The newest Chaos codex

[Maeklos]

Khornate chainaxes were 1 point, and came on a Str 4 WS4 T4 3+ save body- much better than a slugga boy.

 

By much better, do you mean something that's worth 4 or 5 times the cost of a slugga boy?

 

Point is, IW players are moaning about losing their bassies, not that they have all three fast attacks now and that's so unfluffy.

 

Went back over the first three or four pages of this discussion and didn't find a single person complaining about Iron Warriors missing basilisks. Care to point one out?

 

Alpha Legion players are screaming about losing infiltration and cultists- not about being able to take extra marks.

 

It's the advantages being waved as what's lost.

 

If Alphans are complaining about the loss of niche units and abilities while overlooking advantages, it SHOULD make you think that they wanted those said niche units and abilities for some reason OTHER than "powergaming".

[BrotherHostower]

Losing your Icon bearer and not having someone pick up the icon is just as probable as losing your plasma gunner, or lascannon toting marine in a squad or your aspiring champion.

 

Chaos is vindictive, spiteful, and petty. Believe all you want, worship all you want, if you let that icon drop or get damaged, poof, the god pulls its favor. That's actually PRO-fluff.

 

Slaanesh Lords leading Khorne berserkers? Yes, it does happen in Fantasy. It happens in some 40k as well (kharne fights for whoever he wants, whenever he wants). If Abbaddon says, hey, Lucius, you take those world eaters over and beat that planet, do they object? No, they do it, cause Darth Abbaddon is nominally in charge.

[Belger31]

Getting tired of hearing this repeated by ignorant non-Chaos players whenever someone brings up a FLUFF reason why they dislike the new codex. It's stupid. The complete and cheesy exploitiveness of the new codex has already been proven. Powergamers will find the new 'dex an even easier beast to cudgel into broken, non-losing armies. So give it up already, stug.

 

I am a chaos player. Whether or not I'm ignorant is up for discussion, I guess. I'm also a DA player who has already faced the music and seen that it's not all that bad. Besides you're going to have to play this new codex no matter what I say. I'm just trying to help you realize that the sky isn't falling. You just need to suck it up and learn to live outside your comfort zone.

[pyroguy]

DP != chaplain. I don't see how you can stretch this. DPs are not especially fanatical. I don't see them with rosarius' or giving squad's re-rolls, leadership boosts, or anything of the type. A DP is simply a chaos champion who has won enough favour from the gods to be granted deamonhood.

 

I explained that I'm not making direct comparisons already. I'm just saying that they are comparable units whether you wish to accept that or not.

 

If they're going to pull this renegades crap (they really SHOULD be based of C:SM) instead of the legions, then they SHOULD by all means have that equipment. Having newly turned marines running around withheresy era equipment (likely manufactured thousands of years before their creation) is moronical at best, especially considering how they had better equipment to begin with.

 

Gee, for a bunch of people who complain that they're not unique enough, you sure do complain about not having the exact same things as C:SM players do. No they should not have that equipment. For multiple reasons.

 

1) From a game play perspective, it would unbalance the game. Chaos would be far more flexible than Imperial marines. I'm sure you understand this and are just choosing to ignore it.

2) Some of this equipment just isn't chaos' style. Examples:

- Whirlwinds are not up close and personal enough for chaos. Vindicators I can see.

- Land Speeders could have many explanations. They are too maintenance heavy. Not enough tech priests to justify maintaining a fleet of them. This weapons can not sufficiently strike fear into an enemy. The gods provide reasonable substitutes.

- Meltas and flamers are preferred at short range over assault cannons. They too are maintenance heavy. Besides, before 4th edition nobody was complaining about this because AC's were junk.

3) Players are pouting because they don't like the new codex and are trying to find a way to invalidate it.

 

HEAR HEAR!

 

I really dont feel sorry for those that are complaining right now. The ONLY people I do feel sorry for are those that converted up sonic weapons on everyone, as I said before, but thats it. It doesn't really matter if the codex isn't perfect. Chaos are by a long way the most diverse army that GW has ever developed, and the last codex dealt with that quite well, but the fact is, as with all codexes, it had flaws, a lot in this case, and even so, if the game stayed the same forever, I think that we would all get very bored. anyway.

 

And as for the renegades, if you think that you need speeders and multi meltas etc, then just find your nearest GW stockist, and buy a space marine codex, you may well find the rules in there.

 

And if you want the best of both worlds, get over it and remeber it will probably NEVER happen.

[Excarnificator]

Slaanesh Lords leading Khorne berserkers? Yes, it does happen in Fantasy. It happens in some 40k as well (kharne fights for whoever he wants, whenever he wants). If Abbaddon says, hey, Lucius, you take those world eaters over and beat that planet, do they object? No, they do it, cause Darth Abbaddon is nominally in charge.

