The effect of Geneseed on DIY Chapters

[Aurelius Rex]

There have been a number of interesting discussions about the effects of geneseed on the character of DIY chapters here in the last month, and more particularly in the last week.

 

Some of this has been discussed in the Chapter Creation Uberthread, but there were some other interesting points raised... Sounds like an opportunity for a discussion. :blush:

 

 

Let's get the ball rolling:

 

 

What effect does geneseed have on the character of a DIY chapter?

 

 

Nature position:

 

A Marine's Geneseed is a biological link back to his Primarch. In a way they become closer to their Primarch in terms of their character, outlook and even physical attributes.

 

Admittedly, this effect varies in strength, and is most pronounced in the Sanguinius and Leman Russ genelines, and debatably least obvious in the Roboute Guilliman and Rogal Dorn successors.

 

 

Nurture position:

 

While geneseed plays its part, the biggest effect for most chapters is their environmental conditions - the culture, history and homeworld - and the teachings / dogma passed down to them by their 'parent' chapter will be dominant.

 

Given, the Space Wolves (if they had any living successors) and Blood Angel successors are a special case. They have the Black Rage and the curse of Sanguinius to contend with, which dominates for a number of reasons.

 

Other than these extreme cases, the small effect can, and should be over-ridden by other factors. The Mortifactors - a bunch of headhunting cannibals - nothing like the Ultramarines! The Crimson Fists and Black Templars - dramatically different from each other, and their parent chapter, the Imperial Fists!

 

 

The Middle Ground / fluff position:

 

Even for the extreme cases like the SW and BA, the character of the parent chapter can give you a starting point for your DIY chapter that you can then take in your own direction - give them their own unique spin.

 

When making a DIY then following either of the two camps to the extreme would be potentially unfortunate. You do not want a clone of the parent chapter, they should be distinct and original in their own right or otherwise you may as well just have played the parent chapter themselves.

 

Conversely, if you have decided that White Scars geneseed was used to create a chapter, then you can at least consider if there are ways you can incorporate elements of the Jahatai Khan heritage into your chapter, or at least consider what other factors stopped it from shining through.

 

Another example. It would be dull indeed if all Raven Guard successors were one-note sneaky Jump packers - the Raptors have adapted the sneaky bit with stealth / jungle training. Look out for them in Imperial Armour 3... :P

 

If you have no strong reason to link them to the character of a primarch, then they could easily be made Ultramarine successors. These chapters make up two-thirds of the Adeptus Astartes after all, and we have already seen that extreme deviations from the codex are possible.

 

 

OK. Who is next into the debating ring? :ph34r:

[Barret]

Personally, I'm in the 'Nuture' camp, myself. While certain Geneseeds, the SW and BA specifically, have innate mutations built in, a Successor Chapter will likely have a characte largely its own, based upon its founding officers, the world it recruits from and the enemies it fights.

 

That said, however, there is much to be seen in the balanced look at things. I think that the key factor in swinging it one way or the other is whether or not a Chapter knows who's geneseed they have, and how much exposure to their parent Chapter they have.

 

For example, a new Chapter is Founded on White Scars geneseed. They do not know who's geneseed they carry, and their founding officers come from a Codex background and especially the culture of the peoples they recruit from, if they are based on a specific world.

 

Actually, before I continue, I should clarify something. I am of the opinion that the initial command staff of a new Chapter, Chapter Master, Reclusiarch, etc, are all drawn from existing Chapters to serve in the new one. I don't think it's feasible to simply decant a new Marine and say, 'Yep, he looks like a Master'. A new Marine simply wouldn't have the experience to lead an entire Chapter, and would be centuries in gaining said experience.

 

To continue the example. The White Scars Successor, headed by Codex officers, adopts a Codex formation and tactics. While perhaps they might have a higher proportion of Marines drawn to Fast Attack squads, they would be what they are trained to be. Case in point: the Storm Lords, a 2nd Founding White Scars Successor, I have always seen represented carrying heavy weapons and having Dreads, something that the White Scars are not exatly known for.

 

However, another Chapter is founded, this time from Imperial Fists geneseed, but its officers and training come from a White Scars background, and are assigned to a 'steppe' world. They would most likely become a largely mounted or mechanized Chapter utilizing highly mobile warfare, in spite of the fact that their parent Chapter is a siege-oriented Chapter.

