+ Tactica Project: Know Thy Foe +

[Ranulf]

Eldar,.. of the darker,.. more evil variety. :P

 

This thread is for the discussion of tactics for use against the forces found within Codex: Dark Eldar.

 

Up and atom!

 

-Ran

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Ahh, the (even more) Evil flavor of Eldar! ;)

 

I fought long and hard against the Dark Eldar when 3rd Ed. was released but not too much since their revision but some things still holds true.

 

A few tips:

 

1. Shoot the Raiders! You must deny them their mobility, especially now if you use the TVR and if they make it into 4th Ed. They can strike almost anywhere on the tabletop if not stopped. Not as extreme as Blood Angels in overcharged Rhinos but together with their Fleet of Foot they can reach your soft targets quite easily if not stopped.

 

2. Shoot the Archon/Drachon! With a Shadowfield, Combat Drugs and Agonizer they can give most of your units and Characters a real headache... Shoot even more if he

[Krave]

Raiders are target #1, then turn your AT weapons on any Talos in the area. PF can nail them in cc, but it's better if they never get any attacks against you. Even bolters are a good shooting weapon-the average dark twinkie has T3 and a 5+ save. Think guardsmen and their survivability under fire. Shoot the wyuches, even with blood claws. They are highly nasty but are ven easier to shoot than the warriors. And don;t bother with BEL scouts-a good DE army won;t have any one in their DZ.

[FabulousRex]

Against DE, it's definately time to field that Whirlwind, perhaps moreso than against Tyranids! Why? Because it'll be your best Anti-Tank weapon against them! ::cuss:

 

Think about it, S5 against paper AV10 means you'll have a decent chance to do something against them. But wait! It gets better! ;) Whirlwinds are template weapons, and so cause 2 hits per Raider under the template! Instantly double your chance to kill them! Wait, there's more! :P Whirlwinds are Ordanance, meaning you roll 2 dice and pick the highest per hit! But wait! Raiders are open-topped, so you get +1 to your damage-table roll! But wait! If you can hit them before they move and get a Penetrating hit, you've got a 1in3 chance of vaporizing the whole Raider and everything in it!

 

So if you know where that nasty Archon with or without Retinue is at, drop some missles on her ride, and you'll have a decent chance of obliterating her entirely! Also, if you can clip more than one Raider, odds are very good that you'll down both of them. And what can help you to hit those Raiders before they move? Good ole Mr.Venerable Dreadnought. The usual Plasmacannon does a great job of swatting Raiders, and will insta-frag any Grotesqe screens that he's got.

 

As for other units, I'ld recommend to go completely Mechanized (same goes for all Eldar!), so you can almost match his speed, and protect your guys from the plethora of Pinning attacks that they get. Also a good idea are Attack Bikes with Heavy Bolters, they will make mincemeat of anything in their army save a Talos, and are best used in combat against Wyches (2+Sv plus them needing 6 to wound is funny!).

 

Speeders are a very good idea, but your best variant is the Typhoon. I'm a fan of the model anyways, but against DE they are invaluable. Why? Because they have a very long range twin-linked S5 Blast weapon! A Typhoon can dance out of range of all their guns (none longer than 36"), and pick off Raiders one-per shot, or blow holes in Warrior Squads. The usual Multimelta mounted on there is also good to do a fly-by on a Talos. Typhoons are awesomely under-rated Space Marine vehicles, and against DE they really shine!

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Come to think of it auto-cannons is one of the best all around weapons against them, excellent range, perfect against that vehicle upgrade that adds range to your weapon, - shadow field? Night shield..?

High strenght, you won

[Krave]

Watch out for agnoizer carrying models, they will have I5-6 and it always wounds on a 4+, ignoring saves. So a S3 leader can suddenly kill you're attack bikes like nothing. Of course, they only have 2-4 attacks inc all bonuses, so if you swarm them with blood claws it's another story.

