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Greetings. This shall be an in-depth thread in which we put forward a modular thesis based on rigorously applied rationale and existing historical precedent married to educated supposition where no historical precedent is found. Yes, this is a wish-listing thread. I'm organizing a little get-together for my HH group, albeit we've decided to go heretical and covert the Horus Heresy legion list into a usable format for 8th edition. Everything is dandy so far; converting weapon and character stats (20 wound Spartans ) is simple, given both follow rigorous ratios when comparing their 7th edition stats to 8th edition. The hard part is figuring out the non-quantitative bits; which units get what special rules is one thing, but what is completely out of our grasp is coming up with 8th edition versions of Legiones Astartes rules. Many of the 7th edition LA rules were presented in such a creative way that a lot of times I was delighted in how they conveyed complex attributes through quite simple means, so I thought reaching out and jotting down as many ideas as possible would be a wonderful exercise in itself. How will Flawless Execution be represented without an Initiative stat? How will Edge of the Spear work with guaranteed reserves? Since I don't usually approve of home brew, I'd also like to back this up with as much peer-review as possible. Please do make sure to comment on anything you find particularly elegant or clumsy. Let's get the creative juices flowing, I am sure the FW team will be watching us, as they always do, for nuggets of inspirations Bonus Round: Rites of War, both general and legion specific. Bonus Bonus Round: Legion Unique Command Points & Abilities. Dark Angels: (jaxom) Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels) Bring Them Down: The Dark Angels excel at felling monstrous creatures and foul xenos the likes of which could not be imagined. Units with this rule gain +1 Damage when they roll a 6+ To Hit and automatically pass Morale checks when engaged with a unit with the Monster keyword. Covenant of Death: If your opponent finishes the game with more units on the table than you they recieve D3 Victory Points. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Legion of Unity: No one knows exactly what happened to the Thunder Warriors, just that they were gone and the First Legion stood in their place. Activate this before a unit makes it's attacks. The unit's attacks deal an additional point of Damage on a To Wound roll of 6. (2CP) Knights of the Order : The martial practices of the Dark Angels are informed by the millenia old traditions of Caliban. Choose a unit during the Combat phase. It improves its Weapon Skill by 1. Hexagrammaton Stratagem - The Dark Angels have an additional stratagem, based on the 'wing aura assigned to the army's Warlord character: Deathwing - (3CP) Pride of the Firstborn: Activate at any time. Your force ignores Battleshock tests of all kind for the entire battleround. Ravenwing - (3CP) No Escape: One Jetbike, Outrider, Speeder or <flyer> in your Reinforcement pool may enter the game from your opponent's table edge. Firewing - (2CP) Turbis Purgation-Rounds: One unit's ranged attacks gains 'Deflagrate' for this Battleround. Stormwing - (3CP) Breaching Counter-Tactics: Activate in-place of Overwatch; the Dark Angel unit moves into base contact and counts as having successfully completed a charge. Dreadwing -(2CP) Acid Rounds: Activate before a unit with "bolt" weapons fires; said weapons roll a D6 to decide the weapons' AP value. On a roll of a 5 or 6 the ammunition misfires; the unit makes its attacks at an AP of -4 but it not make shooting attacks at all next Battleround. Ironwing - (2CP) Ancient Animus: Pick a Vehicle; Depending on the phase in which you've activate this Stratagem, you may immediately repeat the previous action with the Vehicle. It may not be used at all next Battleround as the Vehicle's crew reset systems to regain control. Emperor's Children: Legiones Astartes (Emperor's Children) Exemplars of War: The Emperor's Children place an importance on speed and the precision of maneuver above all else in war. All units with this rule roll 2 dice and choose the highest when making an Advance. When choosing a unit to fight in close combat, an additional character with this rule may be chosen alongside a chosen unit. Martial Pride: The Legion's pride was a tangible thing, and it's officers were quick to defend it in blood. Some whispered it was more the prestige of their rank that they were so eager to guardr. All characters with this rule must perform a Heroic Intervention if they are able to. When a character with this rule falls in close combat, all units with this rule within 3" are at -1 Leadership for that Battle Round. Legion Stratagems: (1CP) Palatine Eagles: Activate when an enemy unit falls back from an Emperor's Children unit; the enemy unit immediately suffers D6 Mortal Wounds. (1CP) Exemplary Marksmanship: Select one unit and