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I returned to 40k at the end of 8th edition after not playing since Rogue Trader. I haven't played any 9th due to covid but have trying to keep up with developments (thank the Emperor for YouTube). One thing that seems to be apparent is that each new codex release seems to be making each faction killier and/or tankier, for instance the increased attacks and the changes to power from pain for the Drukhari. I was wondering if anybody had any tactical insights or ideas on how to remain relatively competitive as it seems that the last Marine codex actually toned them down a touch from 8th, apparently rebalancing them against the other armies codexes of that time.

So right now if you've seen some of my threads, I am convinced I can be competitive vs Death Guard. I just played against Sisters, and suffered a close loss vs. Death Guard. In those games I realized the obvious; we can't play a good ol' assault list and expect to win. The hunt has changed, and the approach to these games has changed as well. Without dragging this out, I'm going to jump into some units that have been more or less recently released and their overall impact on my games (and hopefully your games as well)! Right now I am going with a squad of ATV with MM's (sometimes one Onslaught.) While that may not be as potent as normal attack bikes, and now the loss of resurrection (which probably tipped the balance towards ATV's) is now another knock against them. What I've decided to add is a new Thunderstrike speeder. I have chosen this variant because it begins as a BS 2 vehicle (which is unique to these units). Also I feel that the Hammerstrike will get attention, however with White Scars the Thunderstrike will suit a backfield unit a bit better. This unit might be horrid overall, but I'm always trying new stuff. This makes my end list more spread out, a little better at handling multiple roles. I'd like to hear what units you guys are giving a go with?

Well, it's finally on: my Storm Lords have officially hit 2000+ points and I'm gonna smash them into my buddy's Crons tomorrow... The list (2035pts) is basically 'Dark Imperium +Indomitus + a few random things': Gravis Captain (Warlord: Rites of Battle) Chaplain (Hero of the Chapter: Master of Snares) Khan on Bike (Plume of the plainsrunner - the only oldmarine in the list, represented by Jetek Suberei) 2x5 Assault Intercessors (sword + fist) 10 Intercessors (bolt rifles; sword) Bladeguard Ancient (Eagle Banner) Judiciar 5 Blade guard (3 Indomitus + indomitus captain and lieutenant) 2x5 Reivers (grav/grapnel) 3 Bolter Inceptors 3 plasma Inceptors 3 Outriders 5 Hellblasters (assault incinerators) 3 Eradicators Ordered 2 Storm Speeders because obviously. Interested in thoughts on the list - I have more 10 more Assault Intercessors and 3 Outriders + another Indomitus Capt. and Lieutenant in the pipe as well. Pic or it didn't happen For the Mehrig Khan! The Storm is come! Cheers, The Good Doctor

Given the reveal that the individual HI box will be released in May, I wondered about people's thoughts on heavy intercessors for Scars lists. For me, my troops (autobolter intercessors) are kept cheap and cheerful to fit more cool stuff in a list, but I see the value in normalising on a T5, 3+ profile across my army. To swap.my intercessors for heavy intercessors thuugh, costs me a Khan on bike, which feels like.madness. What's everyone else's thoughts?

Ola White Scars crew. Bit of a dilemma here. I've got painted up 5 inceptors with bolters. Typically my fast attack choices are 5 plasma inceptors, 5 bolter inceptors and a unit of outriders. In the few games I've played over the last few months, the Outriders have escorted a primaris chaplain around the board, getting re-rolls to hit and +1 to wound and doing really good work, while the inceptors have bowled around with a bike captain or khan on bike unless that character has needed to go smash something. I feel like I want to run a second unit of outriders instead of the bolter inceptors - the target profile is similar and when Assault doctrine is on, Outriders are the clear winners in terms of damage output per point, but I have noticed the more I skew to combat, the harder the first two turns are and bolter inceptors are significantly better while tactical doctrine is active. The list also contains 5 plasma inceptors, before they get suggested. I know how awesome they are :)

Hi folks - so I have an old firstborn SM army that I am considering whipping out now with the new codex and improvements to the firstborn. My model collection is limited and tends towards more shooting then assault. I am considering which chapter best fits my play style. Currently I think Raven Guard or White Scars for their deployment and movement stratagems. I am slightly leaning towards the scars as I think they have the better movement and combat ability both of which I value a lot in 9th. So whilst my army is shooting based, I think the white scars add some mobility and ability to punch when needed. Clearly this is against the norm of white scars builds which tend to focus on the assault phase with some shooting support elements where essentially I am thinking of the opposite dynamic. Particular elements that white scars complement shooting is the ability to advance snd shoot assault weapons, make heavy weapons in a unit be fired as assault weapons, ability to jump out of a moving rhino, outflank units for 1CP flat, fall back and shoot for a unit. All really solid I think for a mobile shooting army. Thoughts?

