The Chaos Tactica: Iron Warriors

[Vilicate]

Okay, seeing as how all the loyalists are throwing up tacticas, i'd like to start one for us Chaos Guys. And seeing as how i play IW, i think that this would be a cool topic to start, seeing as how many Iron Warriors players we have roaming around out there. Starting off, we will look at the HQ choices that we have to choose from, what's fluffy for them, and what's effective. Anyone out there have any comments?

[Epicurus]

Though I have only played a few 1,000 point games with my new army, I'd have to say that Iron Warrior HQ's can get pretty icky. The servo arm we have access to provides characters with more flexibility than others.

 

CHAOS LORDS

 

A Chaos Lord with 2 lightning claws and a servo arm will wade through basic troopers, vehicles, and characters. Throw in some daemonic gifts and you'll have an effective, yet somewhat expensive, killing machine.

 

LIEUTENANTS

 

Pretty much the same deal as the lord, though I feel a little uncomfortable giving him as many goodies as the lord. I tend to give him as little wargear as possible, but thats mostly because of the low point value games I have been playing recently. I'd imagine him to be quite effective with a kai gun ;)

 

DAEMON PRINCES

 

Every army needs a counter assault unit or two, and a who better to lead one than the premiere close combat monster in the game? After the enemy is softened up with Basilisk shells and heavy weapons fire, the prince should have no problem moping up anything left ;)

 

 

Like I said, all these opinions are formed on my limited experience with the army. I could be 100% wrong ;)

 

Epicurus.

[Vilicate]

Good stuff Epicurus.

 

Here's my take on it:

 

Chaos Lord:

Just 15 points more expensive than the lieutenant, but worth every point. If you want counter-attack done right, this is the guy to do it. Here's how I typically field mine:

 

Chaos Lord Vilicate

Terminator Armor, Ether Lance, Daemonic Strength, Mutation, Close Combat Weapon and Mark of Chaos Undivided

-151 pts

 

You generally want to spend the least amount of point possible to make a killer character, and with Vilicate, you can see that he can shoot fairly well (taking advantage of the stationary aspect of Terminator Armor) and still get a TON of attacks on my lord (6 normal, 7 on the charge!). Effective, but not too expensive.

 

Lieutenant:

A good, cheap, secondary HQ. Maybe a primary, if you're really cheap about HQ points. If you're going for the Ultimate Shooting force, the Kai Gun on this guy is worth every cent (point). I generally don't use one, because i spend too many point on my lord as it is. I don't really have any battlefield experience with this little fella.

 

Daemon Prince:

Really a subset of the Chaos Lord, this dude can unleash some serious pain for little point cost. If i don't use a chaos lord, i'll generally field one of these bad boys. Here's one that i've been wanting to try out:

 

Daemon Prince

w/ 2 CCW's, Daemonic Stature, Daemonic Flight, Daemonic Mutation, Daemonic Strength, and Mark of Chaos Undivided.

-127 pts

 

Very, very cheap, and also very, very nasty in CC. Nastier than about any other character from every other army. Maybe intead of 2 CCWs, take Vemon for wraithlords and others, or maybe talons for some anti-vehicle action.

 

That's my take on HQ's. Anyone else got any opinions?

[ddtedie]

Just to throw my hat into the ring, I hardly ever use either a Daemon Prince or a Chaos Lord, as I like to put a lot of troops down on the table. I have been using 2 LT's lately, one with a power fist and combi-melta (the Warsmith model) and another with a BP power weapon. Both have D. Strenght, and D. aura. I do have a Chaos Lord that is converted up to be a DP if I feel the need. I have only used him once with D. Stature, but to me, if doesn't work fluff wise with the way I have designed my army. At the lower BS it doesn't feel right to me for a shooty army. Again, just my two cents there, and my style of play. I do believe that a DP with DS is highly effective, especially in a counter assualt role, but I have been getting fairly decent results with my 2 LT combo.

[fdsajkl]

I usually get a cheap HQ and use it in place of a champ for one squad or another. It really boosts the squads abilities whilst prolonging the life of the character.