improve its Ballistic Skill by 1 for this turn. (3CP) Flawless Execution: A single unit may either Advance the full distance or charge the full distance. Rite of War: The Maru Skara Open Blade: In the first player turn, all units with the <Legion> and <Emperor's Children> keywords may declare a charge after advancing. Hidden Blade: Select 1-3 Elite/Fast Attack units. These units are not destroyed if they are still in the reinforcement pool by 3rd Battle Round, instead being destroyed if they are not deployed by the 4th Battle round. Iron Warriors: Legiones Astartes (Iron Warriors) Wrack and Ruin: Units with this rule ignore shooting casualties for the purposes of Battleshock tests. All units with this rule may use an additional grenade or melta bomb during the shooting and/or close combat phase. The Bitter End: The Legion's calling card was eternally breaking the most unassailable fortresses and unfavorable positions, as much as it was dying for little more than glorified ditch-works in holding actions that would never be noted in the histories of the Great Crusade. An Iron Warrior player always forfeits the decision to choose deployment position, but for all other purposes follows normal pre-game procedure. Warsmith: An optional upgrade for an Iron Warriors Praetor. The Warsmith must be Warlord, and awards the opponent 1 VP if the Warsmith is slain. All units within 3" of a Warsmith half the models removed as a result of a Battleshock test, rounding down. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Escalade: Use this stratagem when counting objectives scored, but before any random values are revealed. As long as there is an Iron Warrior unit within 3" of an objective within the opponent's deployment zone, enemy units also within 3" of an objective are ignored for the purposes of contesting objectives. (2CP) Ruinous Fire: Activate before shooting with a unit; the target ignores any benefits from being in cover, or it may claim them in exchange for forfeiting all action this Battle Round, save for the Fight Phase. (2CP) Weapons Up: One unit uses their unmodified Ballistic Skill for the purposes of Overwatch. (3CP) Fury of the IVth Legion: Provided they haven't moved this Battle Round, one unit may shoot an additional time during any action. If used in conjunction with Fury of the Legion, the unit fires a total of 6 times within Rapid Fire range. White Scars: Legiones Astartes (White Scars) Swift Action: Any unit with this rule that moves the maximum distance available to it (before Advancing), re-roll To Wounds roll of 1 for all attacks as well as impose a -1 To Hit modifier on enemy units rolling ranged hits against it. Eye of the Storm: A White Scar warlord add's +1 to the roll to determine turn order or an attempt to Steal the Initiative. Born in the Saddle: White Scar Jetbike or Outrider units ignore Dangerous Terrain. To Laugh In Death's Face: Each Dreadnought & Heavy Support unit in your force removes 1 Command Point. Each Fast Attack unit gives an additional 1 Command Point. Doesn't apply in Zone Mortalis Missions. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Jink: Select a unit; enemy units shooting at that unit suffer a penalty of -1 to hit. (2CP) Withdraw, Then Return: Activate after falling back with a unit; that unit may either double its movement, or charge after falling back. (3CP) The Zao: Activate at the beginning of your turn; your entire force may advance its maximum as well as charge after advancing. Imperial Fists: Legiones Astartes (Imperial Fists) Disciplined Fire: Heavy Support Squads may re-roll any To Wound rolls against Vehicles. All infantry add +1 to their To Hit when firing Bolt Guns, Bolt Pistols, Heavy Bolters and Quad-Bolters. Blood and Honour: Characters with this rule must attempt a Heroic Intervention if they are able to, and re-roll 1's To Hit when fighting Characters. Unshakable Defense: Imperial Fist units ignore shooting casualties for the purposes of Battleshock as long as they are behind a fortification or barricade. The Bitter End: The Legion takes great pride in holding features declared untenable by others, many times holding worthless ground against superior numbers for little more than to make the trade of blood and Bolter round for the Imperium's glory. An Imperial Fist player always forfeits the decision to choose deployment position, but for all other purposes follows normal pre-game procedure. Unique Wargear: Vigil-Pattern Storm Shield: An upgrade for any model in Cataphracti or Indominus Terminator armour. Increases its invulnerable save by +1, but the bearer may never make an attack with more than one weapon in a Fight phase. Solarite Power Gauntlet: x2 -4 Bearer suffers no penalites To Hit as he would usually with a Power Fist. Prototype Illiastus-pattern Assault Cannon: Heavy 4, 6 -1/-4 on a To Wound roll of 6. Rolling 3 1s on its To Hit roll removes the weapon from the game. Legion Stratagems (1CP) Blood and Boltshell: One unit uses their unmodified To Hit for the purposes of Overwatch. (1CP) Terra