The Neverborn

This is the other issue armies like Daemons have, exacerbated by the flight rules. Too little terrain and you're centre peace models are basically on display to 99% of the opponent's shooting 99% of the time. A Bloodthirster is a good example with it's huge wingspan and slightly lopsided pose, it can be difficult to block LOS. Too Much terrain and yeah you can hide him but you can't move him that much as he needs to negotiate round terrain, a Great unclean one is going to have an even harder job due to it's bigger base. If terrain is very dense you can even get into issues deep striking. I am hoping that GW produce maps and possible terrain "tiles" eventually, as i feel it would allow them to balance the cost of the unit with the practical considerations. Any over or under sites can the be sorted out in post in updates.

Yes I've seen these. And I've referenced them. There doesn't seem to be a lot of appetite for them in the games I've played in as they are not in the rulebook or the deck of cards you get with an expansion. - Apologies if that sounds silly but its the way it is....

I've looked through the forums and I'm not sure where to post this. If I've chosen the wrong one would a kind admin move it please :) From about 7th ed onwards I've tended to prefer Melee armies, currently Orks, previously Deamons. With a melee army it's very difficult to do much when you're not in Melee and I've been shot off the board in the 1st or 2nd turn. Having looked at grand tournament games I've noted they seem to play with a lot more terrain than is typical in my games. By a lot i mean 1.5x to 3x of LOS blocking terrain. I've taken advice from better players than myself on my getting shot off the board in turn 1 or 2 problem, one of the things that is common is hide your units better, pick your moment, position yourself to reduce incoming fire. The issue I have is this is quite hard to execute when there's not enough terrain on the board to hide maybe more than 1 unit, especially if you're using units with a large footprint. I've attempted to discuss this with my opponents before games, with very little success, especially if they play gun lines. I don't think they are "cheating" or trying to set favourable set up for themselves. I genuinely think they are maintaining what they perceive as the correct amount based on what they have done in the past. I know I'm not totally alone, having discussed this with other players who've noted the same dynamic. As opposed to my online persona, in real life I've got little desire to argue with someone for more than a minute or so. I'm more willing to accept that I'm going to get shot off the table turn 1/2 than spend time negotiating the correct amount of terrain as, among other issues, I feel it sets a combative vibe to the game. I'm somewhat hoping that in a future edition Prescribed Terrain Maps for each mission are provided which may solve my problem. Any hope in that? Am i wrong?

Hey you want to use them as “terminators” it’s your game/list knock yourself out. I also remembered you can deepstrike mega nobz just without the inv save with a character. Just need a Mek or warboss.

You're entitled to yours, but I'm still going with Meganobz. Here's why Killa Kans are Vehicles, so there's a lot of interactions that are either vehicle or infantry specific which they don't share with terminators. Nobz and Terminators can attached a character which in later editions changes the interactions available and body guard a character. Nobz don't have a Inv save, at least for 4 out of 5 terns as you've already identified but they can access an invulnerable save via a Big Mek, though it is for shooting only. In terms of lore Killa Kans are (usually) unwilling grotz that are surgically wired into a machine for life. This puts them more closely resembling a dreadnought than a terminator. This is also reflected in their keywords.

I hit the wall. 60 Models in I'm past the Halfway point. But these last 10 Snagga Boyz was a bit of a slog. I've been doing the "core" units first as I want the last units I do to be the best painted, and more experience painting should equal a better paint job. I've also done these in "lots", 10 Boyz, 10 Beast Snaggas then back to 10 Boyz and so on. I'm not into the more interesting models, but also harder to paint models. Flash gitz and Beast boss look especially hard, and Trukks look awkward. Especially as I'm buying 2nd hand and the models are in different states of assembly. I've also noted that the ferrous sheets i bought back in 2019 are being sold in 2024 with a much weaker pull, so I may need to use a stronger magnet. Finally I bought out the UKs market of Nerortie Green, moot green is a bit too "sickly" for me. Next up 5 Nobz!