[Crovan]

Hehe wow.

 

I should really pay more attention to what other threads are going. Well, a summary of my thoughts on IW stuff can be seen in the thread I started.

[Dante96]

I didn't think HQ choices could have melta's? Because it's not in the armory...where'd you find out the pts for him? (ddtedie)

 

I agree though that it is really unfluffy for us to have a DP being an IW army...but...considering the army is really shooty in general...i think we can all use a little CC power. Esp if playing other marines or orks/IG. I throw in a DP often with stature, aura, flight, mutation, essence, strength, CCW and resilience. So for 161 pts...you have a beast that's 12" move, ignores armor saves, WS6, S7, T6, W4, I5, A4, and Sv3/5+. It seems to be doing a hell of a job for me so far! Anything gets close to the firing lines...*bam!* the DP has landed.

[crkscrew13]

I didn't think HQ choices could have melta's? Because it's not in the armory...where'd you find out the pts for him? (ddtedie)

HQs pick from the Armoury, which includes all the combi-weapons (combi-bolter, combi-melta, combi-flamer). But, as usual, the non-bolter portion can only fire once a game.

 

Being that I'm just starting my Iron Warriors army, and planning it only as a smaller, secondary army to my Blood Angels, I haven't really got much together yet, but I've planned the following:

 

Chaos Lord (Terminator Armour, Kai Gun, power weapon, Daemonic Essence) - 140 pts, plus a retinue of Chosen Terminators

 

I plan on using this guy most often, as he and the planned retinue I have for him (6 with 2 reaper autocannons) fit the shooty nature of the IW nicely. Plus, I can deep strike these guys in when possible, in order to shore up a weakening section of fire in my lines. I will probably also take him from time to time without the retinue.

 

Chaos Lieutenant/Warsmith (combi-melta, power fist, Daemonic Essence, Daemonic Aura) - 115 pts, probably joining a squad

 

This guy will go in when I need a cheaper HQ choice.

 

Daemon Prince (2 CCW, Daemonic Stature, Daemonic Strength, Daemonic Essence, Daemonic Armor, Daemonic Aura, Daemonic Mutation) - 152 pts

 

I'm loathe to give this guy so many Daemonic Gifts, because he's kind of a points sink that way, but he'll be a great counterattack unit, as others have suggested for him.

 

These choices are pretty open to change, though, as I haven't even bought the Lord or DP yet (so far, I have one IW box, 1 Oblit, and the Warsmith).

[ddtedie]

HQs pick from the Armoury, which includes all the combi-weapons (combi-bolter, combi-melta, combi-flamer). But, as usual, the non-bolter portion can only fire once a game.

Ditto on what he said. And for counter assualt, I use other units, ie chosen termies, oblits and a tac. squad for that role, but those are for later topics when we move on to the elites.

[Vilicate]

Okay Iron Warrior fans, tomarrow at 4 oclock western we're starting elites, so get your comments about hq down now!

[Prot]

There are typically a ga-billion tactics floating around and a lot of them work, but I will respond to this HQ topic because I seem to do something different here.

 

I have experimented with many types of HQ configs but the one that always scores big for me is using a Lord with Kai Gun.

 

The Kai Gun IS fluffy for IW. The Kai gun IMHO is the best Daemon Weapon you can buy for undivided.

 

If you do the math, you get two shots hitting on 2s and against marines, wounding on 2s- no armour saves. A darkblade is harder to hit with and you don't get to fire it from 2 feet away.

 

So I usually use a cheap (120) HQ with Kai gun, throw him in a rhino with 2 melta guns and from a foot away, this squad can drop vehicles or upto 4 marines without saves a turn.

 

Lots of tactica work for other people but this config also really suits my current army list.

[Vilicate]

See now where Prot likes the Kai Gun, i like the Ether Lance. For 35 pts, you get a power weapon and a demi-winds of chaos, all in one neat little package. Combine with with Terminator armor for stationary benefits, you get a nice little punch before the assualt phase.

