Heru Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 They see it as irredeemable. Could you redeem your honour if you murdered your loved ones that have stuck by you through the worst of times whilst you were drunk? I would have a better chance of redeeming my honor as me than by changing my name and having plastic surgery. I also might endure less scorn by actually facing my shame instead of hiding from it. Dishonoured Samurai committed suicide if they lost a battle. They didn't seek to redeem their honour through future deeds. A marine who falls to the Black Rage repaints his armour, a Chapter who loses a great hero may honour him with a symbol on one of their company banners. Why can't it be the same for a Chapter who has felt both dishonoured, and dishonourable? Repainting their armour to show their shame and as a testiment to resolution to never allow themselves to be hurt again. Compassion for what? Everyone is dead, all that's left is a cold uncaring Universe filled horrors unimaginable and those so weak that they weaken those who try to protect them. So protect them anyway. You're a bunch of dishonored Space Marines - where do you get off being picky? Besides, getting wiped out defending a group of people who are weakening you by defending them sounds like just the thing to redeem your honor. A person who suffers hurt is more than likely to avoid putting themselves in the position to be hurt again. This can lead to alienation, dispassion, and even resentment (whether rational or irrational). And, as a general rule, I prefer my symbols a little subtler than "Black! White! Oh, the DUALITY!" B) This is, of course, individual taste. Subtlety as you said may work for you, but when your trying to make a point it's better to be the Rhinoceros in the China shop than the needle in a haystack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1546216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Dishonoured Samurai committed suicide if they lost a battle. They didn't seek to redeem their honour through future deeds. Hey! No switching metaphors! :) More to the point, Space Marines aren't samurai. And these guys obviously aren't, or they'd be dead. A marine who falls to the Black Rage repaints his armour, a Chapter who loses a great hero may honour him with a symbol on one of their company banners. Why can't it be the same for a Chapter who has felt both dishonoured, and dishonourable? Repainting their armour to show their shame and as a testiment to resolution to never allow themselves to be hurt again. It's the changing the name. Changing the armor, I could see, but the symbol and the name should remain the same. Otherwise, they've abandoned it wholly, and it cannot be redeemed. To me, it comes across at least on some levels as if they're trying to ignore their failures, rather than atone for them. And that's rather...un-marine-like. Subtlety as you said may work for you, but when your trying to make a point it's better to be the Rhinoceros in the China shop than the needle in a haystack. I'd see it as better to be the swarm of locusts in the field. Lots of little things adding up to a big effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1546262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Ok think of it this way: You are the White Falcons your bond with those of your world is far greater than most Chapters. Every 22 years to celebrate your Founding you return home and rather than holding up in your Fortress Monastery you spend time with those who share your blood amongst the civilian population. Your duty is to protect, you have made oaths to the Chapter to protect those who cannot protect themselves especially those closest to you. You are the White Falcons, and like the White Falcon birds of your homeworld you will guard those weaker than you against threats that may even be stronger than you, and you will do this alongside your White Falcon Astartes brethren again just like the White Falcons who live and fight in flocks. Now cycle forward this has been going on for many centuries, and many generations your Chapter has made a name for itself fighting on trying to save as many as they can, putting themselves in harms way where some other Chapters wouldn't. You are returning home from distant campaigns once again for the Founding celebrations but what you return to is your homeworld burning, Chaos has invaded and most of those you cared for and held close have joined them. Those who stayed loyal to your Chapter are fighting alongside those Marines who were left behind to guard the world, but they are losing the numbers against them are too many. Into the fray you go, forced to kill friends and family who have the mark of Chaos branded into their flesh, and you start to push back the tide. After days of fighting a eerie and strange light fills the sky the horror and guilt you feel slowly being seeped away to be replaced by a rage so black that no longer are you killing those you loved, but instead you are killing those who betrayed you, who dishonoured you, who disrespected you. They are no longer innocents taken by Chaos they are monsters, creatures too weak to be worthy of your love, they are traitors, heretics and mutants so you kill harder, faster and in more sadistic ways taking delight in their deaths. Eventually there is none left to kill but the rage is still there