So every early 9th edition game I play, I'm trying new units. With my Ultra's I've tried a 5 man Plasma-ceptor squad. What are your findings with them in White Scars? I am still trying to find some more heavy vehicle damaging abilities, and aside from close combat, I do like the idea of reinforcing any area of the table from the Inceptor's deep strike. I know some people prefer the Assault Bolters but in this case I think overcharged plasma is the way to go. The other issue is the fact this is in the Fast Attack slot, but I don't find I'm taking 3 squads of bikes, and usually there's a bit of overlap in their use. 3 men is the minimum, if it's worth taking 3? Thoughts?

So, now that there are both Primaris Bikers (with 6A on the charge each) and a Primaris Biker Chaplain, WS can do the following: 3 x Outrider squads 1 x Biker Chaplain, upgraded to Master of Sanctity with "Wise Orator" WL Trait and Benediction of Fury relic crozius All four units turboboost 20" and then charge 2D6", after the Chaplain has cast Litany of Hate and Strike off the Head... with Assault Doctine on, that amounts to 57 x S4 AP-2 Dmg 2 attacks on the charge, all with full rerolls to hit and to wound (the Chaplain gets another 8 x S6 AP-3 Dmg4 attacks himself, as also with full rerolls). This does not even account for the 40 x S4 AP-1 shots at 30" and the ability to fall back out of combat and recharge again... if Khan gets a Primaris Bike model as well, with a mobile +1 to wound aura, then the death star will indeed be fully operational!

Hi sorry if this is dull have not played 40k in like 18 Years was a dark angels player. I still read alot black library But resisted restarting. The new edition has caught my eye so I decided to dip my toe back in. After reading CW scars they became a firm favourite so decided to go with them. I brought the new rule book and codex so I got a lot of reading matter to try and bring me upto speed. What I am here asking For if anyone got any tipsof where to start or any helpful advice thanks

So I am considering bringing my White Scars against Tau tonight. I don't know all their fishy little names, but what I faced last time was something like this: Shadowsun Dual Riptides (One had a relic gun?) One shoots 36" x 18 mid strengths shots? The other shoots longer range, hits like a truck with a high strength weapon that does 3 + D3 damage for each unsaved wound. Ghostkeel (always a pain in the butt. I hate these things). Standard troops/hq's a dude that gives aura bonus' Standard multiple Drone squads. Not a ton, but still enough that shooting and actually 'hurting' a Riptide is nearly impossible. A large squad (I think it was 6) of the battlesuits (Crisis?) That have another relic gun that allows each model to shoot 12 times at S5 -1AP. He uses a new Strat that basically lets that squad use 5 Marker Lights! So I think I took on 72 shots a turn last game. A smaller squad with the same suits, but just melta/plasma in deepstrike. Two squads of Stealthsuits with Melta. So how crazy am I to try playing this with White Scars? I did beat this Tau army last week, but two things of note: 1. I was using my Eldar, and out ranged him overall. He didn't realize that until it was too late. Plus I just so happened to have my 5 man Reaper squad which can't be altered for Ballistic Skill so much of his '-1 to hit' did not matter. So my last list I forced myself to use Bikers, and although I beat a nasty Blood Angels army, this is going to be way different. I'm stuck on one or two units, and I don't want this to be an 'anti-Tau army'. This is my call comers. I usually have no idea who I am playing before hand, this is different because of all the Covid stuff so I know this time in advance. Basically most of list is set for White Scars based on what I own: HQ: - Kor'sarro Khan (I gotta have this guy. Too cool not to include. He rides in an Impulsor with hammer Intercessors). - Chaplain with Jump Pack. I pay the CP for the second cast of Litany bascially just using Hate, and the White Scars one anyway! - Libby in Phobos. I keep wanting to use Phobos abilities, but the White Scars powers are so fun. He infiltrates with Incursors. - Primaris Libby. Stormcaller powers as well but I give him an extra relic for +1 to cast those. I can't fail them.. .they are key to charging. - Captain on Relic bike, with Master of Snares. Troops: Incursors x 5 Incursors x 5 (I feel Incursors are not as good as Intercessors, but in this case their ability to always hit on 3's may be handy!) Intercessors x 5 w/Hammer Intercessors x 5 w/Hammer (Autobolters in case of advance / charge.) (these Intercessor squads always go in Impulsors with characters) Scouts x 5 with CC/shotguns Scouts x 5 with Snipers That's the core of 2 Battalions and this army goes through CP like candy. (I wish I could farm CP). Invictor Warsuit (Cheap enough to cause issues - often I'll encirclement him against super shooty armies) I miss using my Redemptor on top of this guy, but can't afford it now because..... BIKERS! Yup, 203 points worth! This has been my BIG experiment last few games: - Attack Bike w/MMelta - 5 more bikers with standard load out - 1 Hammer carrying card member of the Biker squad. So since using this unit I realized it takes a TON of CP. It advances, fires as normal (1 CP?) and gets an 3++ invuln ( 2 CP?) then after shooting, it charges. as normal per White Scars rules. I am -really- on the fence with this unit. It really just acts as a fancy escort for the Captain with Master of Snares and Hammer, but it has worked so far, even though it is CP intensive. Heavy: - 3 Eliminators. I just kinda fell into using these guys. 72 points to give all these incredibly annoying bubble characters a headache has been valuable. They don't always find a solid HQ target, but they can help kill a vehicle in a pinch. No idea if I should still be using them. - 2 Thunderfire Cannons. Turn 1 against fast armies, I double fire one cannon with the anti-movement shells. For one turn I get 3 rounds of firing while in Heavy Doctrine for 3 CP total. - 5 Hellblasters. 165 Points. Still very much on the fence with this. The problem is I sorely need something to help soften up, or finish tough targets. Transport: 2 Impulsors with shields. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So am I crazy going into a strong, competitive Tau list with this? Here's some things I need some thoughts on: 1. 2 x Libbies. I am thinking of using the Phobos one to try to farm CP. However having 2 guys with the Uber smite power, No overwatch ability, and extra Charge ability are huge. 2. Bikers, I'm still experimenting with, but if there is one bonus it's that my Captain Biker with anti-retreat Relic does not outpace the army anymore! 3. Hellblasters. They are decent in this list if only because they are a tough nut to crack. In T1 they sit in a shared Impulsor, get out in Tactical Doctrine and then overcharge. I know these guys have totally fallen out of favour, but I don't know how else to even threaten armour, unless..... 3.B Aggressors. I took them out my last few games for bikers. But is it worth using a squad in Encirclement? Replacing the Hellblasters? I'm relying on a charge and fists to get the job done, but they are slightly more economical than Hellblasters. Thoughts??? 4. Eliminators. Am I shooting myself in the foot here? In the games where they don't have a big role, I keep reminding myself they are only 72 points. So that's it. That's what I plan on taking, but even though the game is just a few hours away, I would appreciate any insight, or thoughts on units. I'm still thinking about Redemptor and/or Aggressors in Encirclement Reserves.

