Bigdog Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Hi guys I saw an entry here yesterday with a couple of female Space Marines in Power Armour. Sorry I can't find the link now. Anyways I've been working on a female Wolf Lord for an old army of mine. Theory behind it was that no-one ever said that women couldn't become Space Marines and I figured with the SW being more individual than most they are probably more likely to accept one. Just wondering what you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudd Monkey Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Theory behind it was that no-one ever said that women couldn't become Space Marines and I figured with the SW being more individual than most they are probably more likely to accept one. Just wondering what you think? Umm, I thought the incredibly well established fluff was that only males could be Space Marines? I'd say almost every one says that women cant be females, not no-one. Also, Space Wolves whilst some what unique in their ways... I dunno, a Woman Warrior just doesn't seem to fit in with the the culture. Space Wolves are typical Alpha Males, drinking brawling, fighting, telling tales. I don't feel they would accept a woman unless she could out drink and out fight the vast majority of them (maybe something to work into the fluff for your mini) All that being said, I LIKE the mini. The green stuff work looks good and I think you have executed the pose etc very well. One thought though is the bust, if you look at most female pro athletes or at least the Ultra fit, more often than not their breast size is inversely proportional to their fitness. That is to say, a Superfit female Space Marine is probably not likely to be large busted. Something to think of if you make another similar mini. Looking fwd to seeing it painted up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydra Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Looks good and realistic. Using bulky armour is much better than giving them smaller armour because they are women, like most other people do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barret Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I like it. I've always thought female Space Marines would be cool in the Wolves. Boadicea, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdog Posted April 9, 2007 Author Share Posted April 9, 2007 Umm, I thought the incredibly well established fluff was that only males could be Space Marines? I'd say almost every one says that women cant be females, not no-one. I've been gaming for years and I've never seen any fluff that says only males could be space marines. Perhaps given GW's target audience for WH40K that would be a fairly good assumption. a Woman Warrior just doesn't seem to fit in with the the culture. Space Wolves are typical Alpha Males, drinking brawling, fighting, telling tales. I don't feel they would accept a woman unless she could out drink and out fight the vast majority of them True but real world Norse mythology has examples of female warriors. Valkyries whilst not technically warriors would arrive to take the dead and dying to valhalla. I figure that she could almost be an icon for her great company. The main criteria for acceptance into the Sw as far as I can see is simply combat prowess and determination. This tends to be in the fluff too, the Space Wolf novel for example. Because women are physically less powerful than men (generally rather than specifically) this would explain a lack of female fighters in a male dominated warrior culture. However each Space Marine isn't just another soldier, they're supposed to be exceptional individuals who have been elevated to superhuman abilites. Anyway it's a space wolf - there's got to be fluff in there somehwere :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maratheus Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 When I saw this, the first thing that came to my mind was the Valkyries. Really nice conversion, though I have a hard time distinguishing where the hair ends and where the fur begins but I think a paintjob will take care of that problem. And who cares about fluff when you have a cool model? *dodges a flying shoe* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcite Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Celtic and Norse armies did include female warriors, it isn't constrained to just mythology! I wouldn't be surprised that after the coming of Christianity, women were excluded from military duties due to characteristics ascribed to them in the Bible, and of course, to continue the theme of patriarchy. Saying that, I think Celtic and Norse female warriors were in the minority due to social responsibilities. Considering the Space Marines are 'warrior-knight monks in space' (e.g. Christian) then I'd wager women wouldn't be allowed, but the Norse inspired Space Wolves could contradict this! The model is really nice, but the bust is a bit too big! Lara Croft eat your heart out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacker Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 If you check page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 Compendium from back in the old Rogue Trader days, it has this: They must be male because zygotes are keyed to male hormones and tissue types ... This was first printed back in a UK White Dwarf around issue 102, and reprinted in 1989 in the Compendium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugski Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I'd say almost every one says that women cant be females, not no-one. Come on, did nobody notice did. It sure made me laugh :whistling: But back on topic. I don't think any self-respecting Wolf would take orders from a woman. No disrespect intended, but it just doesn't fit in with their alpha male attitude. I do like the look of your model though. I really like the fur cape, any pointers how you have done that? My guess would be the commander's cape with GS'ed fur. And of course you can't go wrong with a big Thunderhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakiq Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Luther of the Dark Angels was too old to become a Space Marine so they used other means to enlarge his frame and make him a semi Space Marine, why couldn't they do the same to women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Varren Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Luther of the Dark Angels was too old to become a Space Marine so they used other means to enlarge his frame and make him a semi Space Marine, why couldn't they do the same to women? Depends whether you go with that, or instead take the view where the Crusade-era marines could be created from adults as well as youths, since the Emperor hadn't let medical/scientific techniques decline to their current state - back in the day they had the means to create things like the Primarchs (who they? :whistling: ), no less than EIGHT different armour styles, etc., whereas in the 10,000 years to follow, scientific progression has ground to a halt, with the Imperium's tech level being pretty much where it was at the close of the Heresy. If you go with that, it allows things like