and a terrible blood lust, a need to inflict pain and death. So you turn on those who stayed loyal to you chasing them through the streets butchering them, torturing them, hacking them to pieces and wearing their body parts as trophies. But they run out too so you turn on your Brother Marines. When you see them you also take sadistic effort to shoot any White Falcon bird you see, taking satisfaction in watching them explode in the air. Now you are Heru Talon the most recent Chapter Master, as seasoned Commander well respected within the Chapter. You have been affected by this Chaos Rage as much as anyone else, your White and Silver Armour is smeared with blood and guts from many different sources, from your belt hangs the skulls of some of those you have killed including Astartes. Your madness brings you to the place you grew up in, the place where your ancestor the first Chapter Master of the White Falcons Asar Talon grew up in. It is a burnt out ruin, you walk into the rubble and turn the corner looking for something else to kill. You come face to face with a living legend, a Black Falcon an elusive bird the size of an Astartes, a bird distantly related to the much smaller White Falcon on which your Chapter is symbolically modeled. A bird which is feared because in many ways it is the opposite of the White Falcon birds, where the White Falcons live in flocks the Black Falcons are solitary, where the White Falcons will protect those who are weak the Black Falcons will kill. Your eyes drift down to it's razor sharp talons, one of which keeps it perched on the wall the other clutches a broken toy, a toy you recognize from your youth as a human, a toy passed down through the generations that once belong to Asar himself when he was mortal. Your eyes drift up the bird sizing it up, another trophy to kill, the momentary jolt of recognition again being replaced by the rage. Your eyes meet it's you see the many millenias worth of knowledge kept within those eyes, you feel a jolt and the rage inexplicably clears. The Falcon flies away back to it's secluded lair in the mountains. Your eyes drift to your blood drenched hands, and the horror and guilt engulfs you. You fall to your knees in the ruins and weep. You return to the Fortress Monastery and you find those who did not succumb to the rage, the only members of the Chapter who rarely mingled with the civilian population because of their "gifts", the Librarians of the Chapter or at least what is left of them. The Chief Librarian is dead, having been killed by the First Company Captain, you meet his successor Nekhai who is named after an obscure God of Strife from ancient Myth, you manage to convince him that you have defeated the rage, and he looks inside you to see that it is true and in fact also useful for helping to stop the others. You and the Librarians sally forth from the Fortress Monastery capturing the raging White Falcons stalking the streets one by one, the Librarians using the knowledge they have gained to help the Marines defeat the rage. But in some the rage is too dark and too deep it is undefeatable, and as the Chapter Master you see it as your duty to give those brothers the Emperor's peace, their geneseed left unharvested. It takes many days but finally the task of quelling the rage is over, but still the faces of those you killed haunt you, those who had been controlled by Chaos, those who had stayed loyal, and those of brother Astartes lost in their madness. You assemble what is left of the Marines, you repaint your armour in the colours of the Black Falcon to mark your shame, and all the other Astartes do the same. You gather the items that you can from the Fortress Monastery before you set it to self destruct, as the pitiful remains of your Chapter head towards the mountains to which the Black Falcon flew, the Fortress Monastery's reactors overload and it and the surrounding city are vapourised, all that is left is a giant crater. In the mountains your Chapter all but falls apart, many succumb to leagues of guilt and shame and the Chapter starts to die a slow death. It is at this point that the Black Falcon you saw in the city screams it's hunting call soaring high above you. You know what you must do. You lead the Chapter to rebuild the Fortress Monastery on and into the highest of the mountain range's mountains. The Chapter toils with it's own hands for two decades before the task is finally complete. Now comes the time to rebuild the Chapter's numbers. New Chaplains are created from those who fought the rage the hardest, and they are sent out into the wilderness to find recruits from those humans that had evaded the forces of Chaos, and either escaped or were not present for the massacre conducted by the White Falcons. The Chaplains do not go into the new and crude settlements that have grown up in the decades since the invasion declaring who they are, instead they become monsters to the people, evil Daemons left over from the invasion who snatch chosen children away. It takes many more decades before the Chapter is once more ready to go out into the Universe, at this point the civilian society that once thrived on Xeskis VII has devolved into the Dark Ages, many people that were around before the invasion are long since dead, and the technology of better times has been forgotten and fallen into misuse or abandonment. The