Brother Ramael

Oh come on, just because we occasionally misplace one or two of your cruisers...

I think the Icarus is priced ok for 6 S7 attacks, otherwise you still have the good old Helblasters. If you think you can pull it off maybe try a gladiator, otherwise a double Kheres dreadnought could do ok for 12 S7 and a comparatively robust chassis.

Well, let's see.... Breacher Squad ( troop choice) ( Core, Primaris, Chapter xxx); 1 sergeant ( Power Sword, Breacher Shield, Heavy Bolt Pistol, frag grenades) plus 4-9 Breacher Marines ( Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol, Breacher shotgun, frag grenades). One model can swap his Shotgun for a Flamer or a Plasma Gun. Breacher Shotgun: assault 3 range 12 AP-1. Breacher Shield: it's a combat shield ( 5+ save) but if in 6" range of a objective it can deploy, halving the movement characteristic for the model but giving +1 light cover bonus to saves. (yes the name is stolen from 30k I know I know). I'm not even trying to pretend I'm good at balancing but anyway: The shotgun is a short range autobolt rifle, the short range kind of balances the extra stickiness compared to Intercessors. I was toying with the idea of having the shield +1 save in light cover/buildings moving the unit from the objective holder role to indoor skirmisher but I am unsure how much would it come to play. Quite possibly it would be best to make it max 5 models for balance reasons too.

Sadly my experience at full primaris lists is very limited, that being said if you want to go that way you seems to have covered the bases. I'd just say a couple of things: imho primaris chaps suffer greatly from not having IC, so if possible at all I'd try to put one on a bike or look into librarians; if you're low on DW it could be worthy to look into aggressors ( remember they shoot in melee! especially the flamer one can be nasty)and stick to tactical doctrine as much as possible.

Well, if I had to guess, this is a primaris themed list so I am not sure how much you are willing to switch with firstborn. In any case I'd say: -If you want to stick with Primaris, if you can get the points somewhere the Chappie on bike is awesome -If you don't the Interrogator Chaplain is absolutely better than the Primaris Chaplain, same stats + Inner Circle -I'd consider dropping the Bladeguard for a 5 man DW command squad, same cost, but you can give them a couple of SS for 20 points. -I'd get the points from trading the Thunderstrike ( I personally like the news speeders but I feel at 1k points they are a bit thight, while the bikes, which I am liking less and less still have the right AT kick for 40 points that you can use) for 2 MM attack bikes, leaving 20 leftover points for a Watcher in the Dark and some more DW command squad kinks Or simply switch the Thunderstrike for the bikes and the Chaplain for Ezekiel, which has a similar melee presence ( +Inner Circle!), a better armor save, psychic powers ( at 1k they can change the game) and a nice aura. Since this means the free warlord trait can be moved around I'd drop the Bladeguard, get 4 DW command termies (2 ss 1 AC 1 Watcher in the Dark), choose the sarge for Marked for Command, give him for free Rites of War and a MC Power Sword, giving you a OBSEC termie squad and your opponent an headache. Consider that, unless you want to stick full Primaris, at some point you will need to dabble in Termies and the like, so.... Edit: the Chaplain is still very nice for the MW protection aura if MW are a thing in your meta)

First of all, it depends on what your definition of strenght is. Perturabo is not a renowed duelist among Primarchs, but he basicaly carried the whole last stage of the war on his shoulders (and would have possibly won had he stayed), so is he weak? It is true that ( as Horus himself laments) the rebel Primarchs are the psychologically weakest but that's an inbuilt feature otherwise they'd have stayed loyal. Yet you get, besides Horus: -Angron, easily one of the top 3 fighters between primarchs when he's sane -Perturabo is basically the only guy that can give the.. saner, loyal Primarchs lessons on war -Fulgrim who strived for perfection in all things to the point of being one of the top duelists ever ( even if this cut its legs later on) -Lorgar, while a poorer fighter than his brothers was the absolute best at motivation and morale ( the imperial cult is basically the bastard child of his obsession) -Mortarion which while not the best in anything was quite good all around I agree that Curze is basically a nutcase, Magnus rebelled by mistake and Omegon tosses a coin every morning to decide if he's loyal or traitor for the day, but overall they were a though lot. Other than that yes, heretics sucks and long love the Empire

Allright, the MW spam is an issue definitely and in that role Laz has a role, considering the direct competitor ( the chappy) helps core units only. If you have to take him he's still IC though, so it's probabably going to be comparable to the relic shiled captain ( after all, a transhuman, 4+ 4++ is quite sturdy, I bet quite a few chapters would like to have it).

I would like to add that HB, while functional, are not the best option for Orks and even DE squads, since assault cannons and onslaught ones do a better job.

Thanks all, think I found a couple of way I could get this done

So, I am going to try and put a raven model on my RW champion but I am having trouble finding something I can use both for size and position ( perched/landing). Do anyone can help me get out of this predictement?

So, attack bikes cost 5 points more now, which means that the staple MM version coms for 60. At the cheap cheap value of 70 we have MM Land Speeders, which for 10 points have better T, more wounds and fly while losing core ( which would not be huge except we have the Talonmaster so it kind of is). If it was not for the Core factor, I'd jump in with switching them over..... what do you guys think? Edit: since we're at it, the news about Orks seems to increase the value of poor old Assault cannons and Onslaught ones... so again, LS and ATV?

Dark Talons on a good day can one shot a raider I think, what about stalkers? +1 for being still and basically 6 autocannon shots seems nice vs raiders. Reliquary of the repentant for limiting saves, Lazarus to stop the MW hemorrage, maybe flames for overwatch?

I don't think he can take the chainsword to be clear..... the worst part is that he loses Inner Circle. TBH unless you really want a bikc chap I'd stick with the IC with JP.

Tbh I think BGV are intended to be the VV already, adding JP to BGV would start a riot.

Well, the chapter tactic is subtle: besides being useful for WW, Heavy Intercessors and back campers, it's a counterattack tactic, since it works when charged; in practice it rewards holding objectives rather than taking them. For doctrines, the RW one is obviously good, while the tactical one seems underwelming, but then again it depends a lot on what are you using it with: a squad of autobolt intercessors or Aggressors can mulch a lot of deadly but fragile units while robbing them of the charge ( flamers of all kind are nasty here especially). For the Termie doctrine, it's obviously quite good especially applied to our own characters: we have basically all chars that can full reroll wounds against other characters almost all the time. I'd like to chime in on the melee performances of our HQs, I was doing some math on Drazhar, which is obviously a freaking beatstick, yet statistically it loses in combat against the much maligned Belial, even if he charges. The combination of an innate 50% chance for ignoring wounds and a full reroll on our wounds roll on top of all the SM arsenal can get scary.