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I guess I want primaris jump death company with proper sculpts on par with the firstborn death company (in terms of weapon options, details, bling that can be shared out), Failing that I'd be a complete sucker for a veteran jump assault unit following the bladeguard aesthetic (especially those helms).

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A complete rework to how the chapter tactic works.

 

Better stratagems and secondaries, if that's the route to be taken. Make the army feel like BA again in the sense that we should be on par with white scars in melee, not worse.

 

Primaris Sanguinary Guard is really all I would want, I don't need 27 different jump pack marines.

 

That's about it.

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A complete rework to how the chapter tactic works.

 

Better stratagems and secondaries, if that's the route to be taken. Make the army feel like BA again in the sense that we should be on par with white scars in melee, not worse.

 

Primaris Sanguinary Guard is really all I would want, I don't need 27 different jump pack marines.

 

That's about it.

i gotta say, it's hard to make BA feel like BA again, without a bunch of jump pack units....sure bikes and the like can theoretically get us into melee in game, but it's just not fluffy. we love to fly through the air, we need jump packs, and we need them to have OBSEC.

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A complete rework to how the chapter tactic works.

 

Better stratagems and secondaries, if that's the route to be taken. Make the army feel like BA again in the sense that we should be on par with white scars in melee, not worse.

 

Primaris Sanguinary Guard is really all I would want, I don't need 27 different jump pack marines.

 

That's about it.

i gotta say, it's hard to make BA feel like BA again, without a bunch of jump pack units....sure bikes and the like can theoretically get us into melee in game, but it's just not fluffy. we love to fly through the air, we need jump packs, and we need them to have OBSEC.

Obsec assault marines would be great, even if they were still FA.

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Posted (edited)

 

 

A complete rework to how the chapter tactic works.

 

Better stratagems and secondaries, if that's the route to be taken. Make the army feel like BA again in the sense that we should be on par with white scars in melee, not worse.

 

Primaris Sanguinary Guard is really all I would want, I don't need 27 different jump pack marines.

 

That's about it.

i gotta say, it's hard to make BA feel like BA again, without a bunch of jump pack units....sure bikes and the like can theoretically get us into melee in game, but it's just not fluffy. we love to fly through the air, we need jump packs, and we need them to have OBSEC.
I mean I get it. 5th edition feels...just because we could take ASM as troops 10 years ago doesn't mean we need them now.

 

BA and successors aren't just all jumpy dudes. We just have more dudes that are open to filling those roles.

 

No one takes ASM. It's literally First born DC with JPs and 30 Sang Guard with 1 squad of JP VVs. And it will continue to be that way. Intercessors and incursors are better troops anyways.

 

Every single company pre indomitus had 60 tactical marines and 20 assault marines. You can go back and see that we aren't just jumpy dudes. We've never been just jumpy dudes, except 10 years ago when we had Deep striking land raiders and a Ward Dex.

 

Edit: I didn't mean to come at this so heated but that's one thing that irks me. BA shoe horned into only being jumpy dudes.

Edited by Dont-Be-Haten
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I want to see Dante, and I want him able to lead any Blood Angel successor, as befits his new position.

 

I'd like to see something besides datasheets that ties the BA successors to their parent chapter. I think the Dark Angels hit this stride strongly, whereas the Blood Angels (less adherent to this idea) fell short, although the Space Wolves I think fell short the most with the drop of their tactic for Born Heroes/Whirlwind of Rage

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A complete rework to how the chapter tactic works.

 

Better stratagems and secondaries, if that's the route to be taken. Make the army feel like BA again in the sense that we should be on par with white scars in melee, not worse.

 

Primaris Sanguinary Guard is really all I would want, I don't need 27 different jump pack marines.

 

That's about it.

i gotta say, it's hard to make BA feel like BA again, without a bunch of jump pack units....sure bikes and the like can theoretically get us into melee in game, but it's just not fluffy. we love to fly through the air, we need jump packs, and we need them to have OBSEC.
I mean I get it. 5th edition feels...just because we could take ASM as troops 10 years ago doesn't mean we need them now.