Hey mates. I am a White Scars player and while I love everything about the Chapter and their use of Bikes, I have run into a bit of a conundrum atm. With the new Primaris Bikes incoming, I have started seriously debating if it would be worth keeping my Non-Primaris units in general, and while I am keeping some of the HQ units and my Air Wing of Stormtalon Gunships, when it comes to the standard Bike Squads, I am really torn atm. What are your opinions on this? While I do love my Bike Squads, I am aware that GW will eventually replace all Non-Primaris units with Primaris in the future and a part of me see's this as an opportunity to sell them while they still have some value financially. Appreciate the help mates.

Heyall, I managed to snag an Indomitus box from a FLGS, and am using that as the foundation of my White Scars army. I was thinking of grabbing a SC Primaris Space Wolves box to net myself 10x Intercessors and 3x Aggressors. But what should I grab next for an aggressive and in your face list built around Indomitus?

So we discussed the White Scars chapter tactic getting updated to essentially include all units getting to advance and shoot assault weapons like normal, and just not bikes. My concern, and I found this really problematic in 8th edition, is finding balance. You want to put a lot of eggs into getting to grips with the enemy quickly, and turning it up a notch in T3. I found a lot of opponents actually hit harder. Lots of Chaos Marine builds, Wolves, etc, etc... but now you can add Death Guard, and probably of most concern: Custodes. So how do you find balance in that? I think lots of those opponents we can't run into. We have to widdle them down first, because if we don't we'll get chewed up pretty easily. A lot of our assaults come from mid tier troops, and they don't shoot well enough to take down hard targets. Yet we can't just walk up to a Telemon, or a blob of possessed, or a squad of Allarus Terminators, and just cross our fingers. I'm just curious where you guys find balance in those tough match ups, without diluting your assault force too much?