[Knight who says NI]

Since the new codex came out, I've only been playing 2000 point games. So my HQs tend to be a little expensive.

 

I always use a DP. I don't see why it's unfluffy to have a DP in an IW army. My DP is usually armed with a Dreadaxe, stature, strength (if against marines/necrons), mutation (against eldar, DE etc), spiky bits, aura, ccw, flight, furious charge.

 

My tactics usually follow the tried and tested shoot 'em up and counterassault. My DP is used purely as a counterassault unit. The enemy assault squad would usually already be attacking another unit, usually one of my tac squads. The DP counterassaulting in this way is able to pick the best spot to assault, do the most damage, while taking no damage to himself. With the TAR, it's not wise to take on an assault squad or even a tac squad with a powerfist all by himself.

 

I would have another counterassault unit, or at the most 2, in my army. I want the DP to work this way because I want to put as many points as possible into guns. I this way my DP can counterassault on his own.

 

I don't use chaos lords joined up with another squad. I feel that a chaos lord with an assault squad costs more than a DP but can still only charge a unit at a time. It would also be a little too powerful for its own good. You don't want to destroy the enemy on the turn you charge, because it'll leave you open in the next turn. The chaos lord can move out on his own. But I just think that he's a little too vulnerable on his own with the TAR.

 

Ok guys, that's just my view. Hope it has been useful. ;)

[ddtedie]

Prot, when you use the Kai gun, do you ever have trouble with daemonic mastery test after. One of the reasons I have been afraid to try out the Kai gun is I figure it is going to kill whatever it hits, and with a BS of 5, you are going to be making a lot of mastery tests. Just curious on how well you HQ has done on that account.

[wargame insomniac]

Yep the daemonic mastery tests for kai Gun also concerned me. Otheriwse it would be an excellent fluffy choice for IW.

 

How often have you failed the daemonic mastery tests?

 

Cheers

 

James

[Crovan]

Greetings my Dark Brethren,

 

The following is my standard Warsmith:

 

Warsmith 141 pt.

-Dark Blade

-Bolt Pistol

-Daemonic Aura

-Daemonic Strength

-Furious Charge

-Spiky Bits

-MoCU

 

This guy is a little steep for small games, so I only use him fully kitted out in about 1850 and larger. At any rate, he is a beast. If you get the charge, you get five potential instakill attacks against most characters. In addition, his daemonic gifts come in right at 50 points, so no worries about Grey Knights. I have seen great success with this guy, especially when he goes with a unit of Chosen with 3 PPs, FC, and a Rhino.

 

On a side note, is it just me, or do fewer ppl use LRs? The only army I regularly field them in now is one that's friggin HUGE, or my Deathwing. Just thought I'd ask.

[Prot]

Believe it or not, I've never failed a mastery test. But you know how that works right? Even if you fail, you just take a D6 strength hit (without save) so it's still not a definite wound if you fail.

 

That aside, all the Daemon weapons offer that same risk. What the heck, if I'm going to take a Daemon weapon, I want one that will pay for itself, quickly and a Kai Gun is the answer for me.

[JohanReidel]

Well, here ye here ye! I will now speak my words of wizdom!

 

I build my Hq's cheep and to backup my army, never trying to rely on them to do anything and get happy when they do 2-3 times there points.

 

I'f I'm only using one lord I go with a cheep rock ard lord.

 

Dark Blade

Bolt Pistol

Demonic:

Mutation

Essence

Mark of Chaos Undivided.

121pts!!!

 

This bad boy will serv well in a rino squad boosting ther HtH abilety trifold! He is also cheep and will not hurt me if he dies.

 

If I use 2 Hq's in a game, they will look like this.

 

Warsmith:

Dual Lightningclaws

Spiky bitz

Furies Charge

Demonic:

Strength

Mutation

(Flight) this depends on where I want him.

Mark of Chaos Undivided

 

 

Lt.