 

BA and successors aren't just all jumpy dudes. We just have more dudes that are open to filling those roles.

 

No one takes ASM. It's literally First born DC with JPs and 30 Sang Guard with 1 squad of JP VVs. And it will continue to be that way. Intercessors and incursors are better troops anyways.

 

Every single company pre indomitus had 60 tactical marines and 20 assault marines. You can go back and see that we aren't just jumpy dudes. We've never been just jumpy dudes, except 10 years ago when we had Deep striking land raiders and a Ward Dex.

 

Edit: I didn't mean to come at this so heated but that's one thing that irks me. BA shoe horned into only being jumpy dudes.

I never said we were just jumpy dudes, but it’s quite clear from the fluff that BA excel at using jump packs and actually enjoy using them, so an army themed around jump infantry is fluffy.
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Posted (edited)

Also I’d like to see SG limited to 1 per detachment (30 SG in a single army is so cheesy and not fluffy), and have the HG make a comeback some how to fill that gap a bit.

 

This doesn’t prevent 30SG but makes it less likely to happen

Edited by Inquisitor_Lensoven
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I'd rather Sanguinary Guard were very good, especially if updated, but were restricted in the number you can take.

 

I'm rather fond of the 30k way where it's like '0-1' or '0-3' <Unit>. So they could say '0-1' Sanguinary Guard to make them good, but as you can only take 1 squad, it forces you to then take something else to go with them.

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As for HG, I’m thinking basically VGVs, but also with some more shooty options.

So a primaris HG, for every 5 models this unit can take up to 2 assault plasma incinerators, (whatever that fancy new flamer the BTs got), or melta rifles, or add astartes grenade launchers to bolt rifles.

Or all models can choose to replace their bolt rifles with heavy bolt pistol, power sword, thunder hammer, plasma pistol, hand flamer.

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Not a big fan of wishlisting ....buuuut....i'll bite

 

 

1: Dante needs a huge buff- and maybe a primaris upgrade. Yes, there's always a difference between fluff and game, but this guy is completely underwhelming for both his experience and ability.  Make him a supreme commander, make him a LOW- whatever...just put him where he deserves to be. 

 

2: Mephiston - literally the same as above.  Complete nothing rule-wise.  Id *consider* taking Mephy at 120 Points as is. But, only consider, as I'd likely take something more useful.  That's damning. 

 

3: Fix the DC mechanic.  2nd ed had it amazingly, 3rd ed had it amazingly. Even, 4th with rend was great. They need a little something else

 

4: Dreads - Libby dread, Furioso Dread, DC dread - an exceptional kit, that is so grossly underwhelming. Needs a fix. They're not worth taking. (Maybe if pods were 35 points again). 

 

5. Baal Pred - Make Baals Good Again. 

 

 

BA overall.  
The chapter tactics are not bad.  But, they need more.  As we've discussed plenty, you get higher base damage output from a combination of other existing ChapTacs - this really shouldnt be the case.  

BA for me are their 3rd ed dex. 

 

1. A higher reliance on jump troops, 

2. Furious charge (which was +1S and +1init) - I would like a return of representation of our speed, vs savagery.

3. An ability to make use of Luucifer Pattern engines - the BA of that time were reknown for disembarking on the move.  That mechanic was fluffy and great. Now, it seems like its WS's schtick. 

 

If BA cant KEEP models in combat, or GET TO models in combat, then by the emperor they best be given rules that completely obliterate the enemy in combat when they are there.  Otherwise, what's the point.  

 

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Across the board our chapter specific units need love. Sang Guard are good now but the rest of our special units are underwhelming.

 

Death Co are supposed to keep fighting and killing even as they are torn apart. A special rule that bumps their FnP to a 5+ on the charge or a strat that lets them fight on death would be good tweaks.