 

I would assume, given my above examples, that the more strongly 'deviant' a Chapter's geneseed, the more likely they are to be similar to their parent Chapter. A Blood Angels Successor will likely be bloodthirsty, but a Dark Angels non-Unforgiven Successor is hardly guaranteed to be secretive and stand-offish, especially if they are trained by non-DA officers. Plus, again, there are the outside influences to be considered. The Crimson Fists, for example, are now a Chapter highly skilled at fighting Orks, with an unusually high percentage of specialists to Tactical Marines, a highly non-Codex behaviour for an originally strictly Codex Chapter. Even the Ultramarines are drifting from the Codex as they are forced to adapt to their bitterest enemies.

 

The recruits a Chapter takes on are another big factor. The Night Lords, for example, clearly show how influential this can be. They went from being a crusading Chapter dedicated to the Imperium to a paranoid, vicious group of killers, simply because they were inducting hard-bitten criminals into their ranks. The Iron Warriors, too, were largely shaped because of their experiences.

 

To move into DIY examples, The Fighting Tigers of Veda were (most likely) founded from Ultramarine geneseed, but they are one of the most unCodex Chapters out there, both because of their core officers' beliefs, the influence of the indigenous peoples on their home world, and their early experiences, namely the near-death and entombment of their Founder, and the splitting of the Chapter between two leaders.

 

Just because a Marine grows fangs doesn't mean he's going to enjoy feasting and boozing and hittin' people...

[jimmythemoose]

A simple rule of thumb. A vanilla parent geneseed (fists, ultras) can create either a divergent successor or a vanilla successor. A mildly divergent chapter (raven guard, white scars etc.) can create a mildly divergent chapter or a nearly generic chapter ( but with some quirks). An extremely divergent chapter can only create an extremely divergent successor.

 

Thats what I think.

 

PS: It annoys me that people have started using THVTOV like they're an approved chapter. They are not. Female marines. Case closed. This wasn't specifically aimed at Barrat, I've just noticed others doing it as well.

[Barret]

I just use the Fighting Tigers 'cause they're a Chapter pretty much everybody knows about, so provide a ready example. I'm not gonna touch the female Marine issue here. I know they're not approved, just common knowledge.

 

That, and I'm a big fan 'o The Jungle. :blush:

[Aurelius Rex]

Good points. I can't disagree with anything above. Y'know, this could get dull if we reach a consensus this early in the night. :blush:

 

+++ EDIT: I say that and then the 'female marines' thing appears! :P Best not to get into the double X chromosone thing here... :ph34r: +++

 

I should say that I am of the opinion that chapters are trained by a cadre of experienced marines from their parent chapter, so this muddies the nature / nurture debate (as it so often is in real life!) as if they are taught as a fledgeling chapter by White Scar marines, and they would already have Khan geneseed, then what is the dominant influence?

 

Similarly, the marines sent to train them may well have particular specialties or quirks that are taken as gospel in the new chapter.

[Barret]

You're right! Consensus is dull.

 

So, to switch sides.

 

 

We've seen from the Blood Angels, the Night Lords and the Space Wolves (to name the one's I'm sure about) how strong and lasting an effect a Primarch can leave on his 'children'. Sanguinius especially springs to mind. It is not only his particular mutations, but his genetic memories that make the BA the way they are, and cause the Black Rage. Granted, the BR is caused because the BA used the flesh of Sanguinius' corpse to create now BAs, thus giving them the genetic memory of his death, Dune-style. So, if that traumatic an event can have such a powerful effect on his 'children', what would other Primarchs pass on from their strong feelings?

 

We saw from both Perturabo and the Night Haunter how a Primarch's paranoia and viciousness (anybody remember Konrad vs Dorn?) onto his Legion, having a lasting effect that has stretched down through the millenia.

 

So, thus posited, what about the other, loyalist Primarchs? I think it's a fairly safe statement that the Primarchs were all touched by extraordinary forces, both from the Emperor (who, remember, was born around 9000BC) and the Chaos powers who scattered them across the galaxy. Ergo, they would almost be a repository for powerful images, feelings, behaviours. If we accept Sanguinius passing on genetic memory, then we must accept that the other Primarchs would have been able to do so. For example, Dorn was well known for his refusal to admit defeat and back down, which was why the Iron Cage was so effective. This can be clearly seen in his Successor Chapters, the IF, CF and BT. All highly zealous chapters who take after their Primarch in behaviours. This has even carried over into DIY fluff, as most (knowingly) IF Successors share that trait. Death Before Dishonour was made for Dorn's kids.

