MrDarth151

That's because I've learned something about this board quite a while ago: Putting actual effort towards negative critique of things that are praised on this board is a waste of time. It's really not that hard: There are certain opinions that are firmly entrenched here. People are already convinced that I have bizarre vendetta against ADB. Spending a day writing an elaborate response that will get dismissed flat out regardless of what arguments I will make strikes me as counter-productive. So really, what would be the point? I can spend my limited amount of free time on something more productive. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing worth discussing here regarding the subject. It was stupid of me to think otherwise.

Also of note is that Roboute didn't actually survive in a perfect vacuum. He even acknowledges it himself. So I would think Primarchs can still be strangled. Also, not sure if that wasn't actually retconned later into Horus just killing him with the Talon, instead of specifically strangulating him.

I do not make guesses about his intention, but I will say that they come off as such. It's the little things that sometimes annoy me. At any rate, I really care not about to such a degree that I want to continue this discussion. Keep your opinion, and I will keep mine.

And have I criticised that, or have I criticised their exceptionalism? Or is this another case of people not knowing what I'm talking about, and making the most far reaching assumptions just to dismiss my opinions flat out?

Sure. The lesson being, if I recall correctly "Don't criticise ADB, because we are afraid he will leave". Was it you who told me that? Pretty sure it was. Really now. I hardly only criticise ADB. If anything, I've had nothing but praise for his short stories. And considering I have talked with the man extensively, I find him far more receptive to criticism than most of his fans. *Sigh* Stacking powers and feats up on a character doesn't make them more memorable to me. Regardless of who does it.

And has been criticised for it. Perpetuals are one of the things that are not universally accepted and have met with rather mixed reception, so it's kinda disingenuous to bring it up. Most of the criticism period is disingenuous. So is most of the praise. We are talking about fiction, Sturgeon's Law applies. Not really. ADB consistently writes his Astartes as exceptional, even amongst their kind. This, combined with the high end of Astartes effectiveness, creates certain impressions. ADB is not writing in a void. I find it bizarre that people are acting as if he did.

Dunno, I see that opinion a lot in many different communities, most of which do not interact with ADB at all. Perhaps it's the more consistent writing style? Or the fact that ADB has the tendency to write his pov characters as special. I certainly never heard similar complaints about Abnett, and he is no stranger to female characters.

Perhaps instead of derailing thread into talking about Master of Mankind, you could move that discussion into more appropriate topic dedicated to it?

*Sigh* What I mean is that the books are structurally similar enough that an inattentive reader might confuse them for pattern. And when I say that looking for patterns is meaningless I mean that almost everything in modern SF and Fantasy has been done already by someone else. In generalised terms, patterns apply to the genre, not individual writers. Execution is what matters. And all BL writers are hit and miss on that score, so it's not that helpful either. I don't recall ever reading a 40k novel that wouldn't do at least one thing I would like. Except the First Heretic maybe.

Meh. If characters are good, they are good. If they aren't, they aren't. I find looking for patterns to be a generally waste of time. Work should stand on its own.

Of course. It is nevertheless noticeable. I personally don't mind them, but I have no trouble understanding why some might. *Shrugs* I wasn't the one to argue for the interpretation of the universe that makes every action futile. I've lost count how many times people told me that its canon. Internal conflicts are all, at it's base, rooted in ethics. 40k, as intended, is moral and existential nihilism. I just ignore it nowadays, because it makes enjoying it hard. Even with that caveat, I have to say that most of internal conflict falls kinda flat to me. This stems from my personal experience as an ethic; I find that most writers cannot for the live of them make internal conflicts that look meaningful to me. I've had this problem with Argel Tal, for example. I want Sisters of Silence book more. I find them far more interesting.

Not like he is alone in that portrayal. To be entirely frank: The emotionless inhuman super soldiers variant that people pine after is not really conductive to storytelling in the long run. And also, Abnett is the only person to ever successfully sell me on the idea of Space Marines actually being capable of doing what they do.

It's not so much a character pattern, as it is structural one. ADBs novels follow largely similar pattern: There is a Space Marine protagonist who is conflicted, yet highly exceptional, there is one/two major supporting characters, humans, who interact with the Marine protagonist to varying degree and so on, and so forth. It feels similar, even though it really isn't. The characters are different from one another, yet similar enough that you can see certain patterns emerging. To put it simply, the works feel similar because of said structure. On that, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Ultimately, the nature of the universe prevents meaningful internal conflicts.

Not really. If anything, it is limiting his range when it comes to them, and creates the feeling that they are actually the same character with few changes. The feeling is largely superficial, but I do think it has root in his writing style. Because we criticise male character much more harshly. And for that matter, I find that the ABD's habit of writing protagonist as in some way special rubs me the wrong way, and most of them are male, if we can call Space Marines that.

The prose. Something about it just kills my appetite. He generally lacks flair, and often goes into portrayals that I would call... somewhat lacking in nuance. He does better in short stories.