Spleenex

I sadly don't recall the name of it, but I have read a set of sci-fi minis rules where pretty much everything was always in range aside from maybe pistols, grenades, etc., and the figure scale was much closer to the ground scale. Which is pretty realistic, considering that most real-life small arms combat takes place well within the theoretical max effective range of the weapons used. However, that game had pretty in-depth cover, suppression, and psychology rules. So it is possible to do things that way, but the game has to be built from the ground up to accommodate it, which 40K obviously is not.

Ahh. I somehow totally missed that you had upgraded the chappie to Master of Sanctity! Using both shooting litanies in one turn could be nasty. Carry on! ;) I'd actually love to hear how the chappie works as a more shooting-oriented character. Great thing about stuff like litanies and traits is that they don't have to be modeled, so you can always swap them between games. Cheers!

Hello, and welcome to the hobby and the B&C! Overall, I think the list looks like a solid all-rounder to me. You've got some close combat punch and probably more than enough mobile anti-armor for a game this size between the dread and the inceptors. It's actually pretty similar to my 1000-point list that I've had some success with. A couple of things you may want to consider, though: Unless something has changed, I believe the Infiltrators can only take the helix OR the comms array, not both. Which is a bummer, but does free up some points. I would seriously consider giving the assault Intercessor sarge a thunderhammer or at least some other special close combat weapon, even if it comes at the expense of the plasma pistol. The pistol is good, but this is a specialist unit, and as a rule its generally more efficient to lean into a unit's strengths (in this case, punching things), than to mitigate their weaknesses (shooting things). Besides, there aren't a lot of opportunities to put special CC weapons in your list, so you should take them when you find them. I know you prefer shooting, but you actually have a pretty balanced list. Your Chaplain can be really effective in close combat, so I'd consider dropping one of the selected litanies and replacing it with a combat-oriented one. Maybe Mantra of Strength to give him a boost in combat. Besides, Recitation of Focus and Catechism of Fire are basically mathematically equivalent, and you can only use one per turn anyway, so you may get more mileage from casting a wider net there. Anyway, hope that helps. as with most things in this game, it's really all a matter of taste, and I'm not a super experienced player myself, so grain of salt and all that. Looking forward to hearing how the list plays. Cheers!

I tried to make a mostly Phobos list work (all theoryhammer, mind you - not played in ages for obvious reasons), but as others have said, I had a hard time getting sufficient damage output either at range or up close. Most of the Phobos units are really there to provide special abilities rather than raw damage output. Infiltrators, for example, are really great troops - they can lock down huge portions of the board from deepstrike, they can be deployed on/near midfield objectives, and they allow you to spread out with their ability to use (Phobos) character auras if you take the comms array wargear. But they need some additional backbone in terms of output, as they have no weapon options, and their basic gun is essentially just a slightly upgraded standard bolter. This is compounded by the fact that if you take mainly/all Phobos troops, you're pushed pretty strongly towards Phobos commanders/characters, as many of their abilities are keyed specifically to Phobos troops, but these characters again lack the punch of other options. What I ended up doing was a hybrid list. My 1000-point list has a Phobos Lt. as warlord, a couple units of infiltrators, a unit of Intercessors with fist, 2x MM attack buggies, an Invictor warsuit, inceptors, and a unit of eliminators, with the option to put a Chaplain or Apothecary in with the Intercessors if I ditch one of the ATVs. Still maintains a lot of the speed and flexibility of a Phobos list, but with much more damage output. A 100% Phobos list might be a lot more viable at the 500-point level where your opponent is less likely to have vehicles or heavy troops. in any case, it's a really cool concept for a list, and if your main goal is being thematic and having fun, I'd say go for it!

This is my concern, as well - I just don't see any design space for CC JP Primaris. At least not without making one of the other stabby units obsolete, or at least directly competing with them. I had the thought that maybe an "assault support" JP unit like Inceptors with flamers might work. Steps on the toes of Aggressors a bit, but if all they have are flamers they're missing the former's CC punch. Could provide reactive overwatch or support a unit about to charge. Such a unit would probably have to extortionately expensive, though.

I like the idea of adding a "Tank" keyword to trigger a special rule. Could even use the "Vehicle" keyword. But rolling saves on 2D6 is probably a non-starter, as it has a completely different probability distribution: a 3+ save on 2D6 has a 97% success rate (vs. 83% on a D12 roll). And its not a linear distribution. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of anything with the "Vehicle" keyword just ignoring the first point of damage from any single attack. That way a Land Raider can't get plinked to death by lasguns or something.

I'm not even sure a point increase would be necessary. As it stands now, most tanks (for SM, anyway) are far too expensive for what they do. Buffing their toughness while keeping the same price point might actually get people to take them.

I think the asymmetric objectives is the way to go. Perhaps you can award additional campaign victory points for completing your main objective earlier? In any case, if I were to run a campaign like this, I think i would structure it so that one team meeting their strategic objectives does not necessarily trigger the endgame. Perhaps you set a certain number of campaign turns or something as the end. That way, if a player/team does achieve their primary objective early, they still have to hold on to and consolidate their gains while trying to prevent others from achieving their objectives. Looking forward to hearing what you land on.