 

To go even more subtle, what about Jaghati Kahn? He obviously favoured highly mobile warfare, characteristic of steppe peoples. Would I be wrong in asserting that he would have enjoyed the feeling of freedom from ripping across the tundra at speed, savouring the lack of control and ability to react quickly? If he did, and I do think he did, then that would likely have been strong enough to pass down in genetic memory, hence the reason why the White Scars and Successors, to this day, prefer bikes and Land Speeders and mobile war (although probably less so since they lost their specific rules :blush: ).

 

It's impossible to really comment upon the Space Wolves, simply because they are such an insular culture with no room for variation, and their own Successor, the Wolf Brothers, met with a rather sticky end and there have been no further Chapters founded on SW geneseed.

 

This arguement struggles when we get to Guilliman and the Ultras. There's no clear evidence what Roboute would have passed down in genetic memory, beyond perhaps a love of order, but, as has been shown, there are Chapters hideously divergent from his Codex. Of course, it is the nature of statistics that if you increase the sample range, more variation appears, and Ultra geneseed accounts for, what, about 666 Chapters (spooky)?

 

 

 

Howzat for lack of consensus? :P

[Ferrata]

I'm agree with all that has been said, bar the last post. I think it's pretty much the same as real life. From your parents you get what you look like (Raven Guard --> Pale Skin) and you get style from your upbringing and life. So in 40k terms:

 

2 new chapters are formed using the raven guard geneseed.

 

Now, extreme choices, one is trained by the Raven Guard, the other by the Imperial Fists.

 

200's later, after a pretty much boring life for both of them. We look at the results.

 

Both have pale skin, the genetics from the geneseed.

 

Those trained by the raven guard now like to fly around in the air, while the Imperial Fist trained ones are stubborn and like to use tanks/big weapons.

 

Add to this other factors, such as their homeworld and more nurture influences crop up.

 

Nurture vs Nature

 

eeeekk

 

Ferrata

[TheDeinonychus]

Alright, first off let me start by saying the DIY chapter that me and Barret have been working on, the Sons of Dagda, have no idea who their geneseed comes from. A casual observation may point toward Russ, but there's no strong proof, since to date a record of their geneseed's origins have not appeared in Imperial records.

 

Their very uncodex nature stems from firstly the enviroments of their homeworld. The dominant terrain is much like how Scottland was on earth. Extensive hills and mountians, with sprawling forests and glens, and lowland bogs and marshes. This sort of enviroment would lend more towards a harsher, more barbaric way of life.

 

Secondly, unlike some other chapters, the Sons of Dagda live and interact in close proximity with the population their ranks are raised from. This accounts for many of the native customs being part of the marines' normal ways of life. It's not everywhere you'll see a low-tech village where it's not uncommon to see a marine in full armor walking down the dirt road. Marines and commoners there more or less share the same way of life, albet the marines are more akin to how a medevil knight would be to commoners in europe of the time.

 

So the Sons of Dagda are mostly a product of their enviroment and the people they live with, rather than reflecting the genetic blueprint of their geneseed.

 

Personaly Im one that believes that a person's genes leans them towards a certian way of life, but a person's enviroment plays a bigger role in how they develop, with their genetic makeup just influenceing how they react and adapt to it.

[Barret]

Right, like TheDeinonychus said, though statistically, the Sons of Dagda original geneseed is probably Ultra or IF, but the automatic assumtion is that they're descendants of Russ and the SW. Why? Because of their instinctive behaviour, which they came to on their own accord, not due to the influence of another Chapter.

 

 

Ferrata, I have to disagree with you on your point. We don't only get our looks from our genetic parents. We also get a lot of genetic traits, like resistance or weakness to certain diseases or illnesses, an increasedly likehood of developing certain physical or mental disabilities. Since so much of our behaviour is governed by the levels and balances (or imbalances) of certain chemicals in our brain, our parent's genetic heritage can influence us towards certain types of behaviour. While a child's environment does obviously account for a great deal of their adult personality, much of it is shaped for them at birth. IQ levels aren't a matter of environment, they're largely set during gestation.