 

Furiosos at minimum should have venerable dred rules with the 2+ WS/BS and the 6++ shrug. I think giving them 2+ armor or 6s to hit count as two hits would be options. Frag Cannons should be autohit flamers that can be shot in combat rather than blast weapons.

 

Baal Preds should be able to advance and shoot their weapons as if stationary.

 

Mephiston should ignore negatives to cast and maybe his powers are harder to deny. Maybe he doesn't get a bonus to the actual cast, but if he succeeds you need a 10+ to dispel his powers regardless of his actual roll. Something to suggest he is not a psyker of deep or broad knowledge but he has an iron will and immense psychic strength.

 

Dante needs to feel like the regent of half the flipping imperium. He needs a Primaris body and a mechanic like Celestine where he is always flanked by two Sanguinary body guards who protect him.

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Posted (edited)

The above points are great, but since we're wishlisting I'd like to add making the sanguinor a LoW on par with at least Bobby G!

I would like to see Dante on par or better than Calgar. Dante is older and more experienced and is Regent of Imperium Nihilus yet currently Calgar is superior.

 

I would like to see the Sanguinor as more of a beatstick.

 

Regarding earlier comments on Sanguinary Guard, I think that AoC has made them very good. While they are only 2W still, they are almost as tough as BGVs, are more mobile and can take a wider variety of weapons. BGVs in Combat with a Dreadnought (or similar Monster) are going to be in touble. SG will still have a decent chance as they can be packing power fists and Inferno Pistols. Much as I would like Primaris SG, the current incarnation are pretty good.

Edited by Karhedron
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i gotta say, it's hard to make BA feel like BA again, without a bunch of jump pack units....sure bikes and the like can theoretically get us into melee in game, but it's just not fluffy. we love to fly through the air, we need jump packs, and we need them to have OBSEC.

 

 

So we need to keep it fluffy by...giving ObSec to units that don't, in the fluff, secure objectives? They take and move on. 

 

I've said it before, BA and WS are mixed up. GW has no clear idea for them that fits the fluff. WS should get +1"/+2" move across the board for INFANTRY/BIKE+FLY, and BA should get advance & charge and 1D. We get extra speed that we need, however not in the predictable manner that RT does right now. 

 

Death company should be one of, if not the, scariest assault units in the game. If the rumours like chaos chosen fixed weapon options are there, or like harlies, we might lose weapon options on them. Maybe a flat 4A, S5, AP-2, D2 on them with a 5+ fnp. This is an effective profile on spawn, minus the random attacks, and would work well combined with power armour and other bonuses. 

 

I'd really want our unique units to be worth taking. Boost Furioso chassis to M8", T8, as they used to be, or make them Sv2+ at least. As above, they are all technically venerable, so that rule works also. 

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i gotta say, it's hard to make BA feel like BA again, without a bunch of jump pack units....sure bikes and the like can theoretically get us into melee in game, but it's just not fluffy. we love to fly through the air, we need jump packs, and we need them to have OBSEC.

 

So we need to keep it fluffy by...giving ObSec to units that don't, in the fluff, secure objectives? They take and move on.

 

I've said it before, BA and WS are mixed up. GW has no clear idea for them that fits the fluff. WS should get +1"/+2" move across the board for INFANTRY/BIKE+FLY, and BA should get advance & charge and 1D. We get extra speed that we need, however not in the predictable manner that RT does right now.

 

Death company should be one of, if not the, scariest assault units in the game. If the rumours like chaos chosen fixed weapon options are there, or like harlies, we might lose weapon options on them. Maybe a flat 4A, S5, AP-2, D2 on them with a 5+ fnp. This is an effective profile on spawn, minus the random attacks, and would work well combined with power armour and other bonuses.

 

I'd really want our unique units to be worth taking. Boost Furioso chassis to M8", T8, as they used to be, or make them Sv2+ at least. As above, they are all technically venerable, so that rule works also.

taking an objective is securing the objective in military parlance.