 

One thing-in attacker/defender missions, dark eldar are always the attacker. Keep this in mind.

[Mountain Angel]

It's simple really... do like the cowboys and circle the wagons. DE like to divide and conquer. If you keep all your forces together, they are screwed hard. Raiders are easy to drop... once those warriors are footing it, the gig is up! Pound away and pound away as they come towards you. Then send in a squad of tooled out scouts to drop another Raider or even the Archon.

 

Now you can use divide and conquer to take out any scragglers dim enough to head your way.

 

:P

[Volsung]

Try to shoot down the Raiders in the following order:

 

1] Archon (Dracon) with Incubi Bodyguard -Power Weapon weilding I5 baddies.

 

2] Wyches- one of "those" units that you just don't assualt.

 

3] Archon (Dracon) with Warrior Bodyguard- not such a threat without his bodyguard.

 

4] Raider Squad (Warriors)- not really a threat in CC, but can fly around and do some drive-by shooting and pinning.

 

If you do not know which Raiders have which models on them, then ask your opponent. He HAS to tell you as they are open topped. (If he wouldn't tell you then you can ask him to place the models on their transports)

[Brother Draconus]

I play against a DA wytch army. this is nasty in close combat. It gets even worse in city fight.

 

 

#1 Target- RAIDERS. if u deny them the ability to get to u fast than they r easily mowed down

[dveillo]

Nobody mentioned Ravagers.

I played w/ 3x Ravagers w/ each armed w/ 3x Disintegrators.

Basically, that's 9x Plasma Cannons firing at ya.

It's a sick, sick thing sometimes.

Shoot dem mofo's.

:devil:

[Malcavitch]

The general concensus of this thread as of yet is that you shoot the vehicles. I agree, though this is much harder then it sounds on some tables with decent cover.

 

I think that the most priority should be given to the HQ squad. The more tooled the squad is, the more that you should aviod it in combat. Any other squad, take shots as you can and when the oppurtunity presents itself.

 

Nobdy has mentioded scourges, these can really mess up tactics. It is a heavy support squad that has jump packs. Either four strength 8 ap 2 weapon, or assault 4 bolter.

[the great beaver]

but shoot them with what....honestly....this is one more place that Im going to shout out those wonderful words

 

LEMAN-RUSS-EXTERMINATOR

 

WOOT!!! okay why? because your dropping vehicles, squads, troops, anything just like flies and its AV14 in the front (whose your daddy)

 

 

on the other hand....this is the one army that has made me feel the need to leave my BCjumppackers at home why? (not like anyone else actually uses them but anyways) because their whole "uncontrollable+WS3" against WS4 fodder armies is no good

 

I learned my lesson after one silly little squad of warriors kept my BCJPs busy for 5 turns....blah...

 

oh yeah....and those retinues get munched by ven dreads....dont think they can even take anything that hurts it....careful though..youll be in combat for ever.....

[sonsoftaurus]

We've heard a lot about the vulnerability of the DE skimmers, and the need to take out their mobility.

 

But don't forget that there are other ways to do it without actually shooting them down --- don't forget area denial. Park a very threatening unit, like a Vindicator, in one area where it can't fire/be shot at directly at first, but threatens a large area - watch the DE very carefully avoid the arc of doom. The "big threat" can help you channel the DE towards the rest of your force, which can support each other more not having to worry about flankers/etc.

 

And once he's committed to coming down a concentrated area of attack, pop smoke & reposition the Vindi 12" to threaten him directly now, and watch the DE scatter, and marvel at the amount of firepower thrown at the Vindi. Either he commits to destroying the Vindi/scatters to avoid damage (allowing you to more easily pick him apart), or he ignores it, allowing you to vape a large section of his concentrated force. Either way, you benefit.

 

DE are a foe that Bikers can work well against as well. Expensive, yes, but useful in larger games where you've already got the basics covered. Able to move 12, shoot 24 TL or double-tap at 12 TL, ignore most DE armor, able to fire at one unit and charge another one...very nice. Helps to further counterbalance one of the DE's main edges - mobility.