 

So, if we include into that mix the increasing rate of even latent pyschic development among humanity, plus the powerful changes wrought upon a Space Marine during initiation and the (sometimes incredibly powerful) genetic memory of the Primarch who's geneseed they recieve, it's almost guaranteed that, outside of extreme and consistent environmental influences, a Successor Chapter is going to share some characteristics with their Primarch. To use your example, the Raven Guard Successor Chapter trained by the Raven Guard will most likely adapt perfectly to the doctrine, while the IF-trained Chapter will likely have some doctrinal and philosophical ties to the IF, I'm sure that such a Chapter would have a higher proportion of Marines excelling in mobile combat, and a marked preferance for tactics like ambush and guerrila warfare. They might do it with tanks and big guns, rather than jetpacks and chainswords, but those tendancies would still shine right through, completely unconsciously on the part of the Raven Guard-descendants.

 

Another good example might be the 13th Company Space Wolves. Seperated from Primarch and homeworld for ten thousand years, without contact with their kin and a hideously hostile environment, and they still maintain the doctrines and practices of their Primarch. Surely, if there hadn't been something powerful and instinctual, they would have adapted more significantly to their environment, but they didn't.

[Brother Sergeant Alasseo]

I think a lot of the chapter's deepest character traits come from a set of genetic memories inherited from their primarch, but the majority of their collective personality is moulded by their experiences, and the experiences of the "foster" chapter which was used to train them.

 

To use the example currently being bandied about at the minute: a Raven Guard successor chapter is fostered by, say, the Wolves (for an extreme example).

Their mentors, the wolves, will have inherited strong pack instincts from Russ, and will encourage a sort of boistrous cameraderie among the young marines. However, the genetic memories (lets use the term "genomeme" to save time later) shared by the rest of the chapter are more solitary in nature, with a tendency to introspection and stealth.

This conflict could potentially be catastrophic for a fledgling chapter. on the one hand, the Corax genomeme will urge caution in preparation for a deadly strike, preferably in ambuscade, but the meme inherited from their lupine mentors will counsel them to attack, hounding the enemy until he is broken and defeated.

 

I believe it is the stress between genomeme and learned doctrine that forges the collective personality of a chapter. It is probable that the resulting synthesis contain strong genomimetic elements (unless; as I suspect is the case with the Guilliman genomeme; there has been no great stress upon their primarch, giving rise to a recessive genomeme): for example, a bearer of the dorn geneseed would most likely be stubborn, prideful, and probably highly concerned with the dictates of honour. Aside from such deep-seated characteristics, much of the fledgling chapter's persona will be determined by the teachings of those that fostered them.

 

However, it is entirely possible that a single event could cause significant changes in the personality of the chapter, altering its philosphies until they become almost unrecognisable (idealogically speaking) as having descended from their parent chapter (an example would be my Knights of Kudra). Such an event is particularly likely to happen if there is conflict between genomeme and the philosophy taught to them by their foster-parent chapter, as their hearts tell them one thing, and their head another. This almost Kantian duality is known to create powerful issue within the psyche of the subject, and will certainly make the subject more susceptible to persona-altering events (and indeed may even trigger one).

[Iron Hunter]

Heres my bit for this arguement.

 

Firstly looking at 'real life'.

 

Take two serial killers for instance.One kills because years of abuse have twisted his mind to the point he snaps and kills. The other had a perfect upbringing and for some reason still ended up becoming a killer. In the first case environment was the reason, in the second it was purely genetics.Same result, different path. Also you can have someone who takes years of abuse and just becomes more quiet and reclusive.They've been in the same enviroment as the first killer but turn out different.Again genes.

 

The point of that was to show that it really can be geneseed or environment which has the biggest effect on a chapter.Environment will always have an impact (that cannot be escaped) but its up to the DIY'er as to how much of an impact the environment has on the chapter and how much the geneseed plays a part in the chapter aswell.

[Takeda-style]

I love this debate, nice work guys :blush: . To bad I don't have to time to really get into it.

 

Just a quick note for the discussing parties: "Aloof" chapters (those that do not contact the people they recruit from directly) still retain traditions and customs of those people as marines. Marines generally do not forget their upbringing, and instead take a lot of what they learn as a human into the chapter.

 

Just something I think that might help the conversation, later all!

[AnimeFreak40K]

very interesting discussion going on here...

 

i have read over whats been posted and though i can see the perspectives laid out, i cant agree fully with any one of them. there are some things that i dont think were touched on at all, that do and will hold a significant hand in how a new Marine Chapter will develop.