 

I'll have to read that somewhere before I believe it (could be CS Goto, though... :confused: ) And the reason they'll do what Abbie says is that he's marked for greatness by all the gods. By Chaos undivided. Just like Archaon in Fantasy. And chaos undivided can/could use marked troops as elite choices, just not mix and match them ACCORDING TO WHAT WOULD GIVE THE MOST BENEFICIAL BONUS. Slaanesh and Khorne followers would let go at each other more eager than Orks whenever they got the chance. Ever heard of Skalathrax in the fluff. No? Look it up.

 

The whole things just smacks of a watered down version of Dawn of war. (which is a good game per se, but that's another story...)

 

/Cheers

[BrainFireBob]

Khornate chainaxes were 1 point, and came on a Str 4 WS4 T4 3+ save body- much better than a slugga boy.

 

By much better, do you mean something that's worth 4 or 5 times the cost of a slugga boy?

 

Point is, IW players are moaning about losing their bassies, not that they have all three fast attacks now and that's so unfluffy.

 

Went back over the first three or four pages of this discussion and didn't find a single person complaining about Iron Warriors missing basilisks. Care to point one out?

 

Alpha Legion players are screaming about losing infiltration and cultists- not about being able to take extra marks.

 

It's the advantages being waved as what's lost.

 

If Alphans are complaining about the loss of niche units and abilities while overlooking advantages, it SHOULD make you think that they wanted those said niche units and abilities for some reason OTHER than "powergaming".

 

 

Look, bucko. Someone was asserting that there's no reason for people upset over the new codex being labelled as bemoaning their special advantages. That's willful blindness, which I was pointing out. Either it's the advantages being missed, in which case face being called on it, or it's a piss-poor blind phrasing that needs to be considered, and then dealt with.

 

And in this thread, I neither noticed nor cared whether there was an IW player moaning his bassie. There's plenty of such posts and even threads on every major 40K forum- including this one.

 

And to the gent bemoaning how he can't field a legal plaguemarine army- yes you can. The criterion for legality has changed.

[Belger31]

Sure, I can have troops. But: I can't have termies, havocs, chosen, any kind of HQ choice, any daemons..... I don't care about winning (much), but it would be nice to have a legal plaguemarine army. With nurgle daemons.

Without buying a second codex.

 

You can have all of the above. They just don't have special nurgle specific rules. Nobody says you can't paint those units, or any other units Deathguard colors and field them. If you fail to see that, then you are exposing yourself as somone who cares more about the advantages you used to get from playing DG than the "fluff" behind DG.

[Tokunator]

I am sorry to see that this thread has degenerated more and more into whinging, name-calling and the repetition of the same tedious arguments. So I will just add my own two euro cents to the discussion, hopefully convincing some players to see it from a different way. And yes, I have 3000 points of Iron Warriors and 2000 of Alpha Legion (including 40 converted cultists), so I am not a complete noob to Chaos

 

First of all, the argument about the Renegades and their equipment is silly. As a person with some mechanical and military experience, I can tell you that the more sophisticated a piece of equipment gets, the more likely it is to break down if not maintained properly. Especially rotative cannons. So it stands to reason that the renegades would replace their equipment with more reliable equipment and if you compare an assault cannon with an autocannon, you can see that the trade-off is reliability for rate of fire. So it could be that the Techmarines would look into their archives and decide to adapt the older and more reliable model if the new one is no longer viable due to jamming and lack of ammo. The Speeder argument was mentioned already. Likewise, twin-linked bolters would be a more reliable version of the stormbolter.

In game terms, you can't expect GW to give you the same equipment as the regular marines AND special chaos equipment, can you? This would be really open to abuse and definitely not in the interest of balanced gaming.

 

Which brings us to that second dark horse, balanced gaming. The old list was too powerful, period. The new list might allow some abuses (Lash...) but it is more balanced and Lash can be countered by Runes of Warding, Psychic Hoods etc. whereas (for example) the old quasi-unkillable Daemon Princes or the 4 IW pie plates couldn't. Chess is such a challenging game because it is balanced, so anything that balances 40k should be welcomed.

 

 

Then the loss of the legion powers. The marked Legions (EC; DG; WE; TS) might be unable to field Terminators etc. but you can still paint them in the Legion colours and with an Icon of that god, so what's the deal? Who is going to stop you from giving your Lord the Mark of Nurgle and calling him a Captain of the Death Guard? The Icon rule might blow, but it's not legion specific.

The Word Bearers and Black Legion are hardly affected and the Iron Warriors deserved a lowering of the power level. The Night Lords lose one weak Veteran Skill and gain cheaper Raptors. You can argue that this is a loss of flavour, but you can still play with lots of Raptors to show your allegiance.