Kai Gun

Power Weapon

Demonic: Strenght

Mark of Chaos Undivided

 

Now you have one nasty HtH Warsmith that will gring anything into the floor! And a Lt backing up your fire suport and adding some HtH deffense.

 

/Johan R

 

L

[Whoa Dirty]

This is my current Lord:

 

Dark Blade

Daemonic: Armour, Flight, Aura, & Resilience

Bionics

Frag Grenades

CCW

 

Comes out to 162 points and I usually play 1500-1700 point games. I used to have Spiky Bits instead of the D. Aura and Bionics, but I have made a re-roll twice in the last three games, and in that same span my lord was killed by Power Weapons three times in rediculous situations. I usually drop him in the middle of troop squads that are annoying me. He usually takes out 2 squads a game, or if nothing else, ties them up so they can't do damage to my stuff.

[Vilicate]

Okay, some great points were made, and everyone put in some great ideas. Now let's discuss elites (my favorite)!

[crkscrew13]

Clearly, Obliterators are the #1 Iron Warriors Elites choice, being that you can take up to 9 of them if you're really feeling freaky.

 

Now, having said that, if I was playing my Blood Angels against any Iron Warrior player who thumped 9 Obliterators down on the table, I'd consider it one of the cheesiest moves imaginable. I personally believe the whole reason the 0-1 limit on Oblits was lifted for IW was to facilitate a little more flexibility in our armies, to compensate for the lack of Daemons (in the same way Night Lords get more than 1 squad of Raptors). It allows us to take more than one squad, which consequently allows us to consider more than one target for their wrath.

 

With that in mind, once I get my army together, I plan on using 3-4 Oblits per game, either in 1 squad of 3, 2 squads of 2, 1 of 3 and 1 by itself, or variations like this (this is assuming a 2000 pt. game... obviously I'll be using less in smaller games, sometimes none). I will probably take 2 squads in most games, though, because as I said before, it allows you to designate two seperate targets for their fire, and that, added to the natural flexibility of their body weapons, makes them a force to be reckoned with.

 

However, despite the fact that they can form themselves a handy power fist for close combat, this will be the one unit in my army (aside from tanks) that I will keep as far from close combat as possible. Yes, they're very tough, and have nice armour and such, but they're still easily brought low with a couple power weapons, especially since they always strike at Initiative 1. Plus, if they get stuck in close combat with a large squad, due to their relatively low number of attacks, even if they survive, they're going to be there for a while, which means they can't shoot (ouch!).

 

To balance this, I'm considering for another Elites choice for my army a Chosen Terminator Squad (if my Lord doesn't have a retinue of them) armed with lightning claws and a sprinkling of reaper autocannons. The best of both worlds... heavy weapons and devastating close combat ability.

 

Either that, or perhaps some Possessed with Daemonic Talons (I'm thinking about modelling these with spare Hormigaunt scything talons and Genestealer rending claws that my Tyranid-player buddy has lying around). I'll probably model both eventually, just to give myself some flexibility depending on what I'm facing.

 

Ok, that's enough out of me on Elites.

[ddtedie]

crkscrew13, you are doing exactly what I have done. For me, Elites are my 3 Oblits, and a squad of Chosen in Termie armor. I use the Oblits to draw fire away from my tac. squads, and throw them into hand to hand combat when the enemy gets withing range, and of course, I make the difficult terrain roll. To back up the Oblits in my 2000 point games, I use a 5 man Chosen Termie squad, and they will usually clean up what the Oblits don't. But, to me the Oblits really shine with their mobile fire platforms. Lascannons for the enemy tanks, and twin link plasma or melta gun shots for the up close Space Marines before they charge into my Oblits. As to adding more to my forces, I have played around with the thought, but so far, 3 in one unit do me fairly well, and with my heavy support choices that I use, I think I would be pushing the envelope on the "cheese" factor myself. I still want good challenging games, and don't want to sucumb to the old Eldar Wraithlord debate.

