coolcyclone2000 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I was reading through the Witch Hunter Codex when i came across force weapons. I was pretty sure that the Warp Blade (Tzeentch Daemon Weapon) was one, but just to make sure, i checked and it wasn't :D ! I find this very strange. Why doesnt chaos have force weapons??? Cyclone Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aarhus Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Because we have: Dark Blades/Manreapers/Berzerker Glaives/Ether Lances the ability to get S10 on any of our champions bloodletters/daemonettes/plaguebearers/horrors+flamers/furies/Khorne Dogs/Screamers long range ordnance that pierces power armour AND insta-kills most things an elites choice that COMES with S5 and a 5+ invul, with the ability to have rending, an extra attack, flying or a couple other things psycho daemonic gifts such as D.Str, Stature, Visage, Speed, Mutation (7 attacks from any chaos lieutenant!?) the ability to be S5 and strike at initiative (or strike at S6 I5 on a regular champ!) we can infiltrate our jump infantry cultists/T5 core troops/W2 core troops/I5 core troops /A3 core troops/marines for one point cheaper than loyalists (and a better standard Ld) autocannons (when combined en masse with Tank Hunter is AWESOME!) more options for our dreads +1 AV on almost any vehicle, ignoring half the glancing hits table and being able to regenerate a weapon and/or an immobilized hit, havoc launchers (which is awesome in certain instances) combi-meltas on our rhinos (this is soooooo good!!!) Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Cheers, Lawrence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Aarhus is right; we don't get everything loyalists have because we have other things instead. If we had all our fun little toys and their's, that wouldn't be at all fair. It might not make a huge amount of sense fluff-wise, but it makes the game worth playing. It'd be no fun if everyone was the same, now would it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnaz Adun Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 We may not have a force weapon. But we have the plague sword, which I'd prefer anyway. Cheaper, and nearly as reliable. AND you can get them on all your aspiring champs. If you're Nurgle, at least. -Marnaz Adun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Barak Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Fluff-wise I think they were invented (rediscovered) Post Hesesy... And we get the most awesome anti-force wepon item ever - the Collar of Khorne! PRAISE BE TO THE BLOOD GOD!!! ALL GLORY TO HE WHO SITS ATOP THE SKULL THRONE!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus Zeal Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Force Weapon? On Tzeentch models? Do you have any idea just *how* bad that would be? One wound would be an instant kill, no check necessary (as Tzeentchian models automatically pass any psychic test they take). Combine this with the fact just how many psykers there are in a Tzeentch army (and therefore just how many Force Weapons would be able to be taken)... Even in other armies, like Space Marines and Imperial Guard, you'll only see 1, maybe 2, at an extreme, 3 Force Weapons. In a Tzeentch army you'd see 6+. That's 6+ guaranteed kills every round in close combat. Combine that with Daemonic Strength and Daemonic Mutation and you stand a damn good chance to instakill anything that's below T9 (and the only thing that's T9, to the best of my knowledge, is the new Forgeworld Greater Daemon of Nurgle). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Force Weapon? On Tzeentch models? Do you have any idea just *how* bad that would be? One wound would be an instant kill, no check necessary (as Tzeentchian models automatically pass any psychic test they take). Combine this with the fact just how many psykers there are in a Tzeentch army (and therefore just how many Force Weapons would be able to be taken)... Even in other armies, like Space Marines and Imperial Guard, you'll only see 1, maybe 2, at an extreme, 3 Force Weapons. In a Tzeentch army you'd see 6+. That's 6+ guaranteed kills every round in close combat. Combine that with Daemonic Strength and Daemonic Mutation and you stand a damn good chance to instakill anything that's below T9 (and the only thing that's T9, to the best of my knowledge, is the new Forgeworld Greater Daemon of Nurgle). Making a Tzeentch equivalent to a Force Weapon as a Daemon Weapon would solve most of these problems. You could even increase the risk of its use by making the Mastery test harder to pass when you use the weapon's special ability (eg -1 for every wound taken above 1). Voila, you have a relatively balanced Force Weapon equivalent for Tzeentch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratoKhan Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Yes, but as the others mentioned, why have all the toys? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus Zeal Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Doesn't really make it balanced even with that. Think about it. The few armies that have Force Weapons (Daemonhunters, Space Marines, Imperial Guard) have them limited to one or two for the leader (Inquisitor Lord/Inquisitor, Librarian, Sanctioned Psyker) -- that's because there's very few psykers in any of those armies. Any Tzeentch army is *filled* with psykers. Imagine a unit of Chosen Terminators, armed with Force Weapons. Not a pretty sight, is it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Doesn't really make it balanced even with that. Think about it. The few armies that have Force Weapons (Daemonhunters, Space Marines, Imperial Guard) have them limited to one or two for the leader (Inquisitor Lord/Inquisitor, Librarian, Sanctioned Psyker) -- that's because there's very few psykers in any of those armies. Any Tzeentch army is *filled* with psykers. Imagine a unit of Chosen Terminators, armed with Force Weapons. Not a pretty sight, is it? You're missing the point. If it was a daemon weapon it would be limited to the 0-1 daemon weapons