and you simply don't have them at all now in 9th except as relic weapons. 

 

Not one person has really addressed this except to say don't play with people that would play that way. Ok...? What if that's the only people you can play with? What if you don't want your models to have now banned weapons? 

 

It is ok to admit there's no nice and tidy solution to those problems.

Looks to me like this is only a problem for you. You were unlucky enough to find the only two people on the planet that care to enforce a modeling (non-game) distinction that doesn’t even really exist. Bad news for you, but it won’t impact anyone else.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

It’s a tough situation and those two TO’s have a bad take on it. I’m starting a GoFundMe to #FreeBulwyf

[Bryan Blaire]

I mean that really does suck for Bulwyf, that seems almost harder line than GW is on things, even in their own Warhammer World stuff, which is where they actually impose Chapter painting restrictions, but I still haven't heard of them being that hardline on bits used/conversions (as long as it isn't readily identifiable as a 3rd party model).

 

I honestly had never considered that those pieces on the pre-Primaris upgrade sprue would actually be viewed as having to be frost weapons by anyone in a WYSIWYG sense. It does make me wonder how far people would push stuff like that, and also how kindly they would take someone vetoing some of their stuff...

[Bulwyf]

It’s a tough situation and those two TO’s have a bad take on it. I’m starting a GoFundMe to #FreeBulwyf

 

I appreciate the support. I hope I'm the only one with that kind of experience but I worry I'm not the only one. I never care for WYSIWYG and never will. As long as the gear is properly pointed out and no one tries to hide which model has the special weapon when removing models that's all that should matter.

[SvenIronhand]

Damn, Bulwyf. I know everyone's been yelling at you, but that sounds rough. 

I myself have one of my Intercessor Sergeants wielding the Frost Blade from the Upgrade Set, posed like he's Guts, with the blade on his shoulder.

[StrangerOrders]

Huh... I wanted to ask folks since all this talk has me nervous now.

 

I took the art as a guideline and have always used chainswords as frost swords, their teeth are painted in my various attempts at getting a diamond-ice sort of color as opposed to the steel of the norm.

 

With the current rules, do folks think anyone would call me out on using them as standard power swords or am I going to have to go on an arm-ripping campaign?

 

I admit I will be a bit sad in the latter case, I always thought the sort of 'power chainsword' look was pleasingly iconic to the wolves. But not as much as I would be if I start getting looks when I start using them again.

[HvitrValdyr]

I used the pre-Primaris upgrade axe head as a power axe on my Vorek conversion, but I did file down the blade edge to be smooth.

 

[Bryan Blaire]

Damn, that conversion needs some official rules support! :tu:

[VIth]

This is a total non-issue, and if I read his anecdote correctly he was proxying Frost Weapons as Thunder Hammers and was told he couldn’t by a TO. This occurrence was introduced into this topic to make the case that we’re all going to have to chop off our power weapons painted as Frost Weapons because we can only have a limited number of Frost Weapons now since they’re relics and any model you’ve painted to be a Frost Weapon can’t be used as a Power Weapon because of WYSIWYG. So the sky is falling because Frost Weapons are relics. Am I missing anything?

 

Again, it’s not going to be an issue.

Edited October 29, 2020 by VIth

[FabulousRex]

Let's face it, losing our iconic frost Weapons across all of our units does suck. Bulwyf, I feel for you brother! I'm going to have to chop up some models, but at least mine aren't painted yet.

 

On the other hand, keeping Frost Weapons as a better relic option is pretty nifty, especially because we can take a Master Crafted relic alongside it.

 

I've also chopped up my models before, and this is to be expected. It sucks, but its like cursing the tides to complain about an edition change, you just gotta roll with it.

[VIth]

Let's face it, losing our iconic frost Weapons across all of our units does suck. Bulwyf, I feel for you brother! I'm going to have to chop up some models, but at least mine aren't painted yet.

On the other hand, keeping Frost Weapons as a better relic option is pretty nifty, especially because we can take a Master Crafted relic alongside it.

I've also chopped up my models before, and this is to be expected. It sucks, but its like cursing the tides to complain about an edition change, you just gotta roll with it.

Why do you need to chop them up? I literally don’t understand why you feel the need to do this: you’re changing them from what to what and why? Edited October 29, 2020 by VIth

[Bulwyf]

This is a total non-issue, and if I read his anecdote correctly he was proxying Frost Weapons as Thunder Hammers and was told he couldn’t by a TO. This occurrence was introduced into this topic to make the case that we’re all going to have to chop off our power weapons painted as Frost Weapons because we can only have a limited number of Frost Weapons now since they’re relics and any model you’ve painted to be a Frost Weapon can’t be used as a Power Weapon because of WYSIWYG. So the sky is falling because Frost Weapons are relics. Am I missing anything?

 

Again, it’s not going to be an issue.

 

I feel like I have said this several times but I will repeat it again.