P3 Paints! So I didn't know this but privateer press stopped making P3 paints at a point early this year, they are due back via a Kickstarter but who knows when they will be available in the UK. So I was left with 2 options, either buy up the rest of the UK market of Nercotie Green (which is 3 pots) or search for an alternative. I opted to balance my last Necrotie green pot on it's head to finish these, but GW's moot green is claimed to me almost the same, and I happen to have a pot 1/3 full. So I'll be trying that. I was going to paint my Nobz but as i'm using a new paint i'm going for my last squad of Beast Snaggas. I'm 51 models, half way there - living on a prayer Next up last 10 beast Snaggas

There were some "unfortunate" choices in 2nd edition, Second edition Strom Boyz are also... problematic

The Ork "Language" we hear as customers in the animations/cutscenes is in heavily exaggerated cockney English, this is presented that way for our benefit to add a sense of levity. Orks in-universe speak very differently. To imperial citizens it sounds like a collection of Barks and Grunts which is how it's described in prophet of Waaagh . I think I would be correct in saying cross species dialogue is always in conducted in either Low-Imperial gothic or the non-orks language, with a handful of named exceptions; Ghazghkull and Nazdreg who can speak high gothic if IIRC. What i find interesting is this implies that Orks are more easily able to learn non-ork languages than non-orks can learn there's. But they don't always get the pronunciation correct. "Nobz" is actually the Ork for "Nobles", that is to say an Ork attempting to say "Nobles" or the equivalent in Imperial Gothic will say "Nobz". This occurs when they are speaking to imitate human speech, based on what they see as a like-for-like. The true Ork for "Nobz" in their own language would sound like a dog barking.

You probably wouldn't "write" anything. Ork's use Oral storytelling to retain their history, when they bother. If you can gain access to older GW material online you can find Ork glyphs. Even if they do, Orks with very few exceptions, don't attempt to build interpersonal relationships, they also tend not to really "listen" to what each other say, so the flow would be also very disjointed .

10 More beast Snagga Boyz done, that's 40 Greenskins done and I'm 40% of the way through my (and formally) others pile(s) of plastic shame. I've opted to keep the second Beast Boss, leaving me fairly HQ stacked. On top of the 2 Beast bosses I have: 4 War bosses including 1 mega and 3 regular but I have no double sculps, which is nice. I can see there may be times where I may want to run all 3 regular war bosses as I have 10 Nobz now. I also got a some squig herds from AOS (again second hand - add £17) So i can but some squigs here and there and add one to each of the two warboss kits that don't have them on the sculpt but do have them in the rules. Also picked up a codex for £22 posted with an unused code! Next up 10 Grots !

Been watching some of the Animations on WH+ the Orks don't appear to be as physically strong as I expected. It looks like men and women 1/3 their size parry blows quite regularly. I can accept that in a fight technique, timing and skill help a lot. But all the technique and timing won't help someone if they are fighting someone or something powerful enough, for example an adult raging grizzly bear. Heck given 10 metre or less engagement range a grizzly bear vs current day special forces with a standard side arm. I'm betting grizzly. So here's my question and if you can back it up with written quoted lore you get rep from me! How does the strength of : PDF, Cadian Guardsperson , Commissar, Kasrkin Compare to Ork, Nob, Warboss, Warlord And how do any of them compare to a large raging grizzy bear in raw strength.

However you want. I find that darker colours look more "realistic" where as brighter colours are more eye catching on the table top. Starting with white typically makes the model brighter, black will make it darker. I've got a blog in my signature where I go through my personal method with results.

Ork's haven't been in a starter set as the antagonists of Space Marines for sometime. I think they are due to a go sometime soon. Typically there's some new models in those So think you'll get : 1)A couple squads of Basic Infantry - Boyz are new and already push to fit so they slide right in. 2)A Leader - A Warboss that's a no brainer, so a new push to fit one 3)Something Big - Either a reimaged Deff Dread or something that is not currently in the Codex 4)Something that is elite - I'd go with a new Nobz unit to with the updated boyz 5)(In the "Premium" edition) A Single lone unit maybe a new Weird Boy I think I covered the categories GW goes for

10 More boyz done. I managed to do something rare. I had to throw away a paint pot as i'd used all the paint in it! I think this is the first time I've ever done that. Celestial Grey, you served me well for a number of years. You have been replaced, but you will always be my first. Something I've noticed. Orks are an ideal 3rd, 4th or later army. This is due to their lack of uniform colours. Got a pot of evil suns red? - Red shirt it is (he'll die soon anyway), bestial brown - brown trousers, ultramarine blue - he's in denim jeans, flayed one flesh - wash it with a shade and you've got a hide made garment. And I've got an entire shoe box to work through. I think the skin should be the same colour, even though mine aren't. And that a "Klan" colour should be present on all the models, mine is flash gitz yellow and it's soon to be joining the aforementioned celestial grey. I've noticed that my painting is improving, you can see from 2 feet away which are the first 10 boyz (see above) and the second painted with 20 models worth of practice(below). And they are getting greener! I'm not really bothering to do much highlighting or blending for anything other than the skin. The war bosses/characters will be done last will have full blending. After my skills have been practiced they will be the final boss (no pun intended) testing my skills learnt so far. Next second set of 10 Snaggas!