[Mjalnar]

i leave my leman russ at home against all eldar. dark lances, how i hate you. instead i favor long fangs, able to, with the proper posistion, atleast stall around 2 transports a turn. this leads to my #1 strat against de. CLOSE THE GAP. scouts also help with this to try and break up some of the long range support de has. the sooner you get to de warriors, the sooner they die

[Brother Chaplain Darius]

Okay, it took me forever, but I think I'm finaly ready to write up some 13th Co tactics. Wewt!

 

Alright, we'll do a unit-by-unit break down, and I'll be doing it as if I we're in a 1500 point game. When I play the DE, I'm usually in a very defensive stature, as they are so much faster than we are its not even funny.

 

HQ]

Wolf Lord- I take a biker lord usually, but that may not be your style. Also, remember the tactics vary WIDELY for the two of them.

 

If you want a biker lord this is what I'll normally take: Bike, Frost Blade, BoR, MotW, Frags, Wolf Pelt, +4 'risian wolves. Let this guy hit a nice meaty warrior squad and they will be quickly butchered as they can't penetrate his bike-toughened hide. Just don't have him run into some incubi alone or something... thats bad news.

 

The footslogger usually looks like this: Frost Blade, BoR, Bolt Pistol, MotW, Frags Wolf Pelt.

In this setup he usually is a countercharge unit, trying to contain the enemy in the even they hit the line (BAD). I also have him hang with the storm claws, and use the whole unit to counter charge, trying to focus my fists of fury on the Archon or whoever.

 

Rune Priest: I take my usual "Gate Up Yo Azz" setup here (TDA, Frost Blade, Combi-Melta, MotW)

 

I'll also try and do some wacky stuff with him such as: Equip him with a combi-flamer, put him with a GS squad with 2x Flamers and WGPL w/ Combi Flamer and gate on an incubi that got dumped out of thier transport by my LF squad. Only if you just want to have fun though, trust me, the DE guys face will be priceless... i think i dropped what 35 wounds on his Incubi? Not counting bolters? HeeHee!

 

Elites]

Wulfen- Take 'em if you want to... I personally am not a fan of them. Dont take less than 10 though. Maxed out Wulfen rule the universe.

 

Storm Claws- Dems is my Babies. Chances are, you will do horrendous damage with these guys. My suggested setup is this- 7x BP CCW, 2x Power Fists, WGPL w/ MotW, THUNDER HAMMER and B.P. Try REALLY hard to attack his incubi. You heard me! Let him charge you, and counter charge with your SC squad!! Try as hard as you can to get that thunder hammer into BtB w/ the Archon/Drachon. One hit will kill him, but if you can't get through that shadow field he'll be swinging at the same time as your powerfists. Not to mention, if he's busy with another unit, chances are he won't be able to deliver enough attacks to bring down enough claws to stop your fists from crushing him.

 

Troops]

 

Grey Slayers- Do not take any less than to Maxed Out hard core squads w/ WGPLs w/ Power Fists and MotW. As for equipment, its up to you, if you like plasma guns... Thats fine, in fact, it doesnt sound like too bad of an idea. Remember, when gating, many of the DE vehicles will have an upgrade that adds 6"

ONLY DO THIS FOR FUN:

Just for fun, make a gating squad w/ two flamers and a WGPL w/ a combi-flamer, power fists, MotW. Gate them with a Rune Priest w/ Combi-Flamer, Frost Blade, Motw, TDA. Pop a Raider (preferably the one with the archon/incubi retinue in it) and drop four flamers on em!!

 

Fast Attack]

 

Bikers- Only take em at 1501+, otherwise you'll have to skimp on other, more urgent things.

My personal favorite is the 3x powerfist setup.

 

Fenrisian Wolves- As many as you can get...