 

Frost weapons no longer exist in our current rules except as a relic weapon. That means if you have units with frost weapons in them then you have an issue. Saying to just count them as power weapons that happen to be blue or ice looking etc is fine if the people you play with don't care, if the tournament organizer allows and most crucially perhaps if you don't care from a hobby side how your army looks with a now invalid weapon option.

 

There are players who do care about the hobby side. If your units have weapons that don't exist anymore essentially within current rules then you have to convert them. There's been plenty of 3rd party bits sites like pop goes the monkey that has probably sold thousands of frost looking weapons let alone the official weapon option from GW. If you did all that work and now you have models with invalid weapons...that's an issue. 

 

To your point in reference to my incident at a tourney, I asked that TO again about this once GW removed frost weapons. He had the same ruling on it that he did before. Frost weapon models are not power weapon models and should be removed unless that one or two model has the now relic weapon on it.

 

Again, I don't care about WYSIWYG but that doesn't mean I speak for everyone especially those that do care about it. 

Damn, Bulwyf. I know everyone's been yelling at you, but that sounds rough. 

 

I myself have one of my Intercessor Sergeants wielding the Frost Blade from the Upgrade Set, posed like he's Guts, with the blade on his shoulder.

 

 

 

Thank you. There seems to be a few posters that really have it in for me for some reason but I wear it with pride. Russ wasn't the most popular primarch when he spoke the truth either. That model you described sounds pretty cool to me.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Bulwyf

[Surreal Cruelty]

Not going to be critical of you here, I just have to poke at the kind reductio ad absurdum rules logic that some people get;

 

Do they also require SW players to remove the power weapons that come with the standard (hunters/bloodclaws/long fangs) kit, because they have runes on them, and thus are "runic weapons," or do they prohibit their use as "runic weapons" and force you to stick with official runepriest models and kit-bashed runepriests with staves only?

 

I have also been to tournaments where they require your marines to have grenades and melta-bomb modelled, so I would only be so surprised at someone that rectally retentive. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Surreal Cruelty

[NatBrannigan]

Agreed. No insult to Bulwyf because he wasn’t running the tournament, but there’s no way this is an issue. The old “frost axe” bit (which really has never been called that) and a power axe have always been interchangeable.

 

I’d go back and wait for someone to give a model with a power sword the burning blade relic, then kick off because they’re not using the official burning blade bit. Or say they’re using the wrong kind of storm shield for the shield eternal.

 

Utterly pathetic enforcement of WYSIWYG, and not something anyone else should worry about

[Dark Shepherd]

 

Is Frostfang a frost sword or just has frost in the title and that caused a misconception? Or was it model design?

8th ed codex of strange scenario of Frost Swords being depicted as larger chainswords but anyone running Frost Swords probably just painted a power sword blue. Frost Axes and Claws were blued up rather than chained up too

Frostfang is the original frost blade, although it was not originally described as such. In 2nd edition it was simply a special chainsword made from an unknown metal by Fergus Forgrimm. In 3rd edition generic frost blades became a thing, either axe or sword, and all were described as using ice kraken fangs for their chainsaw blades. Frostfang at that time was just a master crafted frost blade. Later editions developed the fluff to include the current description of frost blades to either be kraken fanged chainblades or specially treated energized diamond that looks like ice.

Thanks!

Plus hearing of a Wolf called Fergus is awesome for patriotic reasons

[PeteySödes]

That’s about all we need about WYSIWYG brothers.

 

That Berserk art would be a great basis for a Judicar.

[Guest Triszin]

Crusadw rules preview up.

 

Mark of the wulfen in crusade. Woot

[Dark Shepherd]

Crusadw rules preview up.

 

Mark of the wulfen in crusade. Woot

Hope we get it as a matched play strat

 

Psychic power would be too much to hope for

[BadgersinHills]

One of the new Crusade relics is the Spear of Russ. So coool. I'm so excited for this. I'm tempted to model a Wolf Lord with the Spear now. 

 

@Bulwyf: I'm sorry to hear that you've met those difficult people. I hope you find better opponents to play with! :) 

[BadgersinHills]

 

One of the new Crusade relics is the Spear of Russ. So coool. I'm so excited for this. I'm tempted to model a Wolf Lord with the Spear now. 

 

@Bulwyf: I'm sorry to hear that you've met those difficult people. I hope you find better opponents to play with!

 

Thank you. My regular opponents are great guys and gals. They know I don't care about WYSIWYG and that I point everything out in a list and don't try to play hide the special weapon in a squad so it doesn't really matter. Some of them are sticklers about WYSIWYG for their own armies but they know I don't hold them to that. 

 

My situation with the TO was unfortunate and one of the main reasons why I will never play in a tournament again.

 

 

Glad to hear that! May your Wolves win much glory and cut many threads of the Emperor's enemies! Fenrys Hjolda!