[Epicurus]

OBLITERATORS

 

Arguably the best unit in the game. They are versatile, tenacious, and cheap when cosidering the carnage they can unleash. The removal of the 0-1 limit is definately one of our biggest advantages when it comes to army building. The ability to field 9 obliterators makes us one of the most feared armies out there. The scariest part is how that fear is totally justified.

 

Personally, I don't use any. This stems mostly from how I feel massive amounts of obliterators have become a cliche as far as IW armies are concerned, and I wish to break the paradigm (however it is spelled. Its 2 am. I'm a little drunk. ;)). I think including one or two would be a great idea, but it is easy to over do it on these guys. You really need to keep in mind the other options the list provides.

 

 

CHOSEN

 

These guys just plain rock. With enough of them, you can basically add another havoc squad to your army. While thats nice, they are most effective when given terminator armor. There isnt much to be said about chaos terminators that hasnt been said already. The variety of weapons available to them makes them excellent in hand to hand while maintaining a sickening amount of fire power.

 

POSSESSED MARINES

 

These are my all time favorites. They arent as cost effective as terminators, nor the obliterators, but they can still pack a punch. Some abiltities are overpriced (flight comes to mind...), but the majority of them are really killer. Daemonic talons is perhaps the most useful in my eyes. Their cost makes them somewhat less useful in lower point games, but in 1,500+, I'm certain they will make their points back if they hit close comabt.

 

The biggest reason I am drawn to them I guess is the conversion and painting possibilities. I'm a sucker for robots and cyborgs, and it doesnt get any better than thse guys when it comes to that.

 

I think I covered all of them. If not, I blame the Killian's.

 

"Iron within, Iron Without."

 

Epicurus

[Crovan]

Well, I don't go into a lot of detail on my Tactica article on the specific Elites troops, so I'll do it in here ;)

 

On Elites:

 

Possessed: Ok, these guys are just plain nasty. I give them a Rhino, MoCU, and Daemonic Talons. I have seen them tear it up, especially when coupled with a capable HtH HQ. The one real drawback here is points cost, and the lack of veteran abilities. I would seriously P|-|34r a Possessed unit with FC. Generally, I don't use these in games under 2000 points, because they just cost so much to equip well. If you can afford them however, they are a great addition, and make wonderful counter assault units (CAUs).

 

Chosen: This is actually what my usual choice is in 2000 and lower point games. I love the fact that you can have 3 special weapons in a squad of nine. If you give 6 of them BP&CCW and 3 of them meltaguns, then put them with a rock hard HQ, then they are a very potent unit. If you don't want to lose any attacks, give them PPs instead of MGs. Also, I tend to give these guys Furious Charge, which, in my opinion, is the best Veteran Skill we have.

 

Obliterators: Mmmmm....tasty. Remember when these guys sucked? Boy were they overpriced. I only have two words to say to GW concerning the new obliterator rules: "Thank you!". These guys rock! I typically run a unit of 3 or 2 units of 2 to avoid shorting myself of potential CAUs. There is nothing these guys can't do! They really do add a good deal of tactical flexibility to your Iron Warriors army. I recommend them uber alles.

[Vilicate]

Okay, i'll throw in my 2 cents:

 

Possessed:

I have yet to use them in my IW. I have used them in my DG though, and with great success. I'd imagine that Daemonic Talons or Visage would be the way to go...maybe even daemonic fire for iron warriors!

 

 

Terminators:

My favorite unit. I nearly always take a unit of 6 with all LC's and/or PF's and 2 reapers. Costs a pretty penny, but i think that the unit is totally worth it. The main advantage of terminators is that they (now let's get this all together now):

Don't give up firepower for Close Combat Prowess.

So not only are they good at shooting things a long way away, but are a hard-core CC unit as well.

 

Obliterators:

Quite possibly the most controversial unit in the new dex. Definately one of the most powerful units in the game, and ranks up there in the chaos dex for usefulness. I love em, and put a min of 2 (usually 4) in my 1850 pts of Iron Warriors.

 

Epicurus: Dude, Killians? Come on. Well, at least it's not the Beast. ;)