Luthor, and the original marines made from gangers from Cthonia/prisoners from Lycaeus/etc. much more plausible. As for female marines, that's a mighty tasty model, but the hormone-therapy thing means that proper female marines are just an intriguing pipe-dream. To be fair, men don't get to be Sisters of Battle, so it's a 'swings-and-roundabouts' thing... :drool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudd Monkey Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Come on, did nobody notice did. It sure made me laugh ^_^ LOL, ooops. I should go back, edit, and fix the typo, but I kinda prefer it the way it is :sweat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbynz Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 who cares about the fluff do what you want and that is a good looking model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Angelus Sanctus Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 We discuss painting, conversions and artwork here gentlemen, not the background behind :sweat: A very nice model there BD, the GS work is great and the work you have done in terms of converting the mini are fantastic ^_^. Keep up the excellent work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Celtic and Norse armies did include female warriors, it isn't constrained to just mythology! I think you'll find that Celtic woman rarely fought, only if they needed to make up the numbers, and in Norse armies it was unheard of for a woman to take to the field of battle, women were more inclined to be skalds or worked with runes. Not a fan of the model either to be honest, to much fluff already says females cant be Space Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHalifax Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 And yet another thread devolves into the "golly GURLZ AM NOT SPACEMARINEZ!!11eleven" arguement :D IMO It's a power-armoured model being posted on a forum for power-armoured models so you shouldn't have to justify it being female. That being said I think you've pulled it off really well, I especially like the pose, your sculpting technique for fur and the small details like the Wolf tails on the chain, and the Fangs around her neck. Nicely done, they really make the model look like a Space Wolf. <_< The Halifax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krieger haggoroth Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 While I agree with the whole "no female marines due to the zygote" thing.... This model looks positively spectacular. I cant wait to see it painted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I really like the model. She'll make a good Wolf Preistess. As for the fluff behind of it, I've read on this forum a lot of times that women can't be Space Marines. There's been a lot in this post, and even some Space Wolves players saying that not self respecting SW would follow a woman. I think that this is wrong. Take for example, Joan of Arc. That's a woman that Space Wolves would follow. She refused to leave the field when she was wounded during an attempt to recapture Paris. That sounds very Space Marine-ish and Space Wolfish. I think there can be exceptions to the no female space marine rules. And if there's no change, I just might make a DIY chapter of Drag Queens. <_< That should get around the fluff then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyme Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Looks good and realistic. Using bulky armour is much better than giving them smaller armour because they are women, like most other people do I think the GS work here is fantastic I wish I could do fur like that. However, if you are going to represent something surely you would model it based on the typical/stereotype to help the viewer so the hips, waist and chest need to be slighter. I've always pictured female space marines to be kinda like Amazonians - tall and muscular but no proportioned like men. A bulky long haired space marine looks just like that. Reducing the bulk makes the form more feminine which would/should be the goal? Otherwise it's just cross dressing marine ;) Having said that this has got to be the best example I've yet seen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdog Posted April 9, 2007 Author Share Posted April 9, 2007 I really like the fur cape, any pointers how you have done that? My guess would be the commander's cape with GS'ed fur. And of course you can't go wrong with a big Thunderhammer. Glad you guys like the mini. I did the cape in two stages. First, I rolled a strip of GS into a kind of rectangular shape about 1.5 to 2mm thick and molded it onto the back of the model, around the block for fitting the backpack onto to give it a little extra security. Whilst it was still pliable I used my fingers to get the cloak into the shape I wanted and let it dry. I found that wetting your fingers helps with this as you can smooth out the GS and you're less likely to leave fingerprints on the underside of the cloak. This part becomes the underside of the cape. Once the basic shape was dry and hardened, I covered the survace in another layer of GS and started working the fur texture into it with a cocktail stick and the back of the blade from a citadel scultiping tool. I found that if you start at the bottom and work back up the cloak, the fur looks like it overlaps and looks a bit more natural than just dimpling it. I continued the fur texture up and over the shoulders and down the front of the model to make the 'paws' of the wolf skin. I have other space wolf mini's which I've been working on with a similar technique. They're not as good as the this one but I'll post them when I get a chance if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin Vraal Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Ignore the naysayers. The pose works really well, she looks strong, confident and mean. Paint her up! ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Looking good. Excellent job on the cloak! ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 My personal opinon is that female marines would be pretty much indistinguishable from the males (in armour at least...) due to the amount of hormones they get. Look at women bodybuilders, they only wear bras out of habit after a certain level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 My personal opinon is that female marines would be pretty much indistinguishable from the males (in armour at least...) due to the amount of hormones they get. Look at women bodybuilders, they only wear bras out of habit after a certain level... But space marines aren't body builders Female marines would be more like the fitness types which combine strength agility and stamina they still have a definitive form as female. On Topic looks good i agree that it's hard to see where the hair ends and the wolf pelt begins but paint well clear that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratoKhan Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Cool. My question is, apart from overemphasising the fact that the character is a woman, why does the chestplate have breasts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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