 

-Genetics from the Primarch: this has been touched on in already with the possiblity of having Psychic imprints of the Primarchs memories and experiences being passed on to the new marines. one piece of fluff that actually bolsters this argument is during the creation of a Marine, there is a bit of Hypno-Therepy that is given to the recruits. this basicly instills into them the 'memories' in their gene-seed. this basicly gives them 'free experiance' because they have the skills, fighting and combat experience grafted into their minds thats been developed and honed for thousands of years. so basicly you end up having a guy who just got his Helmet being very skilled in combat training without having to spend all of that time developing it. sure theres room to grow skill and experience wise, but not much.

-Genetics from the Stock: this was touched on a little...but this was mostly by those mentioning about interacting with the people and carrying on their traditions. but what was not mentioned was the stocks own genetics themselves. granted, the Primarch/Marine genetics will eclipse over what the world has given the Stock, but some things you wont be able to deny even with this. a world will develop certain attributes, tendancies and ways of doing things in a person. hell, even just different parts of a planet will do that (somone whos entire family was in the inner city would still have that 'inner city' metality many generations down the road even if they moved into the deep country for example). so i feel that the world/territory will have just as much to do with the shaping of someone as their traditions as well.

-Stock Homeworld(s): this also was touched on a bit, basicly the world and the traditions of its people could or would help shape the devoping Marine Chapter. a chapter thats used to moving stealthly through forrests (due to the homeworld) being used as the basis for a chapter that ended up on a planet with few large trees and largly flat, would find that their tactics and methods would have to change. that means that these stealthy trainers and genestock would have to adapt to manuvering at night or lots of camoflage...or theyd have to go with transports (speeders, bikes, rhinos, etc) or even extreme range/seige (nothing to block LOS, so we can hit ANYTHING we point our guns at).

 

there are other things that influence the way a devloping Chapter would adapt themselves to different methodology than their parent Primarch...for example one from the White Scars stock who is used to using bikes, speeders, etc. takes a crushing defeat or even a long series of losses (because such vehicles are fast, but fragile)...they may rewrite their war doctrine that may make less use of bikes and speeders (they dont work, so we wont use them) and instead go for tanks (not as fast, but faster than on foot, and a lot harder).

 

someone brought up the Mortifactors, who are basicly 'Death Obsessed heathunters) being vaslty different from the Ultramarines. some reasons that this is the case is the matter of tradition of the recruting world where the stock is obsessed with death and hunts heads, but also that could be such a strong way of life for the stock that it could be ingraned into them geneticly as well. a dark, grim world would create that in a people, not to mention the fact that it could also be hard to live on just to to fauna/flora and terrain as well. all of these things must be taken into account (at least) for one to see where a Chapter will go after its been newly founded.

 

the Shadows Angelus, for example are a 13th Founding Dark Angels Chapter. they are just as secretive as the Dark Angels but they have learned that knowledge is a powerful weapon...especially knowledge in Technology. they suffered a crushing loss against Chaos that cost them their homeworld. after going after that particular force for revenge, they were all but destroyed. they had to alter their method of combat to be able to manuver their heavy weapons into place and relying on superior technology to make up for their lack of numbers. they isolate themselves because they have no world to call their own and know that the secrets of technology (where and how they unlocked those secrets are daming alone) cannot just be arbitarily handed out and must be guarded. in the end, their mindset is similar to that of the Dark Angels (stubborn, taciturn and secretive) but for different reasons than their parent Chapter.

[Brother Exar, 1st Co Dreadnought]

Personally I do not see why they coudln't make a female Space Marine by blasting the Y chromosomes out of the gene-seed before implanting it in her. But that's just me, and let's not resurrect that thread here.

 

As for the nature vs. nurture, I don't think either could ever be entirely true. Sure, a Blood Angel successor chapter will always Black Rage and suffer the Curse of Sanguinius, but that's not to say they won't, for example, have the trait "Preferred Enemy: Orks" if their homeworld was near the Maelstrom because they were founded to hold back Ork incursions. If that was the case most of their initial recruits would be Waaagh sirvivors. The first generation of the Chapter would have joined the Astartes after watching Orks kill their families and neighbors, and burn their hometowns, and would pass on a lot of anti-Ork dogma, giving the Chapter the trait I mentioned.

 

While they would have parts of the "nature" of the parent chapter, they would still be subject to "nurture."

 

I think it all comes down to this: your "nature" determines how you respond to "nurturing".

[Ryjak]

In reguards to nature and nurture, you can pretty much go anyway you want for DIY chapter. If you want your chapter to share the traits and personality of its primarch, go for it! If not, no big deal; just flesh out their creation and training, and perhaps through in some significan events that encourage the behaviour you want.