So only the Alpha Legion lose a colourful unit, but again, as an Legionnaire, I can tell you that an all infiltrating force is downright abusive and stupidly powerful (right, I get to pick where to deploy my whole army after seeing where you stand, possibly in charge range and without giving you a chance to react to my deployment for 1 point per model, sounds a bit too good doesn't it?), so it might help gaming balance.

 

Lastly, the codex isn't even out yet. Play a couple of games with it, look at the rules etc and then you might voice some criticism, but starting to whinge now is just plain ridiculous.

[Brother Glacius]

***** wow, I didn't realize chaos players were so unimaginative.

 

1) Lack of flavor - you must be kidding right. Have you seen the chaos models? have you seen the various options in terms of units? Honestly, no matter how much you say "flavor" what you mean is "special rules". You can build a list and model flavor into it so that its the most nurgle-riffic list in the whole world. You don't need one bit of special rules to make it so.

 

2) "old fluff says this" - news flash! GW writes the fluff. So if they want to change it..they can. Second news flash, chaos has been running around fighting with and against each other ever since they were created by GW. yes, there are rivalries, but do you think a powerful chaos lord can't get slaneesh and khorne followers to fight together? Please. GW has never supported ultimate extremes like you are suggesting. You can't sit there and say "well this fluff says this" and then ignore all the other fluff that GW has put out that supports the other side of the arguement.

 

3) icons - ever read the fluff about the power of chaos being a bit limited? Things like deamons only able to spawn on a world after rituals and such took place to strengthen the flow of chaos? I have. Now imagine that the icon is a focus for the power of chaos. Further expand your thinking to see that the "gift" the gods are bestowing on their followers is limited. GW has changed the rules to say that Marked marines only gain their gifts while near the presence of the proper icon. If it goes away, so does the focus for the power of chaos, and poof go the gifts. Wow....and it even fits with the fluff. But that would require the use of imagination...can't have any of that can we?

 

If you whiners put half of the effort you are using for ranting, into some constructive thinking about how to adapt your army, you might actually find that everything isn't so bad as you thought. But no, instead you want to rant and rave and end up with nothing but bitterness for all your work.

 

***** Brother Glacius

[Dam13n]

Right... A post with no whinging... here we go.

 

I have 2500+ pts of world eaters... I understand the complaints of WE players. However the way I see it is where as before my 'zerkers had +1 attack, Blood Rage and Khornate Chain Axes. Blood Rage was rubbish, my 'zerkers spent the game playing chase the landspeeder, grrrr.... Seeing as the "limited to 4+ save" rule is going (orks won't get it either I'll bet) I lose that too, OK. The upside:

I get WS 5 (so will generally hit on a 3+) I get +1 attack still, I get Furious Charge (so will usually strike first at S 5) so my 4 attacks on the charge per 'zerker hit on 3's, wound on 3's (against T4, it's 2's vs T3 or lower) and, this means I'll be forcing my opponent to make more armour saves, so

(s)he'll fail more (hopefully). So I'm still happy there then...

I can now take khornate raptors (jumps for joy) whoever determined that an assault specific army couldn't take them (in the old codex) must have been beaten with the "dense stick" I can even take khornate havoks, with 4 flamers!!! bye bye hordes. Transports are cheaper (yay).

OK 'zerker termies don't get WS 5 and furious charge, ooh bummer [/sarcasm]... THEY COST 30 PTS, HAVE POWER WEAPONS AND A 2+ ARMOUR SAVE... cut your complaining, they're great. Besides can you see a terminator being "skilled" in combat... I see them as lumbering brutes who plow through enemies relentlessly... They couldn't get up enough speed for a "furious charge" either, so I consider it fluffy.

 

The ONLY thing that bothers me is the random possessed ability... but even so I would be happy to play with them, as a bit of randomness adds a little bit of unpredictability, which is fine, and in a friendly game, quite good fun.

 

I didn't use daemons so couldn't care less about the prodigeous nerf. When the daemon codex comes out (with plastic daemons [/hoping and praying]) I will enjoy adding them as a seperate

"detachment" to my army.

 

Remember (as I leave you (for now)) that ALL the codexes are going this way. Once they're all done many of the niggles that are annoying players now will be nullified, as there should be less exploitative lists, so fairer, more balanced games. Oh, and victories will come down to tactical ability rather than "who has the cheesiest list"... I'm sure that will scare the "tournament gits" a little.

 

Laterz...

[Excarnificator]

I do not have the codex, but I do like some of the things I read about it and dislike other things I read about it. Having said that I'd like to give my view on these points.