Gloria, Terra Victor: You may force an enemy unit in close combat with an Imperial Fist unit to re-roll its Battleshock roll. (1CP) Temporary Fortification: One unit in cover improves its Armour save by an additional +1 until it moves. Effects are cumulative. Night Lords: Legiones Astartes (Night Lords) A Talent for Murder: If Night Lords models outnumber enemy infantry in an assault, all participating models get a +1 bonus to their To Hit and To Wound rolls. Bulky and Very Bulky models count as single models. Nostraman Blood: One additional model is removed during a failed Battleshock check. Preysight: All models in the force ignore the negative effects of Night Fighting. From the Shadows: Enemy units shooting at Night Lord units on the first turn of the game suffer -1 To Hit in addition to any other modifiers. Seeds of Dissent: If the force Warlord is slain, all Night Lord units make an immediate Battleshock test at -2 LD. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) The Scream: Enemy units use the lowest Leadership value present within the Unit for the purposes of Battleshock for the remainder of this Battleround, and ignore the presence of any Characters within proximity for the purposes of Battleshock tests for the remainder of this Battleround. (2CP) Into the Night: Night Lord units may double their Movement distance when Falling Back at the expense of all other Actions during this Round. (3CP) In Midnight Clad: Activate before setting up units and spend an additional [X]CP. The first [X] Battlerounds are under Night Fighting conditions. Blood Angels: Legiones Astartes (Blood Angels) Encarmine Fury: Blood Angels may always re-roll 1s on their To Wound rolls when Fighting. Without Remorse, Without Relent: A Blood Angels player may force the opponent to re-roll any Battleshock tests for enemy units within 1" of a Blood Angels unit. Units with this rule may not Fall Back unless a Blood Angels Character is within 3". Host of Angels: If your force possesses more vehicles than it does units with <Legiones Astartes>, you must forfeit 1 Command Point per extra vehicle. If you cannot do so you may not take them. Overcharged Engines: Your vehicles may double their Movement in exchange for D6 Mortal Wounds. If you choose to double its Advance distance you must roll 2D6 for its Mortal Wounds instead. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Alone Against the Tide: One unit or Character may make its attacks in the Fight phase as if it hasn't fought this phase. (3CP) Descent of Angels: Any Reinforcements that you bring on this turn may ignore their distance limitation for the purposes of deploying near enemy units. (1CP) Into Abandon: Activate before removing models as a result of Battleshock; those models may immediately make their attacks as if they haven't Fought this phase. (2CP) Angelic Host: All non-Blood Angel units in your force that are within 6" of a Blood Angels unit may re-roll their Battleshock rolls. Iron Hands: Legiones Astartes (Iron Hands) Inviolate Armour: Reduce AP of all ranged weapons by 1 when targeting Iron Hands units or Vehicles. Stand and Fight: Iron Hand units must pass a Leadership check before making an Advance or wishing to gain a benefit from cover. Rigid Tactics: An Iron Hand force should not contain more units of Jump Infantry, Bikes or Jetbikes than it does Infantry Units. If it does, forfeit 1 Command Point per extra offending unit. If you cannot do so you may not take them. Iron-Father: Any Praetor may be upgraded to an Iron Father, ignoring a point of Damage on a 6+ (roll for each) and gaining a Servo Arm. If an iron Father is equipped with a bike, jump pack or jetbike, you must forfeit 3 Command Points. If you cannot do so you may not take them. Legion Stratagems (2CP) Medusan Plate: Activate before making Armour save rolls for a unit or Character; that unit ignores all AP modifiers. (1CP) The Flesh is Weak: Activate when an Iron Hand unit or Character suffers damage; roll a D6 for each point of damage, ignoring it on a 6. (1CP) Medusan Pragmatism: One unit or Character may fire its weapons normally at an enemy unit within 1". This attack may not make use of Fury of the Legion. (2CP) By the Gorgon: All non-Iron Hand units in the force within 6" of an Iron Hand unit may automatically pass Battleshock rolls in exchange for D3 Mortal Wounds. World Eaters: Legiones Astartes (World Eaters) Incarnate Violence: All learned quickly that the Legion's wrath was not a thing to be tested, nor indeed even witnessed. Units with this rule may re-roll 1's To-Wound on the turn they charge. Characters with this rule gain improve their Weapon Skill by +1 when fighting an enemy Character. Bloodlust: Once the Legion's wrath was truly unleashed, it was more often than not completely unstoppable, including by its own command. When units with this rule choose to Advance, they must do so towards the closest enemy unit. Units with this rule may roll a D6 before making a battleshock test while in close combat. On a 4+, the