 

I wanted to go a bit off topic with something I've always thought. Under normal circumstances, when a Neophyte is inducted into an existing chapter, he gets his geneseed from one of the Chapter's fallen marines. It's possible that certain things might also be passed along to the new marine this way as well. Definately not as strong as the Primarch's genetic imprint, but probably enough there for some creative writing.

[Aurelius Rex]

I believe that this idea was raised for a DIY chapter recently. IIRC they used Sanguinius geneseed, as that already has an element of 'geneseed memory' and as they got older the past life memories became stronger, to the point where Schizophrenia or 'posession' could occur.

 

This was a very extreme version of what you were suggesting. A milder form might be possible via the marine implant where they eat something and pick up memories / experience from it, like when the Imperial Fists scouts ate the brains of a warlord class titan crew and 'learned' how to pilot it themselves briefly. :) :)

 

Sorry not to credit the person who posted this idea, but searchy may help find it. :)

[Spinsane]

I too am of the opinion that any new chapter would be assigned a cadre of marines of common heritage. That is, if the High Lords chose to implant Guilliman geneseed in a bunch of kids to create a new chapter, then the new cadre of officers will most probably come from Guilliman 'seed too. Why? Well, once those officers meet their ends ( as they will innevitably do ) and the chapter harvests their geneseed, suddently mixing up the chapter's genepool is, I think, a bad idea...

[AnimeFreak40K]

ill have to agree with you on that as well...however, that would not change the fact that one chapter may have totally different traits and combat styling and preferances even if they did come from the same Primarch

[Einsatz]

I would like to say, there are a great many chapters that do not know thier founding, let alone thier primarch. Some have the genes of the ultramarines while the temperment of the black templars. This is especially the case in DIY chapters. The fluff is made to be open ended in almost all respects.

 

I posted on this in another thread. I am building a chapter that was originally a crusade army. (around 8th founding era) I supposed that the original members of the chapter were from seperate chapters within the imperium. Over the course of centuries (without contact with the imperium), they developed different traits. I understand that it has holes. A BA or SW could fall to the defects in the gene seed, or they could have died in battle prior to.

 

I know have a chapter that is without gene-seed and when a marine dies, a new marine is created and given the same "name" when he becomes a marine. In effect the crusade continues with the same marines.

 

I think the genes of the primarch predispose marines to certain traits, while experiences and doctrine will enforce chapter dogma. (Does that make sense?)

[schoon]

For fear of simply adding a "me too" post, I'll distill my opinion on the subject, which appears to mostly follow the consensus, into the simple statement:

 

The more extreme/divergent a Chapter's progenitor geneseed, the more it will affect the Chapter; the more extreme/unusual a Chapter's homeworld, the more it will affect the Chapter.

 

In other words, nature and/or nurture ebb and flow according to their respective "power" in any given case.

[angelspast]

Now this makes for a good read ^_^

 

I'm inclined towards the Middle ground, leaning towards nature. With the exception of the blood angels perhaps, who are uniquely linked to their primarch.

 

For the most part genetics and experience play an equal role on a chapter. Although each chapter will to a degree, be genetically disposed towards the method of it's primarch's geneseed. The more extreme the divergence of the primarch, the more likely it will be expressed in the new chapter. Geneseed is a tangible link to the primarch, and it's often quite clear what primarch's geenseed has been used in the creation of a chapter.

 

On the otherside it will also vary depending on how their founded. I've always thought that a new chapter is initially trained from a core of experienced marines from an established chapter. The 'parent' chapter training the new one and fufilling command roles. Eventually the new chapter will gain experience, new commanders will be groomed, and the parent chapter will step back and see how they fair. After some time the new chapter will become independent body with close ties to the parent chapter :tu: One would expect that if a chapter founded from IF geneseed was trained by ultramarines they would be codex, although perhaps a touch headstrong/stubborn. Then there's the reverse with the mortifactors being of ultramarine stock, and being pretty far from codex....

 

So I think it can really go either way, with a little emphasis on geneseed 'memory'...

 

I won't touch the whole "female" marines/cloning stuff, been there survived those flame wars :(

 

I believe that this idea was raised for a DIY chapter recently. IIRC they used Sanguinius geneseed, as that already has an element of 'geneseed memory' and as they got older the past life memories became stronger, to the point where Schizophrenia or 'posession' could occur.

 

I remember that thread, it was a neat idea http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/forums/...topic=73909&hl=