sword, and the bow are once again the chief weapons of the people, and many are the natural predators they have to fight off to survive. The White Falcon birds are extinct, and the Chapter that carried it's name now only exists in legends of greatness standing against the darkness. The massacre forgotten by all but the Astartes themselves, who now have no contact with the people except for the Chaplains who are monsters stealing away children that show potential use to the Chapter. You are now a Black Falcon it is your duty to fight, nothing more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1546545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kil78 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 not bad at all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1546669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Wow...that's good...very good... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1546940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 I guess Octavulg gave up... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I guess Octavulg gave up... *Massive round of applause in the room behind me* well done :P Looks like you defeated him :P *preparing for mass OB from Octavulg* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Asmodius Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 i have to say that is an impressive story you have come up with heru. congratulations. personally i dont like the name "extinction agenda" but thats a small thing. i like the black falcon color scheme but the white and silver just doesnt work for me (i know it fits the fluff, the white falcon imagery, and everything. i just dont care for it.) What happened to the White Falcon's fleet? Did the Black Falcons destroy it along with their monestary? What is iniation into the Black Falcons like? How do you get new recruits to have the same outlook as those who actually went through and overcame the rage? Is there much of a gap in beliefs between the Old White/Black Falcons and the new Black Falcon recruits? just some things to think about and keep up the good work heru. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 I guess Octavulg gave up... *Massive round of applause in the room behind me* well done Looks like you defeated him :D *preparing for mass OB from Octavulg* That wasn't what I meant. I meant that I guess Octavulg has just given up trying to convince me, rather than coming round to what I was saying. personally i dont like the name "extinction agenda" but thats a small thing. It's an outside name tagged to the organization by the Inquisitor who first encountered it (ie"As far as I can tell nameless organization of traitors, renegades and Chaos worshippers has no official name, or at least not one that they openly use in front of outsiders. What is obvious though is their agenda which seems to be the extinction of all life in at the very least our Galaxy, if not the Universe"). The organization itself doesn't refer to itself by any specific name though on occasion certain members use the term coined by the Inquisitor "Extinction Agenda". - In truth the name just sounded cool when I put it together heh ;) i like the black falcon color scheme but the white and silver just doesnt work for me (i know it fits the fluff, the white falcon imagery, and everything. i just dont care for it.) While I can agree it doesn't look great on the painter images, it does lose the metalic pop that you get when you paint it onto actual models. What about it bothers you personally? What happened to the White Falcon's fleet? Did the Black Falcons destroy it along with their monestary? If they did they'd of been stuck on their world forever... During the invasion the fleet and a small detachment of Marines (1 Company) was tasked with engaging the enemies fleet. They managed to destroy and/or drive off the enemy ships around the same time the massacre started. The Marines on board the ships suffered from the rage just as much as those planetside and went rampaging through their own ship's halls slaughtering servitors, Chapter Serfs and each other. At the end of it no-one was left alive on any of the ships, and they sat dormant until the Chapter had rebuilt it numbers, the ships were then repaired, cleaned and repainted in the new colours. What is iniation into the Black Falcons like? How do you get new recruits to have the same outlook as those who actually went through and overcame the rage? Is there much of a gap in beliefs between the Old White/Black Falcons and the new Black Falcon recruits? New recruits are bound, blindfolded and gagged through the first portion of testing, spending the majority of the time in fear and places of total darkness. Many tend to die of shock during this period. If any make it through this period with their sanity intact they are brought before the Chaplains to be spiritually tested, if they go insane they are lobotomised and turned into servitors. Right after a recruit gains his new organs they undergo the final test, and are brought before the Librarians who put the memories of invasion and the massacre into their minds which brings on the rage, the recruits must then defeat the rage in the same way that those who originally suffered it did. After this the memories of the after events are implanted in the the recruits, including the almost destruction of the Chapter, the repainting of the armour and the years of toil to rebuild the Fortress Monastery. This leaves them with the same mindset as those who actually went through the events. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 I guess Octavulg gave up... Octavulg decided he ought to study for his finals and perhaps do some of his overdue essays. I'll be back eventually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 I guess Octavulg gave up... Octavulg decided he ought to study for his finals and perhaps do some of his overdue essays. :P I'll be back eventually. Ah yes school work. I'm so glad I don't have to do crap like that anymore... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubernator Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 I guess Octavulg gave up... Octavulg decided he ought to study for his finals and perhaps do some of his overdue essays. :D I'll be back eventually. Ah yes school work. I'm so glad I don't have to do crap like that anymore... Lucky devils... ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Kids, when did the Bolter and Chainsword become a chat room? I must have missed that memo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Asmodius Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 It's an outside name tagged to the organization by the Inquisitor who first encountered it Alright that makes more since. What about it bothers you personally? The fact that your chapter chose to paint their armor white when they live on a twilight world. Where they would really stand out whether it was dark or not. If Xeskis was like Valhalla and covered in snow, then the color scheme would make since. But painting your armor white while living on a twilight world just doesn't work for me. im not asking you to change it as it fits the white knight defending the people image and they are based off the "white" falcons of the planet. Thats just why i dont like it. small detachment of Marines (1 Company) Small detachment of 1st company or the 1st company was the small detachment? Either way how much of a 1st Company do the Black Falcons have? New recruits are bound, blindfolded and gagged through the first portion of testing, spending the majority of the time in fear and places of total darkness. Why put them in places of total darkness if they are blindfolded? Other than that slight redundancy i really like the iniation process. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 What about it bothers you personally? The fact that your chapter chose to paint their armor white when they live on a twilight world. Where they would really stand out whether it was dark or not. If Xeskis was like Valhalla and covered in snow, then the color scheme would make since. But painting your armor white while living on a twilight world just doesn't work for me. im not asking you to change it as it fits the white knight defending the people image and they are based off the "white" falcons of the planet. Thats just why i dont like it. What I mean by twilight world is that it doesn't have sun light from it's local sun. What the planet does have is an energized atmostphere in which radition pumped out by the dark star reacts with the gases in the atmostphere creating light with the brightness of a sunrise / sunset all the time (ie no true day or dark periods). small detachment of Marines (1 Company) Small detachment of 1st company or the 1st company was the small detachment? Either way how much of a 1st Company do the Black Falcons have? One Company (which is the detachment) of Marines not the 1st "Veteran" Company but rather the 6th Company. New recruits are bound, blindfolded and gagged through the first portion of testing, spending the majority of the time in fear and places of total darkness. Why put them in places of total darkness if they are blindfolded? Other than that slight redundancy i really like the iniation process. They wore the blindfolds only when they were out of the holding cells. Kids, when did the Bolter and Chainsword become a chat room? I must have missed that memo. If it were a chat room discussions would be held in realtime, and who you calling "kid"! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Asmodius Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Well its looking pretty good then. If i find anything else ill let you know. keep up the good work heru Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrus Manus Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Looking good Heru! Im looking forward to seeing this completed, some good original ideas! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1548823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 Looking good Heru! Im looking forward to seeing this completed, some good original ideas! You'll probably have a long wait, translating the whole bit about changing the name into the IA and still keeping the energy seems to be an impossible task that consistantly gives the whole "brain rot" feeling... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1550765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 I'll be back eventually. Liar, liar pants on fire. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/110032-ia-black-falcons/page/2/#findComment-1658445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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