ASMs secure the objective and then troops would come and hold/defend the objective

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I mean I get it. 5th edition feels...just because we could take ASM as troops 10 years ago doesn't mean we need them now.

 

BA and successors aren't just all jumpy dudes. We just have more dudes that are open to filling those roles.

 

No one takes ASM. It's literally First born DC with JPs and 30 Sang Guard with 1 squad of JP VVs. And it will continue to be that way. Intercessors and incursors are better troops anyways.

 

Every single company pre indomitus had 60 tactical marines and 20 assault marines. You can go back and see that we aren't just jumpy dudes. We've never been just jumpy dudes, except 10 years ago when we had Deep striking land raiders and a Ward Dex.

 

Edit: I didn't mean to come at this so heated but that's one thing that irks me. BA shoe horned into only being jumpy dudes.

 

 

I get your point, but one of the main reasons I went BA over other Chapters was the ability to take Assault Marines as Troops. The Primarch of the Chapter has WINGS - it makes sense (to me at least) that the main part of the attack force be air mobile - or at least air mobile capable. Meaning that there was an option to take Assault Marines as Troops, but you didn't HAVE to put jump packs on them. An easy fix (in my mind) is give BA Assault Intercessors (Troop choice right now) the OPTION to take Jump Packs and remain a Troop choice.

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But that's the problem Matt Ward even denotes in the 5th edition codex that there aren't more assault marines than tactical marines, the companies assault squads were just always full. Making ASM troops was a poor game design, and broke the meta at the time. The same thing would happen now. Being able to push end game objectives for ObSec would be unfair compared to the balances we now see.
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But that's the problem Matt Ward even denotes in the 5th edition codex that there aren't more assault marines than tactical marines, the companies assault squads were just always full. Making ASM troops was a poor game design, and broke the meta at the time. The same thing would happen now. Being able to push end game objectives for ObSec would be unfair compared to the balances we now see.

I don't know if I'd say it broke the meta. It was super popular, for sure, but not meta-breaking.

 

Besides, jump pack as troops came from the White Dwarf PDF dex in 2007, not specifically from Matt Ward (although he included it in the 2009 dex). Death company were competing for the same slot during the Ward-dex era too so doing all Regular Assault Marines (RAS as they were called at the time, I am that old) wasn't even meta when you could run just death company. To speak nothing of the DC Dread you could also take as troops.

 

Regardless, you still had to take rapid firing in the face unless you managed to get close enough to the enemy for a turn 2 charge. And marine combat attacks were still marine combat attacks so not hugely impactful since you're generally averaging a 4+ to hit 4+ to wound on most everything except guard (Which had its own ways to wipe you off the board before you charge) unless you happened to roll that critical 1 for Red Thirst. If I remember correctly, the real meta that I remember happened to be screening unit of DC (either flavor: jump pack or rhino rush) to take the face shots followed by assault marines and sometimes CCW scouts to clean up.

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DC as troops couldn't score though and were terrible on foot as they had to move toward the closest enemy model.

 

5th edition RAS with chasis spam was a very strong and popular army with sanguinary priests for bubble FnP and FC.

 

Foe the longest time in 5th BA were the best dex and GK and Wolves a close 2A/2B. Everything else was just kind of there.

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DC as troops couldn't score though and were terrible on foot as they had to move toward the closest enemy model.

 

5th edition RAS with chasis spam was a very strong and popular army with sanguinary priests for bubble FnP and FC.

 

Foe the longest time in 5th BA were the best dex and GK and Wolves a close 2A/2B. Everything else was just kind of there.

See, maybe my local meta wasn't like that (Portland OR for context) but I was definitely in the minority with regards to Blood Angels. There were maybe two other people and the RAS spam never placed well in local tournaments. It was always GK, Wolves and certain guard gimmicks that later morphed into 6th/7th ed leaf blower lists. Memory is foggy on guard stuff but it was definitely some sort of artillery heavy guard list.

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