Codex Chaos space marine Q&A

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

The page that has the Khorne Bezerkers, do they have bolters as well as pistols and CCWs?

 

As said no Bolter. But nothing stoping you from give a normal squad IoK give you some bolter... but there not fearless & no WS bonous.

 

IP

[ZONKEY]

So what is the benifit from having the Icon of Khorne then

[Night Stalker]

+1 attack for cheap. hope this helps

[AdolfHammond]

Remember that if the Icon bearer is killed, the squad looses the benefit...

 

Its nice to be able to take both "iconed" marines (who get a set benefit) or more expensive and spceialised "cult" marines - giving a lot more potential variety in nicely themed armies.

[minigun762]

people keep mentioning the icon bearer being killed, but really how many units out there can target a non IC character? 2, 3 maybe?

 

Thats like saying you shouldn't use a power fist champ because he might be killed.

I think the benefit far outweighs the minor risk. This is even more true if you're using the cheaper Icons like Chaos Glory.

[Bloodwave]

I guess that the idea behind some of the rules is to encourage (not to say force) players to use larger squads.

 

- The icons have a fixed cost, so, they get cheaper if you benefit more CSM with them.Also, in a larger unit it would be more difficult to single out the icon bearer through torrent or LOS sniping.

 

- Add to that the heavy/2nd special weapon only if the unit is 10 guys or more.

[minigun762]

I guess that the idea behind some of the rules is to encourage (not to say force) players to use larger squads.

 

- The icons have a fixed cost, so, they get cheaper if you benefit more CSM with them.Also, in a larger unit it would be more difficult to single out the icon bearer through torrent or LOS sniping.

 

- Add to that the heavy/2nd special weapon only if the unit is 10 guys or more.

 

 

Well I think thats just a move away from the 6 man las/plas squads.

I never liked the idea that you have a troop choice whose only job is to fire a heavy weapon and maybe a special weapon.

Those weapons SUPPORT the marines, they don't define them.

 

The strength of the marine is in his bolter and his armor, get him in a big enough unit and rip apart the enemy with shooty death or charge the fools with a chainsword.

[Playa]

Hey,

 

I never liked the idea that you have a troop choice whose only job is to fire a heavy weapon and maybe a special weapon

 

Oh? Like Havoks? None of us got a vote, anyway - Gav/Alessio 2, Everyone Else 0 . . .

 

Those weapons SUPPORT the marines, they don't define them

 

Well, they pretty much define the Firebase. Marines are defined variably from player to player.

 

The strength of the marine is in his bolter and his armor, get him in a big enough unit and rip apart the enemy with shooty death or charge the fools with a chainsword

 

Um, okay. But an army is more than a just a horde of Rifle Infantry with fixed bayonets.

Even a Marine army. And especially a Chaos Marine army.

I prefer my Chaos armies infinitely malleable. YMMV.

 

 

Playa

[Playa]

Hey,

 

termies can now weild combi-plasmas

 

I've been told that CombiPlas isn't mentioned anywhere in the new Dex.

Could you cite a page ref to support that statement? Thanks.

 

 

Playa

[BloodRed]

It's right in the description of Combi-Weapon in the wargear section-- p 83

 

The problem with the squad being there just to deliver plasma shots or a power fist is a problem more with the rules than with the army lists-- most importantly, the AP rule. If 40k had an armor modifier system like WFB (and 2nd ed 40k), this would be far less of an issue. The basic bolter was such a good weapon back then-- I think you could always shoot once to 24" if you moved and it was S4 but that gave a -1 to the save roll. Lascannons, Powerfists and all that were still very important, but the squad wasn't simply about that one guy.

[Vilicate]

OKay, i've got a question:

 

Did they change the points cost on a regular marine? If so, to make them equal to regular marines or more?

 

Thanks.

[Night Stalker]

bolters are still great weapons

 

save modifiers were awful - heavy infantry should be able to march without cover - as it is described in fluff.

 

problem lies here: many people play heavy infantry (not your primary bolter target)

 

try playing with guard or eldars - they drop like flies :sweat:

[Murrburger]

CSMs are the same price as normal marines. Pretty much they exchange ATSKNF for a cc weapon and some other crap.