 

Heavy Support]

 

Long Fangs- 4x Missile Launchers! Split fire and you can probably bring down 2 raiders/ravagers a turn. Just make sure they're screened or they'll die REALLY fast.

 

----------------------------------

 

Primary Objectives with the 13th Company:

 

#1) Kill The Raiders!!!

 

#2) Shoot the Incubi!!!

 

#3) Shoot The Wytches (some would say this is tied for 2 :) )

 

#4) Shoot/ Assault the Warriors... they're meatshields basically, just watch out for blasters.

[MadMonk]

Do not forget the Ravanger, It can carry 3 semi low powered plasma cannons. With a rapided fire option that cam make it shoot 9 str4 shots at 24 inchs with a marine BS.

[Brother Draconus]

i still give wytches a higher priority

[the great beaver]

I have to say that the exterminators move and shoot (everything) capability with TVR makes the jump out and touch someone a viable tactic against bright/dark lances...

 

 

also, Ive heard of people being very afraid of those (whaddya call them dark eldar dreadnaught things that look like scorpions???), but theyre so easy to avoid it isnt funny....

 

 

I guess though that once my opponent buys that warp gate thing it might be different.....

[Wolf Seminole]

My friend plays a dark eldar army and i cant help but laugh as i think of how easy it is to kill them. With T3 a measly bolter shot can down on on a score of a 3+.

Now everyone thinks to down the raider first and i agree but dont get over zealous and waste your shots. Too many times have i gone on a rampage to find my shooting phase is over and all the raiders are gone but then there I am out in the open just waiting for the whiches to come in and feast on some wolf.

Take blood claws on bikes and engage the enemy. DO NOT GET INTO A FIREFIGHT WITH THESE SCRAWNY BEASTS!!! as soon as their engaged you take away their 2 greatest weapons. Their Firepower and their mobility. Next worry about the Talos and the wyches.

Talos is a deadly close combat weapon and if hes smart he'll position it in such away that it will be able to attack first unit that engages the warriors.

Wyches are last but not least. Deadly in hand to hand but can easily be out firepowered. Take them out with some Grey Hunters so u dont have to waste precious artillery shell.

 

#1 Raider

#2 Other tanks (Ravager)

#3 Wyches

#4 Warriors (dont underestimate)

 

Well thats all there is to beating the dark eldar.

[Erik Redfang]

Do your best to keep away from wyches, or better yet, send a ven dread at them:

"WOW! LOOK! DARK ELDAR DRUGGIES! LET'S THROW A CLOSE COMBAT MONSTER AT THEM!!!!"

 

heh. so fun.

 

hmm.... raiders, eh? They, must, DIE! I can't stress this enough. Whatever they might be carrying should be targeted once they have been grounded. Blow them up with dreadnoughts with lascannons *so that those dark lances dont work to full effectiveness - the AV stays the same, unlike with a pred*

 

dark eldar lord with shadowfield? my friend had one of those once..... my ven dread saw to that. a talos, eh? hmmm.

 

my ven dread's plasma cannon saw to that.

 

now that i think about it..... all of life's DE related problems can be solved by throwing giant robots at them..... take advantage of that.

[ethan hunt]

raiders arent tht scary most of the time, theyre just annoyin, the only real advantage of shootin em is the dark eldars 5+ armor save their likely to fail wen u blow the transports up. Wyches and warriors dont even get to your lines if you have lots of heavy bolters tho, killing on 2+ and ignoring their armour. Just focus on the raiders first then have a nice line of HBs ready to blast the survivors to pieces.

 

PS All very gud sayin about the exterminators but just bcoz they arent in the imperial guard list they stopped producin em so i dont have 1

[Rathnard]

First off, I have been playing Dark Eldar for a long time, so I definately know what I'm talking about.

 

For normal space wolves, HTH will only work if you can out number them (in the case of wyches), and any incubi/Lords/taloi are dead.