I was going to write a lengthy response, but I don't feel we are moving to any degree of cohesion. But in summary, some of you points I agree or disagree with. Others are on a middle ground and I either agree or disagree with "no's" with a "but", or "yes", with an "if".

I feel this is different to using an over watch stratagem (or similar ) as it’s a single interaction. You do this I do that. This above is when I do this you will do that, so I’ll do that, so you’ll do that, so I’ll do this, so you’ll do that. This is all for a single interaction for mostly “mundane” abilities for all armies plus one “special ability”. There will be many many others which players at this level will have to keep in mind as a result of the reactive abilities added in 8th onwards. Though if I recall correctly you could over watch and possibly heroically intervene in 7th. In terms of complexity. In 3rd and 4th edition I could recall from memory maybe 75% or more of the rules/stat lines special rules from almost all codexs in the game and including weapon profiles and legal loadouts . This at the time was probably only a “high average” level of recall. Maybe you’re an especially intelligent person who can do this in the current year, congratulations if so. I can hand on heart say you're doing better than anyone I know, ask here if anyone else can if so. in terms of gotcha moments individual experience may vary but in the half dozen or so games I’ve played in 10th I’d say there was a gotcha moment in around half of them. Individual players have their own etiquette. Maybe you’re lucky enough to not experience this, if you did I think you’d reflect very differently. These gotcha moments seemed to start in 8th edition with a reactive phase added, stratagems (in earlier additions some units had once per game abilities). While I'm in full Grognard. Armies have gotten a lot bigger overtime in 3rd/4th edition i could carry my entire collection, not army, in a single citadel brief case style carry case with room for paints and codex and dice! I'll have a pop at it from my 20 year old memory 1 farseer, strength 3 but has singing spear, which triples is strength in combat, and always wounds on 2+ can be thrown 18" but has no ap he has WS and BS 5, toughness 3, leadership 10 and 4+ invulnerable armour save, initiative 5 and Ghosthelm which allows his to ignore perils of the warp on a 2+ (and deamons half WS in combat with him) he has one psychic power is guide which has a range of 12" and allows that unit (if a test is passed the re-roll missed shooting) - he could also have a jet bike (mine didn't) That's just one but it there's just a lot more going on in the game now, with army special rules and the like a 4 stage counter of counter is just the icing at this point No you should not just have to sand there any get face punched by their hard hitting unit! That's equally absurd! You would do other things about it, some you've already identified. You'd "tar pit it" for a turn or two for example. You could still do that unless for example they can activate a doctrine or stratagem that allows them to leave combat and charge in the same phase, which you'll need to ask him about, has he got the command points to do so if so, is he then stuck using that with an opportunity cost for the rest of the phase and so on and so on. The questions and what if's this and that, can a rule be changed or bent and so on, if so what are stipulations costs and so on are the complexity i'm thinking about. Though i'd agree that the game is less complex in that the stat sheets shows a hits on x+ rather than a comparison chart. Now I'm boring myself and probably everyone else too. End wall of text!

A dead brush As pappa Nurgle teaches us death, decay and entropy is a constant, no matter how permeant something may seem. After 24 painted models, my Army painter regiment brush is now done. They retail between £6 and £7 and I used it for around 85% of each model so I feel that just about an okay length of service. But as Gork and Mork teaches us, be cunning and brutal. The former workhorse brush will now be relegated to basing block colours and it's exact replacement will pick up the burden.

Exactly this. You’ve done a better job of explaining “this level of play” than I have. It feels like “competitive play” is increasingly prevalent and involves various ways of using loop holes and technicalities to create bizarre outcomes. After this is made available on forums or YouTube it becomes the way the game is played

Good Question. To answer your question as best i can. I'm a roll dice stuff goes boom player. Single interactions that involve 3,4,5 steps to achieve an outcome isn't not something I'm looking to engage with. I'd probably just let my opponent do whatever after the counter of a counter, as I wouldn't be interested engaging with the rest of the steps. I do find the game complex in the number of "gotchas" that seem to be present, generally using stragems that break or bend the normal laws of the game.

