The newest Chaos codex

[Brother Nihm]

I know everyone lost something from the new codex but i have seen it in action a couple of times (GW staff playing each other) and i think it is actually a very good codex. it is balanced (finally) and takes skill to use.

 

though i still dont see why there is such an outrage at the "lash of submission" power, it seems like a good power but its not exactly game winning :)

Recipe for cheesecake:

Take 2 Princes with Lash.

 

Decided on which enemy unit that you want destroyed.

Lash twice and move them (18" is easily doable)

For added hurt, move them through difficult terrain.

Carefully place his models.

Use LOS to isolate critical units (Powerfist wielders, Librarians etc.)

Kill the model before they can strike back (initiative 6)

 

Sit back and listen to the cries of cheese from your opponent. :)

 

Rinse and repeat.

[Penmarch']

Exactly! There's a few more winning combinations from Hell in this so-called 'balanced' Codex.

 

Problem is you can only do it once. Next time you'll have a hard time finding opponents. Except in tournaments of course.

 

Now, please don't whinge too much about this. GW might hear it and nerf this too.

[Ceres]

Muaha.

 

Hopefully they nerf that too! I could hear a lot more moaning coming from you chaos players! Ah, how I enjoy the every moment of your torment! Chaos gods are flicker my dears and you haven't been of worthy of their aid and now your codex is totally NERFED! CRY CAUSE OF YOUR PAIN ! ! BUAHAHAHAHAH ! ! !

 

On the other, a Mighty Champion like me will surely lead my oh-so-shiny Thousand Sons to the battle again, gaining the Favor of Gods! DIE YOU MAGGOTS! FOR THE CHANGE IS AT HAND!

 

 

... and something like that. I don't really find anything that negative on the codex, just the players. Have had some really fun games lately with the new dex. Totally able to compete, but 100 times more fun!

 

(.. specially when watching all this moan coming around.)

[El Magnifico]

I know everyone lost something from the new codex but i have seen it in action a couple of times (GW staff playing each other) and i think it is actually a very good codex. it is balanced (finally) and takes skill to use.

 

though i still dont see why there is such an outrage at the "lash of submission" power, it seems like a good power but its not exactly game winning :unsure:

Recipe for cheesecake:

Take 2 Princes with Lash.

 

Decided on which enemy unit that you want destroyed.

Lash twice and move them (18" is easily doable)

For added hurt, move them through difficult terrain.

Carefully place his models.

Use LOS to isolate critical units (Powerfist wielders, Librarians etc.)

Kill the model before they can strike back (initiative 6)

 

Sit back and listen to the cries of cheese from your opponent. :P

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

and how did you get those princes in range without being shot to pieces or leaving them on their own (in full LOS of the enemy) in the middle of the board :rolleyes:

 

 

the power has its uses, it is not game winning.

 

 

im sure any gaunt horde player would not be impressed if i too brother captain stern, a GK Grand Master and gave one of them a retinue. 3 castings of holocaust spells doom for any horde but is the power beardy - NO!!!!

 

your lash will do nothing to guard - who cares if you remove one unit of say - 10 guardsmen.

 

tyranids care little, if you move them closer to you, all the tyranid player has to do is move back into synapse range (bearing in mind that the warp blast has the same range as the lash)

 

tau it could be troublesome for - if you diddnt need LOS. a battlesuit is not going to care about you (and and consequently shoot you to hell) and firewarriors are cheap as chips for their equipment.

 

Daemonhunters wont like you but every single GK has a psychic hood (effectively) so your power wont work as often as you'd like

 

Witch hunters (sisters i mean) will ignore 1/3 of all your attempts

 

marines yes are pretty boned by this ability (no-one takes librarians anymore)

 

eldar runes will annoy you, they give you a 50% chance of getting perils of the warp. and most eldar are fast/powerful enough to avoid you anyway

 

dark eldar will laugh at your daemon prince (probably before he even gets to use the power)

 

orks it would be very damaging to if you keep moving them away from you

 

 

 

 

basically it is a one trick pony concealed by a model that can always be targetted and has a short range power

[Brother Nihm]

and how did you get those princes in range without being shot to pieces or leaving them on their own (in full LOS of the enemy) in the middle of the board :pinch:

Deploy behind a building, move when it's your turn and lash? It's even better if you get first turn.

 

the power has its uses, it is not game winning.