unit does not take the battleshock test, and instead all models make an additional attack. Blood Madness: Units with this rule make an additional attack when charging. Models removed as part of a battleshock test may immediately make an additional attack before being removed. This unit must always advance towards the closest enemy unit, and if a unit with this rule finds itself within 12" of an enemy unit and is able to charge, it must attempt to do so. Units with this rule may not Fall Back. Legion Statagems: (2CP) Lessons of Nuceria: Activate after an opponent spends CP to activate a Command Ability. It's effects are ignored. (1CP) The Bloody Twelth: One unit or character may make an additional close combat attack. (2CP) The Crimson Path: Activate when a charging unit loses a model or models to Overwatch. They get to make all their attacks before being removed. (2CP) Anomalous Casualties: All non-World Eater units in the force within 6" of a World Eater unit may automatically pass Battleshock rolls in exchange for D3 Mortal Wounds. Exhortations of Butchery: Any non-character model in a unit with the <Legion> and <World Eaters> keywords within 3" of an Apothecary with the <Legion> and <World Eaters> keywords, may make an additional close combat attack. Any model that does so must roll a D6, suffering a Mortal Wound on a 1. Additional Proposed Legion Special Unit: Legion Decimatus (Consul Upgrade) Wargear: Discipline Staff (Power Maul) Bolt pistol Frag and Krak Grenades Enforcer: The Decimatus was a rank whose presence was evident foremost among the VIth and XIIth Legions, but nonetheless present in all the Legions. The Decimatus was more often than not a role assigned to problematically belligerent legionaries who did not posses the initiative and self-reliance of their Moritat counterparts. These individuals were assigned to supplementary periodical Hypno-Induction, a process that was rumored to continue beneath their ever-present helms, and were relied upon by Legion Command to reign in problematic legionaries retarding the battle plan. Commonly replaced by the more "Crusade ideal conclusive" Chaplains of the latter years of the Great Crusade, many of the new-found Chaplains nevertheless kept the old equipment of their rank, and indeed their temperament. Disciplinary Authority: At the beginning of a Battle Round, all Units within 3" of a Decimatus may choose to ignore their Legiones Astartes (Legion) special rules. If they choose do so, they automatically suffer a single Mortal Wound. Should a unit within 3" of a Decimatus fail a Battleshock test, it ignores the result rolled and instead suffers D3 Mortal Wounds. Ultramarines: Legiones Astartes (Ultramarines) Interlocking Tactics: An Ultramarine Force doubles its total amount of Command Points. Certainty and Resolve: Ultramarine units may re-roll Battleshock tests. Rigid Chain of Command: If the Ultramarine detachment loses its Warlord it may not make use of any Stratagems for the duration of the game. Additionally, if all HQ units are killed the opponent gains a bonus Victory Point. Legion Stratagems (1CP) Ordered Withdrawal: A unit that made a Fall Back action may fire its weapons in the shooting phase. (1CP) Suppressive Fire: Activate when making a shooting attack with any weapon that is not a Grenade or Pistol; the target unit may not fire Overwatch this Battleround, as well as suffering a -1 penalty to its shooting To Hit rolls for the duration of this Battleround. (xCP) Tactical Assimilation: An Ultramarines force may use any other Legion's generic Legion Stratagem for double it's Command Point cost. (3CP) Rearm and Regroup : If the number of models removed due to Battleshock is such that there is enough to constitute a minimum-sized unit or larger of their same type, you may use this Stratagem to bring them on as one unit from your table edge. Death Guard: Legiones Astartes (Death Guard) Remorseless: Death Guard units always make Battleshock checks on a LD value of 10. Sons of Barbarus: Death Guard units or Characters may ignore any Mortal Wounds on a roll of 4+. Damage values against Death Guard models are halved, rounding up. Intractable: Death Guard models halve their movement distance when Falling Back. (2CP) Blades Unbroken: You may force your opponent to re-roll all To Wound rolls against one Death Guard unit or Character ​this Battleround. (2CP) Phosphex Rounds: Activate when a unit armed with Bolters, Heavy Bolters or Quad Bolters makes a shooting attack; you may re-roll any failed To Wound rolls, and any casualties caused are doubled for the purposes of Battleshock resolution. Any To Hit rolls of 1 cause a Mortal Wound to the user. (2CP) Suffer not the Witch: One Death Guard unit may attempt to Deny the Witch. Sons of Horus: Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus) The Edge of the Spear: Sons of Horus units or Characters deployed from reinforcements may re-roll their charge distance. Merciless Fighters: Once all units within 1" of each other have fought, if there are more Sons of Horus infantry models than they are of the enemy, all Sons of Horus units and Characters may immediately make an extra attack. Death Dealers: Units and Characters shooting with a pistol, rapid fire or Assault weapon at an enemy within 12" need one less To Hit. Bitter Pride: Cannot benefit from Allied Character bonuses. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Encirclement: You may use this Stratagem multiple times during the Deployment phase; each use allows one unit to arrive from any table edge not opposite yours at a time of your choosing. (2CP) Call Off Your Wolves: Your opponent's Battleshock roll becomes a 6. (3CP) Marshall of Hosts: If the number of models removed due to Battleshock is such that there is enough to constitute a minimum-sized unit or larger of their same unit entry, you may use this Stratagem to bring them on as one unit from your Table edge. Word Bearers: Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers) True Believers: Roll an extra die for Battleshock, picking the lowest. Cut Them Down: Enemy models falling back from Word Bearers must roll a die, suffering a Mortal Wound on a 1. Charismatic Leadership: A Word Bearer force must always include a Chaplain or an extra Centurion than required by any Detachment. Legion Stratagems: (1CP) Dark Portents: Neither player may re-roll any dice this Battle Round. (2CP) Unholy Chanting: Select a number Word Bearer's units when activating this Stratagem. The selected units forfeit any action apart from moving (not Advancing). All units or Characters within 6" automatically pass Battleshock tests and re-roll all 1s for the duration of the Battle Round. (3CP) Sacred Sacrifice: Remove a number of models from a unit belonging to your force and choose the following: A Character or Monster may restore an equivalent number of wounds. A Character or Monster may increase their Strength or Toughness value by an equivalent number, lasting for the duration of this Battle Round. You may automatically cast a psychic power, given you removed a number of models equal to its casting value. An equivalent or less points worth of Daemons may be brought in as Reinforcements, immediately deploying anywhere on the board 9" away from an enemy unit. Salamanders: Legiones Astartes (Salamanders) Strength of Will: Roll an extra die for Battleshock, picking the lowest. Promethean Gift: Hand Flamers, Flamers and Heavy Flamers increase their Strength by 1. All enemy flame weapons used against the Salamanders have their Strength reduced by 1. Nocturne Born: Reduce Run and Charge distances by 1", to a minimum of 1". Disdain of the Dark Age: You must pay 3 Command Points to take a Moritat Consul or Destroyer Squad, as well as any Phospex or Rad weapon option or upgrade. Legion Stratagems: (1CP) Cleansing Fire: Hand Flamers, Flamers and Heavy Flamers in a selected unit score the maximum number of possible hits. (1CP) Nocturnian Artifice: A unit of your choice may re-roll To Hit and Armour Save rolls of 1. (2CP) Unto the Anvil: Your force ignores all Battleshock tests for the entire Battle Round. Raven Guard: Legiones Astartes (Raven Guard) By Wing and Talon: All infantry apart from those in Terminator Armour may re-roll the dice rolled for Advance as well as set up anywhere on the board during Deployment at-least 12" away from enemy units. Units in Terminator Armour increase their Strength by 1 after a successful charge for the entire battleround. Flesh Over Steel: If you wish to take more vehicles than Infantry units you must pay a Command Point per extra Vehicle. Legion Stratagems: (3CP) Decapitation Strike: Your units may target a Character this turn irrespective of his distance. (2CP) Coordinated Strike: Your units may advance the full distance this Battleround. (2CP) Shameless Withdrawal: Instead of Overwatch, you may move a unit D6" when an enemy unit declares a Charge. Alpha Legion: Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) Mutable Tactics: Choose one of the following: All units, Vehicles or Characters may make a move after all deployment is complete. Units may set up anywhere on the board during Deployment at-least 12" away from enemy units. Units and Vehicles may re-roll To Wound rolls against Vehicles or Monsters. Units gain an additional attack when charged by an enemy unit for the duration of the Battle Round. Units and Vehicles ignore cover for the purposes of movement. All units may attempt to Deny the Witch when targeted by a Psychic Power. Martial Hubris: If you suffer more units destroyed than your opponent, your opponent gains +1 VP. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) We Are Legion: Your opponent selects a model in his force. That model becomes a acharacter under your control, counting as having charged its parent unit if it was part of one. (2CP) The Harrowing: Deny the enemy a reinforcement of your choice from coming onto the board this turn. (xCP) Constant Assimilation: Youmay use any other Legion's generic Legion Stratagem for double it's Command Point cost.