Don't bother with heavy vehicles like land raiders becayuse the Dark lances will mince them. Rhinos and (especially) land speeders are the only vehicles you should consider.

Dreadnoughts are an excellent choice, since the Dark Eldar don't do all that well against them in HTH. Just try not to get them shot up however, as these will be a priority target for most DE players.

 

For 13th co.

Boy, are you in for a tough time or what? The DE's mobility will make it almost impossible to catch them in HTH, and their shooting will slowly whittle you down until there's nothing left. A smart DE player will hold back the assault units until he's confident they'll totally outmatch you in HTH.

 

Long fangs may help, but their static nature and small squad size will probably make them very vulnerable. If you do take them, ignore the lascannons/plasma cannons and load out on missle launchers/heavy bolters.

 

Other than that, speed is the key here. Take wulfen (duh), and probably also wolves for a distraction. This would also be the one situation I'd seriously consider taking bikes too. Their speed is really needed, and if they get into HTH, the T5 will be a serious problem for most DE (watch the agonisers though).

 

Probably your biggest secret weapon here would be the Rune Priest. The DE often split their army, since they're almost always the ones choosing where and when to fight. But with a rune priest, you can pounce on isolated squads and cause some serious damage with a hail of bolter fire.

 

As for weaponry, flamers are the bane of DE, although you will probably appreciate the range granted by a plasma gun more (no intellegent DE player will get within 14" of a flamer unless they can assault the unit that turn). Melta guns are slightly overkill (can't score penetrating hits on a moving raider), although they're still more likely to kill a raider at short range than a non-rapid firing plasma gun.

 

I wouldn't bother with the storm claws at all. The only advantage they have over grey slayers is the extra power weapons, and they aren't exactly needed against the DE. The ranged fire you get with grey slayers will be far more useful.

[Wolf Seminole]

Ive been hearing rumors that dark eldar are going out anyway, there just not selling. So learn the tactics they had in 3rd edition and youll be set cause theres no new rules for them :D :huh:

[Wolf Seminole]

raiders arent tht scary most of the time, theyre just annoyin, the only real advantage of shootin em is the dark eldars 5+ armor save their likely to fail wen u blow the transports up.

Raiders may not be scary, but the fact that they can carry a unit of 10 24 inches up the board and you can only glance, thats scary. Personaly i make them my number one goal but its up to you.

 

By the way avoid getting in to cc with the lord or whoevers equiped with shadow field, i hate the 2+ invulnerable save.

 

Another thing if they have asdrubul fire at it every turn then cc it cause that is one scary beast

[Rathnard]

Ive been hearing rumors that dark eldar are going out anyway, there just not selling. So learn the tactics they had in 3rd edition and youll be set cause theres no new rules for them :) ;)

First off, the DE will still be usable in 4th ed. and like every other army, their tactics will probably change slightly as the new ruleset is introduced.

 

Secondly, from what I've heard the DE are here to stay, and will probably get a codex at some point after the Eldar codex (apparently they plan on mapping out both races in terms of background/theme at the same time).

 

We're not done with you yet... :D

 

(BTW, this is getting off topic, so we should probably finish the discussion right here. If you want to continue, PM me instead or start a new thread...and PM me with a link to it. :huh: )

 

 

Back to tactics:

Raiders should definately be a priority. What ever they're carrying is bound to cause you some pain if they get close enough. Ravagers with 3 disintegrators also need to be knocked out early, as they can easily kill at least half a marine squad, and potentially the entire unit, each turn.

 

As for the Lord, if he's on his own and you're able to mob him with infantry, you should probably be able to take him down (expect a few casualties though). The shadowfield is nasty, but that lord is screwed the moment he fails one of those saves.

 

Above all, DO NOT underestimate the Dark Eldar. An experienced DE player is more than capable of eating marine armies for breakfast. The DE may be a tough army to use with alot of obvious weaknesses, but in the right hands they're one of the most dangerous armies around.