Have you even tried fielding the above? I have, it is game winning (the only armies which stood a chance was 'Nids and Eldar)

 

 

im sure any gaunt horde player would not be impressed if i too brother captain stern, a GK Grand Master and gave one of them a retinue. 3 castings of holocaust spells doom for any horde but is the power beardy - NO!!!!

Holocaust has nothing to do with Lash of Submission, the lash basically takes away the control of units.

 

your lash will do nothing to guard - who cares if you remove one unit of say - 10 guardsmen.

So, clumping guard units together for a little Vindicator+Defiler action will do 'nothing'?

 

tyranids care little, if you move them closer to you, all the tyranid player has to do is move back into synapse range (bearing in mind that the warp blast has the same range as the lash)

Then move them away from you. The Shadow of The Warp did pose problems at one point though.

 

tau it could be troublesome for - if you diddnt need LOS. a battlesuit is not going to care about you (and and consequently shoot you to hell) and firewarriors are cheap as chips for their equipment.

It's funny you say that, locking the frontline in CC (blocking LOS) and lashing his suits out in the open (princes can and should have wings :D) worked wonders for me.

 

Daemonhunters wont like you but every single GK has a psychic hood (effectively) so your power wont work as often as you'd like

 

Witch hunters (sisters i mean) will ignore 1/3 of all your attempts

True, but no one plays GK around here so I can't really give any feedback on that.

 

marines yes are pretty boned by this ability (no-one takes librarians anymore)

They do here, all the time. Still, a 1/3 chance to prevent the lash (and there's 2) is decent at best.

 

eldar runes will annoy you, they give you a 50% chance of getting perils of the warp. and most eldar are fast/powerful enough to avoid you anyway

They will always pose a problem for me, regardless of my list. ;)

 

dark eldar will laugh at your daemon prince (probably before he even gets to use the power)

I'm the only DE player here, yet I don't really see how another DE player would 'laugh' at my princes as I can negate that which is most important to the DE, namely mobility.

 

orks it would be very damaging to if you keep moving them away from you

How so?

 

basically it is a one trick pony concealed by a model that can always be targetted and has a short range power

Two models, as stated earlier, and in say a Gamma mission I won't have any problems reaching the entire board with wings.

 

 

In my opinion, it's broken.

Stay tuned for more testing. :P

[El Magnifico]

try going to a tournament with your lash strategy.

 

last tournament i went to, 90% of armies were fully mechanised.

 

 

but anyway, i still maintain that the power is not broken (at the very least to an experienced player). you have been lucky with it (and most likely skillful as well - but luck would be a factor)

 

 

i used the holocaust reference because against certain opponents/lists the power can be considered "beardy", this is the same for the lash of submission.

 

 

please dont get me wrong, i know the power is awesome and is well worth its points (what - 150+ on a prince) but i would never base a strategy around it because there are so many things that can go wrong.

 

 

and having seen the "warp time" prince in action against orks - id vote for him :pinch:

[Brother Nihm]

Warp time was actually the next thing I wanted to try. :pinch:

[El Magnifico]

Warp time was actually the next thing I wanted to try. :pinch:

 

it scares even the likes of me (being the dehity that i am :D) a ton more than the lash of submission :P

[PanzerSmurf]

Well, it's kinda like veil of time, only less to reroll :pinch:

[Penmarch']

How does Warptime work exactly? Does it mean that if the sorcerer succeeds, the entire amy gets a re-roll for each attack that turn?

[the jeske]

lol . no just he . if it work on the whole army it would have a cost of 750 pts.

[lospantalones]

Personally I'm glad that you can no longer make a high stat beast of a daemon prince because hey, is a 20ft tall 10,000 year old half daemon half genetically augmented super warrior really all that strong? I however was surprised to see that they nerfed the fluffy bunny unit i mean WHAT WAS GW THINKING fluffy bunnies should be at LEAST ws 5 str 7 and toughness 5.

 

seriously though thanks gw for turning my beloved lord into a one trick pony of doom

[Penmarch']

My sorcerer is a she. ;)

[Lord Humongous]

"...used at the start of any players turn. ... the psycher may re-roll all rolls to hit and rolls to wound..."

 

Lightning claws and re-roll misses, basically.