rule for the army. But still, we should NOT get all the cool toys. That'd be overpowered and boring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1192584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Barak Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 An I don't think that Thousand Sons are actually psykers. They use sorcery, which was why the Emperor had his hissy fit and set the puppies on him. So a Force Weapon may not actually work for a Thousand Sons Sorcerer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1193585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 An I don't think that Thousand Sons are actually psykers. They use sorcery, which was why the Emperor had his hissy fit and set the puppies on him. So a Force Weapon may not actually work for a Thousand Sons Sorcerer. In the 40k universe, psykers and sorcerers are synonymous. The magical ability is fueled by energy drawn from the warp. The emperor got upset at the T-Sons because they were using black/forbidden magic. The fluff never really says what exactly constitutes "bad" magic, but I think it's clear that it was some particular type of sorcery that got the T-Sons in trouble, not just sorcery in general. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1193672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Barak Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Ahh - right. I imagine 'bad sorcery' has something to do with puppies and microwaves. It's all cheating anyway. You should all get chainaxes and worship Khorne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1194077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 It's all cheating anyway. You should all get chainaxes and worship Khorne. My sentiments exactly! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1194138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aarhus Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Ahh - right. I imagine 'bad sorcery' has something to do with puppies and microwaves. :eek :) That's going straight to my Sig!! Cheers, Lawrence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1194236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Barak Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Awesome! :tu: I am both honoured and humbled to be a part of your sig. Puppies for everyone! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1194323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic D Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Well a plauge sword works almost like a force weapond,kills every thing on 4+ , But than I would be boring if every army had the same armoury. Than we chaos players have one of the best codex in the 40k game. Combi weapons to every terminator in the squad, demon weaponds etc.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1199700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
o.J. Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 What about the daemon sword Abaddon has? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1200762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I find it strange that during the Heresy and before they used Jetbikes and now loyal and Chaos use normal bikes. Why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1200866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I find it strange that during the Heresy and before they used Jetbikes and now loyal and Chaos use normal bikes. Why?Not that it has anything to do with why Chaos doesn't have force weapons but, the official reason for missing jetbikes is lack of technology. The knowledge was lost! There's land speeders still though. Go figure. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1200938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaelion Hexis Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I figured the reason for there being no force weapons in chaos armies (aside from game balance) is that they are a newer technology, like land speeders, attack bikes etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1201290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic D Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I find it strange that during the Heresy and before they used Jetbikes and now loyal and Chaos use normal bikes. Why? I think that you have to look at it as to how many chapters had jet bikes. They could be a rare like jumping packs, than if the Imperium can build them, well than there is no new hover bike for chaos to steel... When I think about it, all pictures and art of chaos is often showing of something crude and old, not like their High tech loyalist brothers! Chaos is often a mixture of old armours with spikes, strange savage helmets and crude axes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1204230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disistablishmentarianism Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I figured the reason for there being no force weapons in chaos armies (aside from game balance) is that they are a newer technology, like land speeders, attack bikes etc. What? Sticking a side-car on the side of a bike is a new technology? we doing that now, although minus the heavy bolter/multi-melta and it's a new technology 40 thousand years into the future? Back on topic: They shouldn't have force weapons for exactly the reason that came up before, imagine TS with them. It would become the only chaos army played if that was the case, also if chaos had all the toys of space marines I would defect, yes i would. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1612459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 This post is about 2 years too late... and we do have force weopons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1612464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loketh Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Threadomancy, dear god! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/103924-no-force-weapons-for-chaos/#findComment-1612513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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