So as someone who really enjoyed White Scars' playstyle at the end of 8th, and into 9th, I thought it be a good idea to analyze what looks good/bad for White Scars with this new release. The overall shift to Core units from vehicles seems to work into any assault/infantry heavy army. - Incursors: A very playable unit hits a little harder in CC now thanks to -1 AP knives. A fun unit, not over the top, but good in any marine army to establish immediate board presence. - Assault Intercessors. Very playable on Indomitus release, now even better with 2 notable codex tweaks: 1 Fight twice strat only applies to Intercessors, and 2. customizable Sarge options. - Intercessors. Still a solid option. No real change except that since Primaris are the only valid targets for Transhuman might shift them in importance to a lot of troop selections. - Scouts. This feels like a similar shift to the changes made to Cataphractii/Tartaros. Losing Ob/Sec is massive. - Aggressors. Probably the first negative. A great unit for many armies (strangely for different reasons). Now this is a harder sell with the loss of all special rules. (A good target for the strat that allows them to have ALL Doctrines active though.) - Bikers- Firstborn: An extra wound, and the buff to Heavy Bolters/Multimelta. - Outriders: Still a good unit but I think everyone expected a change to squad size which never happened. Do Firstborn eclipse this version as a result? - HQ/Elite Support units: Chaplains! Yes please. On a bike? Absolutely. Apothecaries! Absolutely. New tweaks plus the enhancement to infantry/core make these choices arguably even better for White Scars. - ATV. I know this is a polarizing unit in appearance, but I think this is a solid choice for the points considering the speed, and tweaks to weapon mounts. - Dreads/Contemptors/Redemptors: What's not to like for any army? Filling in anti-tank can be challenging for some assault based armies, but this combines the best of both worlds with the built in strat reducing damage by 1. - Eradicators: Good out of Indomitus, now with more flexibility this unit can make a mess of anything that let's these guys get too close. - Terminators: +1 wound is just good. Deep striking has always helped, but it just makes more sense to include them with survivability. - Cataphractii/Tartaros: big losers here. Shockingly so, GW decided to make these playable in name only. - Impulsors: These dropped a notch for sure. Losing several rules, and then seeing these rules largely converted to Strats is not great news here. The points drop does not really make up for this. The dome nerf to a 5++ is easily the biggest takeaway from the nerfs. I've never liked how you can shoot through these units as if they didn't exist (floating). Now Rhino's definitely seem better, but don't handle Primaris. Is it better to walk and increase your boots on the table? - Gladiators: A strange addition that might make its way into my White Scars just to have something in the back field that isn't just an empty Impulsor. - Vanguard Vets: Wow. From zero to hero here in my opinion. Strat support (HoW) storm shield tweaks, very fast, and cheap for a survivable, fast unit. This might be an auto include in my Scars going forward. Honourable Mentions: - Skilled Riders. This took a substantial nerf. Bikes were good with this but it is going to see far less play. I lived off of this in every game in its previous effects. - Hammer of Wrath. Charging with jump pack units just got better. In engagement range, a decent sized squad can cause real damage against a super survivable target by simply equaling or beating toughness. - Grav Amplifcation: Gone. Start ripping those Grav arms off your devs and start gluing on MM's! What would you guys change or add?

As much as I like the WS toolkit for it's depth, I do frequently feel a bit type-cast putting a list together. Assault weapons, melee infantry, bikes, vehicles that are either fast or at least mostly armed to not lose firepower if I use Hunters' Fusilade; The Usual Suspects, if you follow me. I though it might be interesting to talk about success you've had with units that don't fit the mold for WS so well, times when something you threw in for a lark or just because you like the model performed surprisingly well on the table. The one that springs most readily to my mind is Stalker Intercessors. They're pretty good at just sitting on an objective and still contributing, and in a smaller army it's easy to overlook the need to fill that roll. How about the rest of you?

So just an experimental question here: I have 2 ATV's that I just finished putting together. Can you convince me they should be used with White Scars over my Ultramarines, without using the 'well they're bikes' line of reasoning? The models are growing on me but the points are efficient. I could see them in really nearly any army. Is there a true table top synergy here to use them with WS? (P.S. I also have a Primaris Chaplain on bike, and he is feeling much more suitable to WS than UM's.)

So there's a few angels I'm looking at this.... Aggressors is one, but Aggressors + Khan + Repulsor seems like a strong, deep threat that will be ready for assaults in Turn 3. If you're applying pressure from your table edge, or infiltrating a lot, this could make a very shooty army, very concerned and give you table top real estate while your opponent safe guards against your infiltration. Aside from this kind of Primaris pack, I'm having trouble of coming up with something that isn't.... Centurions. Or Centurions in a Landraider? What's working for you guys with Encirclement?

How good are White Scars as far as melee bikers are concerned? I am currently trying to throw together a sort of shock cavalry / knight-themed homebrew Chapter and I'm trying to find the rules to best represent the classic medieval heavy cavalry that were medieval knights. Currently, I'm still fleshing out a Blood Angels army, but I was wondering how well White Scars could fulfill this archetype.