 

Seems silly to me that Khorne characters can use it. But no, apparently the only folks who can be that good at HtH are the ones who study arcane books, rather than the ones who's god is a direct manifestation of martial prowess. Really, would it be so absurd to say that a Khorne DP can have that ONE option? No sire, because its "magic". You know, unlike, say, deamons, or teleportation, or icons...

[Lexington]

I think GW should have given the original legions SOMETHING, ANYTHING to say "Hey you ARE different than a renegade force that turned to Chaos last week".

Well, sure, and as far as the background's concerned, they do have all of that - Reaper Autocannons, Combi-Bolters, Combi/Power Weapon-wielding Terminators, Dreadnoughts that have lost their sanity due to thousands of years trapped in a hellish undeath, etc. The Chaos Codex has been a Traitor Legion list since 2nd Edition, and this new one's no different. The Design Studio just happened to slap a lot of Renegade fluff into the Codex which, when attached to the actual army list contained within, doesn't make any freakin' sense.

 

Really, the Reaper Autocannon hasn't been in use for nearly ten thousand years - some dinky renegade Chapter isn't going to have stockpiles lying around for when they run out of Assault Cannon ammo. :D

[RogueSangre]

|You get your choice for renegades, recent succession= C:SM, long-ago = C:CSM, not seeing a problem there

[Lexington]

|You get your choice for renegades, recent succession= C:SM, long-ago = C:CSM, not seeing a problem there

Well, I'm pretty sure that Assault Cannons, Whirlwinds, Razorbacks and other sorts of things became commonplace not too long after the Heresy. So, the window for "Chaos Codex" post-Heresy Renegades is fairly small, if not entirely nonexistent.

 

Really, if they wanted to make a Renegades-style Chaos Codex, they should've dropped a "buy post-Heresy equipment at 150% of the cost" option into the Codex, a'la 2nd Edition. However, they didn't, and so what we have is a Traitor Legions Codex with Renegades-based fluff.

 

I want to like this Codex. Lots of good moves in the army list, wonderful new Lord & Terminator models, and the fact that, like it or not, I'm stuck with it for the next four to six years. It's just a really poorly-thought out book, and I can't pretend otherwise.

[ZONKEY]

Why can't we just make the best of what we have with the new dex ?

[Maeklos]

Why can't we just make the best of what we have with the new dex ?

 

We definitely can. You can build a massively powerful, well-nigh-unbeatable army with the new Chaos 'dex. Just look at the batreps popping up on the site. So far, I've read, what, 3 wins? All were hands-down slaughters, pretty much. You could chalk it up to the fact that people just aren't used to facing the new 'dex yet...but I don't recall BA and DA having that sterling of a reputation from the get-go.

 

The problem is that the new 'dex was supposed to cut down on cheese while being uberfluffy.

Instead:

 

-Armies can now be EVEN CHEESIER/BEARDIER/DEADLIER than in the last 'dex. Without being a one-trick pony, mind.

 

-While the new codex is definitely stuffed with fluff (from what I've heard), the ability to build fluff-related armies is gone. Completely. Sure, you can paint up an army in the colours of the World Eaters or the Death Guard, but they're not World Eaters or Death Guard, anymore than vanilla Marines (without any Traits, mind) painted black are Black Templars or red ones are Blood Angels. Or green ones with some bone-white Terminators are Dark Angels with Deathwing.

 

-Some of the options are totally overpowered or completely underpowered, but generally nonsensical. What's the point of a Khorne daemon weapon if, overall, the lord will do better either as an Undivided Lord with a Daemon Weapon or taking twin Lightning Claws instead?

 

-The options provided don't make sense for ANYTHING...as everyone has pointed out, the Heresy-era Legions have been neutered. They are gone, completely, aside from having one specialist Troops choice. But the flavor of the upgrades and weapons available to the list are suitable to these guys...despite the fact that the new 'dex is supposed to cater to the newer, current-era renegades. Where's all their post-Heresy-era Space Marine kit? Land Speeders? Assault Cannons? Razorbacks? Whirlwinds? Techmarines? Apothecaries? Chaplains?

 

All-in-all, this codex is an asshat grab-bag of crap that gets out a viable, powerful, and playable army...but it's not really Chaos in any form.

[Lexington]

-While the new codex is definitely stuffed with fluff (from what I've heard), the ability to build fluff-related armies is gone. Completely.