Adrian Tchaikovsky's children of Time went a long way towards curing my arachnophobia. I read it on ADB's recommendation. He has something coming out for BL soon and I'm looking forward to it. I'm reading "Children of Time" right now. Really good book! I'll make sure to look for the BL title. It would be AMAZING if they made a unit based on this little thing. Some sort of war engine or whatnot.

Welcome! I think you'll find this to be a very helpful and supportive community. What's your favorite thing about the hobby so far?

It's taken about 3-4 weeks to get most of my orders recently. The one time I had a delivery go AWOL (tracking said it had been delivered when it hadn't), I called customer service and it was resolved in a couple of days. Just keep in mind that every link in the supply chain -- from sourcing raw materials, to production, to stocking, to shipping -- are all affected by COVID-related delays. In the "before-times", 1-2 weeks was a normal shipping time for me. We'll get back there eventually. In the meantime, as others have said, just watch your email and don't be afraid to reach out to customer support if you think something has gone wrong.

That was fantastic. I like the sound they used for the bolter, too. Sounds appropriately chunky and menacing.

Thanks so much for the feedback! That's too bad to hear about the Invictus, considering I have one in the mail, lol! I was under the impression that it recently got a bit of a buff? I'll give it a shot and report back how it goes in this list. I will definitely be magnetizing the main weapon, though. Re: going all Phobos -- I was a bit concerned about the lack of firepower, and was originally planning on including a squad of standard Intercessors. However, I thought that at this lower point level it made more sense to double down on the Phobos troops and HQ to maximize their respective special abilities. Thoughts? I do already have some Eliminators, because as you say, they're just darn good. I do plan to do another detachment at some point focused more on Intercessors etc., so I will definitely consider a Redemptor for that. Dreadnaught issues aside, does anyone have some insight into my other questions, especially whether I have enough boots, and the HQ makeup? Thanks again!

Greetings all! Getting back into the hobby after a long hiatus and decided to finally order up some minis and give it a go. I decided to start with a small, mostly Phobos force, as the playstyle is attractive to me -- I like focusing on maneuver, feints, etc. My chapter, The Illuminators, is a UM successor, but I'm not sure if I want to just CTRL+C their tactics or build my own. Any advice on this would be appreciated. The basic plan for this force is fairly straightforward: Pre-game: pick progressive, objective-based secondary objectives like "Raise the Banners" and "Domination" Deployment: 1) Drop one Infiltrator squad each on midfield objectives. 2) Forward-deploy Invictor aggressively to threaten screened characters or heavy-hitting units. 3) Put captain with Eliminators so they can take advantage of his aura, preferably on home objective if lines of sight are okay. 4) Use "Rapid Deployment" to shift Invictor if I lose first turn, and shift third infiltrator squad to threatened objective. During game: 1) Use Invictor and Invaders to harass enemy backfield and try to take out anything scary early. 2) Infiltrators camp on objectives while Eliminators deal with characters or heavy infantry units. 3) Basic strategy is to concede 1 out of the four objectives and double down on holding the three grabbed early. 4) Libby just makes a nuisance of himself by using obscuration to make camping infiltrators un-targetable (assuming Invaders and Invictor are still forward deployed being annoying) and/or using "Temporal Tunnel" (?) to shift forces to objectives as needed. Overall, I think I like the synergies of this list, but would love some feedback, specifically:Do I have enough bodies? Is my almost complete lack of CC an issue at this points level? Are there strategems or abilities that I'm overlooking? How would you expand this list to 1500? Do I have enough AT for 1000 pts.? Too much? Should I drop the libby and get a Phobos Lt. for second HQ? Would give all my troops rerolls on 1s to hit AND wound. Would also free up 20 points to give remaining 2 Infil. units Helix Gauntlets to improve resilience. Thanks all! Illuminators 1000 Vanguard Battalion Det. Adeptus Astartes - Incursion - Eternal War ( 3CP - 1000PT - 0PT ) Adeptus Astartes Battalion Detachment ( 3CP - 1000PT ) HQ Captain in Phobos Armour (95) Librarian in Phobos Armour (100) TROOPS Infiltrator Squad (135) 1x Infiltrator: Infiltrator comms array 1x Infiltrator: Helix gauntlet 1x Infiltrator Sergeant 2x Infiltrator Infiltrator Squad (125) 1x Infiltrator: Infiltrator comms array 1x Infiltrator Sergeant 3x Infiltrator Infiltrator Squad (125) 1x Infiltrator: Infiltrator comms array 1x Infiltrator Sergeant 3x Infiltrator ELITES Invictor Tactical Warsuit (160): Incendium Cannon FAST ATTACK Invader ATV Squad (85): Multi-melta Invader ATV Squad (85): Multi-melta HEAVY SUPPORT Eliminator Squad (90) 1x Eliminator Sergeant 2x Eliminator Total Command Points: 3/6 Reinforcement Points: 0 Total Points: 1000/1000

As per the main rules, if the hole of the blast template is over the base of the target after scatter, it causes two hits instead of one. It's an *incredibly* impactful rule, so anything you can do to reduce scatter or improve hit chance on a blast weapon is almost always worth the points/CP, especially if you plan on taking a lot of them.