You are correct you don’t have to consolidate into the charging unit in the example. I’m not sure which counter of a counter of a counter and so on it helps if any. personally I find this level of play not too my liking.

The situation It's your turn You intend to charge your opponent's very hard hitting melee unit Your opponents very hard hitting melee unit has the fights first ability The problem If you charge your opponent's hard hitting melee unit, both units have fights first (there's naturally, yours is due to charging), but the inactive player (them) has priority so will go first and destroy your charging unit The counter Assuming the opponent has a "chaf" unit within a few inches of their first first unit You can charge that unit instead the rules state you have to move into base to base (if possible) With some cleaver positioning you can block most of your squad off, so most of the models can not get into base to base with the chaf unit due to it's self The other models can move whatever you roll - so you can move them to 1.1" of the fights first melee squad. At the start of the fight phase your opponent fights first squad can't active as it's not in engagement range of anything You active your squad and pile in to the fights first squad, as activation has already happened they will need to wait until your squad resolves their attacks killing or destroying the fights first squad. The counter of the counter The fights first squad heroically intervenes when you end 1.1" inches away It now is in engagement range at the start of the fight phase As the inactive player, they activate first due to their fights first The counter of the counter of the counter Before you charge your melee unit in Charge the fights first unit with a chaf unit of your own As the fights first unit as now in engagement rage, it can't use the heroic intervention stratagem the fights first unit (having fought) must consolidate into the nearest enemy unit (you're 1.1" away so that will be your unit) You activate and prioritise the fights first unit (there's a whole bunch of tedious positioning shenanigans at this point!) But you make sure they can't move away from your melee unit or into it when they activate, or if they can it's 1-2 models. The counter of the counter of the counter of the counter The opposing player sees this all coming and either uses An overwatch stratagem to destroy your chaf unit A reposition stratagem to ensure his fights first unit is more than 3" away from your assault. Ensures there's no nearby chaf unit in the first place. There might be a "counter of the counter of the counter of the counter of the counter" but i'm so past it now!

Good Evening, So i was in Ireland for a few days so the next batch took a bit longer. 10 Beast Snaggas now done. I'm getting the hang of the skin, but blending is a bit inconsistent. With an army that at 2k points could have upwards of 75 figures I'm not looking for perfection on each individual and some green skins seem to look better than others. I was also on Facebay and a chap was selling a combat patrol BNIB for £60 posted! Annoyingly I'd already bought a beast boss and the 10 snaggas shown. But the deal was too good to pass up. So I've elected to sell the beast boss only a week after buying it (I still even have the sellers box). The good news is i should lose less than £5 on it, so even with that loss £65 for a RRP £100 box is a great find. I'll have now a total of 30 beast Snaggas which is probably maxed out on those. Giving me 30 Snagga Boyz and 20 Ork Boyz as battleline/troops. I did consider keeping the Beast Noss so I can run two. I know that stacking Warbosses is a thing at the moment, However evaluating Ork unit "Tiers" from 6th through 10th, stacking HQ seems to be a "flavour of the month", a bit inconsistent in effectiveness and which are stacked, and I'm looking for a balanced list, so I'll probably get beast boss on Squigsaur and if they do a unique individual that too so if one becomes optimal i'll have one available. I am finding bargain hunting part of the fun now

First squad of 10 done, minus one bit of basing. After a bit of experimentation I've discovered a method of doing ork skin which i like. The first 10 I used a number of different methods. I found myself making the green brighter and brighter. See the dark green ork being probably the first and the other two in the close up being the last. While dark colours seem to look more "realistic" I find bright colours pop more on the table top. Of my greater Daemons, the bright green GUO gets far more love than any of the other 3. The bloodthirster is very well painted but in dark colours and gets few complements compared to any of the other three. I was at a game a few years back and my opponent, although trouncing me fairly substantially spoke at length about being a "better player". However I feel they are a number of ways of being good a 40k. I'd say having a well painted army wins more hearts than having a 90% plus win record. The point is there's more ways to be better at 40k than winning games. I feel that tournaments should have a "best painted" and "best themed" army as well as an "overall win rate" winner . I settles on a blend from Goblin Flesh washed in Biel-tan Green, to Nercotite Green to Flash Gitz Yellow using a wet brush to blend works well. Though it is a little time consuming. I've opted to challenge myself a little bit so the guns contain more than one colour, which is not something i usually do and in some cases and I even managed to do my first check pattern. 10 down. I've got around 40 to go!