Meh, I'd say it's back, really. The post-IA Article/3.5 Codex armies were the ones that took away the ability to build fluff-based armies, by stratifying each Legion down to have a "custom" tactic or unit, and making dodgy, halfwitted changes to the background to accompany them (Word Bearers love Daemons now, despite that never being mentioned before!). Now all those rules and background bits are gone, and players can play the Legions as they were originally written - as characterful, useful armies that might play in a certian style, but whose main differences reside in color scheme and background info that has no impact on the battlefield.

 

(okay, maybe I'm being a little facetious here, but man were those IA article rules/background inserts dumb sometimes. :()

[Penmarch']

-While the new codex is definitely stuffed with fluff (from what I've heard), the ability to build fluff-related armies is gone. Completely.

Meh, I'd say it's back, really. The post-IA Article/3.5 Codex armies were the ones that took away the ability to build fluff-based armies, by stratifying each Legion down to have a "custom" tactic or unit, and making dodgy, halfwitted changes to the background to accompany them (Word Bearers love Daemons now, despite that never being mentioned before!). Now all those rules and background bits are gone, and players can play the Legions as they were originally written - as characterful, useful armies that might play in a certian style, but whose main differences reside in color scheme and background info that has no impact on the battlefield.

 

(okay, maybe I'm being a little facetious here, but man were those IA article rules/background inserts dumb sometimes. <_<)

 

Yes, but most people liked them, and that's what counts.

 

However, in common with most major companies Gw doesn't care a whoot about their existing customers. It's new blood they want and these have to be pampered until they are ... customers....

A book that was recently published - in my country at least- is all about the way companies look at their existing customer base. Freely translated it's called Damn*** Customers.

 

Remember, a potential customer is a guy with YOUR money in HIS pocket. Once you've got that money he shouldn't interest you anymore because all he has left is some change. Go for the next kill.

[AkiraCho]

yes, thats something we must all remember, GW isnt here to be our friend, they are here for our money, buisness is buisness as usual.

 

as for the dual prince list i keep seeing about, that costs alot of points and now you have 2 big targets who people want dead for points, its a risk.

[Lord Humongous]

Indeed. Two Slaneeshi sorcerers (with bikes or jump packs, or even just riding in rhinos) backed up by a decent number of bodies (probably in rhinos) seems a better deal. That's what i plan od doing for my "World Eaters"; they basically will be my old army with berserkers in rhinos, berserker raptors, and lots of deamons- but now lead by a couple of Slanesh sorcerers instead of a super-unkillable flying deamon prince who really only served as a summoning focus, distraction, and tank / devastator hunter. Heck, the DP might even get a new bit on his helmet. Followers of Slaneesh like red, black, and gold- don't they? Sure they do...

 

"Get OVER here! (smashing sounds)"

[Black and White]

yes, thats something we must all remember, GW isnt here to be our friend, they are here for our money, buisness is buisness as usual.

 

as for the dual prince list i keep seeing about, that costs alot of points and now you have 2 big targets who people want dead for points, its a risk.

 

 

Not really. That setup is only 155 points. So for the deuce its 310 points. If your list is set up right, if the prices take alot of power and die, your army should be in position to assault after then anyways, so the lash isnt needed. Any army who can wipe out 8 T5 3+/5+ unistakillable wounds from across the table is probably shooty stanced. Against an assault army, no worries really. Marine chaplains run around that range, same with their librarians.

 

If you're really worried about it, a sorc on bike with LoT costs exactly the same as a flying price, and can't be shot out due to being an IC.

[Humakt]

Just had my first game with the new codex. Thought it was pretty good, although I have lost my 2 favorite combos (possesed dreadnought with basphemous rune and a tank hunter squad in a rhino with 2 melta guns) I still manage to get a very workable force. I need to retune it, and my Slaaneshy Raptors came a croper against his death company when I failed to get the slaahesh power to work (probably my only really poor roll), all in all it was entertaining.

 

Thinking of taking a demon prince for the first time just to scare opponents a bit, but I'll see. All in all I prefer the new codex.

 

I would like to point out that although I did win hands down, I had unbelievable luck. I managed to kill every vehicle I fired at with the first shot, except a drop pod, forced an assult squad to break off the board and he failed a last man standing with a devastator who ran away screaming to his mum. Both our commanders were pretty rubbish hitting and wounding 4 times between us in about full turns of combat.