[BloodRed]

There's definitely a better way (increase the Marine's toughness?), but without someting like them, the AP system makes low AP weapons more important than the entire squad carrying them. People make squads that are entirely about delivering that power fist into close combat. The outnumbering rules help, but I think that some sort of minor save modifier system combined with a combat resolution thing like WFB where you could lose the combat even though you inflicted more wounds would help with that.

 

We'd have to make it work in the current edition, just porting in 2nd ed mechanics or WFB mechanics likely wouldn't work.

 

Anyway, this thread isn't about speculating on what might make the rules better. The point simply was, and I agree, that one good thing about the new batch of codexes is that they get ever so slightly away from the special/heavy weapon delivery system problem that is so prevalent in marines and chaos.

[Megalodon]

Yeah, save modifiers are awful :sweat: , they have only worked for WFB for something like 30 years. <_<

 

I don't like how the AP system currently works, it is not a bad idea but it could be tons better.

[BoonKin]

Hey mates I am not a chaos player, but i want to ask this: can the Alpha Legion take daemon princes/spawns ?

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Hey mates I am not a chaos player, but i want to ask this: can the Alpha Legion take daemon princes/spawns ?

 

They could alway take Daemon Prince & alway can. As for spawn, as said many time on fourm there are no legion rules so evrething & anything can be taken like Daemon units in IW armies, Oblits in Death Guards.

 

IP

[Megalodon]

Yeah, you gots'a love the unrestricted balance of the new Codex. :teehee:

[BoonKin]

Well I might convert into chaos if fate allows me :teehee:

[styx]

Remember that if the Icon bearer is killed, the squad looses the benefit...

 

Its nice to be able to take both "iconed" marines (who get a set benefit) or more expensive and spceialised "cult" marines - giving a lot more potential variety in nicely themed armies.

 

 

The answer is all....

First, both Hunters have the Vindicare, second Eldar has Mind War, third Dark Angels can take the special character with Mind Worm...

 

Now, how can all of them do this? Read your shooting rules...pure and simple, I hit and cause enough wounds, I can pick one model for you to make a specific save against, you can pick what so you can avoid instant kill/high AP weapons...but in any case, roll that 1 or 2...*POP*

[Stella Cadente]

The answer is all....

First, both Hunters have the Vindicare, second Eldar has Mind War, third Dark Angels can take the special character with Mind Worm...

 

the great thing is I know nobody who has ever used or had to fight a vindicare, nobody takes mind war, Ezekiel never uses mind worm so your icon bearer is quite safe from them, plus if the enemy is concentrating all his efforts on killing 1 man in each squad, then you still have 9 men left to whack the enemy in the face :D

 

Now, how can all of them do this? Read your shooting rules...pure and simple, I hit and cause enough wounds, I can pick one model for you to make a specific save against, you can pick what so you can avoid instant kill/high AP weapons...but in any case, roll that 1 or 2...*POP*

 

for large units its gonna be VERY rare you make that happen, and in the heat of battle it is a rule that is forgotten quite often

[the jeske]

people keep mentioning the icon bearer being killed, but really how many units out there can target a non IC character? 2, 3 maybe?

 

Thats like saying you shouldn't use a power fist champ because he might be killed.

I think the benefit far outweighs the minor risk. This is even more true if you're using the cheaper Icons like Chaos Glory.

 

against sm ? with rhino snipeing etc ? you lose one or two on first turn , if he can see them. armies that can shot a lot will force you to make the first save on the icon etc .

[BrainFireBob]

Color me unimpressed, but realistically, that icon bearer isn't going to bite it any more often due to Torrent of Fire than the Aspiring Champion typically does. It's a bogeyman, extremely rare.

[the jeske]

hey people adviced to put the icon on the champion here . also in hth against i5 and higer units he is going to die a lot to [specialy if they are all powerweapon or rending].

[BrainFireBob]

Which aren't units the Marked marines should be facing in hTh anyway, making the vulnerability of the Mark a moot point.