 

Honestly, no matter how much you say "flavor" what you mean is "special rules".

 

When I write "flavour" I mean "flavour". If this flavour is a small special rule, WHICH NEED NOT BE ADVANTAGEOUS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY WAS EXCESSIVELY SO IN SOME CASES IN THE PREVIOUS CODEX, then so be it. I (and most of my opponents) do have the ability to handle and remember a weapons stat for an accursed crozius (cheesy?), which never won a battle by itself. And guess what, that small piece added "flavour".

 

"old fluff says this" - news flash! GW writes the fluff. So if they want to change it..they can. Second news flash, chaos has been running around fighting with and against each other ever since they were created by GW. yes, there are rivalries, but do you think a powerful chaos lord can't get slaneesh and khorne followers to fight together? Please. GW has never supported ultimate extremes like you are suggesting. You can't sit there and say "well this fluff says this" and then ignore all the other fluff that GW has put out that supports the other side of the arguement.

 

Yes they write the fluff, and guess what, some of it I don't like! Imagine if Ultras suddenly could take Necron Lords as generals, would you say "Just paint him up in blue and he's ready to go, don't be a whiner, adapt or die!"? And when you write that GW never has supported "ultimate extremes" you mean exactly what? Look at the 3.5 chaos codex for instance, or the current fantasy chaos. Or, for that part any of the previous chaos codexes. Followers of the different chaos gods never really got along well unless lead by someone like Abbie (which is pretty unique in the galaxy). It is not extreme and it never was. You can write those simple rules down on less than 1/4 of a page.

I'm a bit curious about this "other fluff" that supposedly supports the other side, though. Slaanesh daemon princes leading berserkers and whatnots. Care to cite some examples?

My point is that some play the game because of the background and the models, not for the 5 star smooth gaming system. And to see that background honoured counts for something. At least for some players.

 

I can accept the icon rule allright though, seems logical.

 

But no, instead you want to rant and rave and end up with nothing but bitterness for all your work.

 

We wouldn't be true chaos players if we weren't bitter and spiteful, right ;)

 

/Cheers

[victorybyattrition]

And of course, the way the new marks work is just stupid.

 

"Right, I've got this banner that gives us the blessing of nurgle for today, chaps, just don't drop it..."

"Why, sarge?"

"Coz I don't want to die of the pox when you get killed, is why..."

 

Oh dear..

 

Basically, the whole Icon/mark system is a pathetic joke that goes against all the fluff established in the GW pantheon. Even in fantasy, which is obviously the inspiration for it, is the banner bearer dies his mate pick it up. No such joys here... each unit now has the equivalent of an army standard in its midst. Now, it appears that if you kill the banner bearer (honoured by a god, a worshipper of the god, fanatical enough to carry his gods mark) and he gets himself killed, his mates (just as fanatical, just as devoted, carrying the same mark) can't pick up the totem of their own god and as a result lose their gods favour?! :rolleyes:

 

Do keep in mind that this is an abstract combat system, simplifying what really happens in this situation. What you see is not always what is happening

 

You get to pick who dies first. Realistically, this is explained as 'THE BANNERS DOWN!! PICK IT UP AND KEEP MOVING!!!'. It also explains why devastators keep their heavy weapons for so long; one of the other troops picks it up and keeps firing.

[victorybyattrition]

What really bugs me is the reports on mix 'n match marked units. Show me the powergamer who won't drool over a unit that combines the cc abilities of Khorne with the psychic abilities of Slaanesh. Quite possible to have with the new codex, from what I understand. So, it could well be that those who applaud the death of all us "cheese mongering straight out evil powergamers" that obviously makes up chaos players :rolleyes: might find even more powergamers playing chaos, as the list seems even more easily abusive. And less flavourful to boot.

 

Being tedious (and still haven't read the new codex) I'll quote myself here. The problem isn't the lack of advantageous rules, but the lack of flavour (read: fluff adherence) while still having a powergamer list.

 

To clarify. In the fluff some of the chaos gods followers are bitter enemies and won't fight together. This dates back to 1988 and has been an integral part of the fluff. Now this has all been thrown out the door. With the new codex you can mix'n match how you please. And if you powergame you'll optimize your troops in an unfluffy way, Slaanesh prince and Khorne troops for instance. This is what I bemoan. A list which is exploitable and unfluffy at the same time. Not the loss of "special rules" to make me "feel special" and "fulfill my enormous desire to win at all costs".

 

FYI, The fantasy Chaos codex manages to adhere to this fluff tradition with rules written on less than 1/4 page.

 

What I do like is the focus on renegades, though. It'll be interesting when the codex arrives...

 

/Cheers

 

For one, it's chaos. Things change, as can the fluff (which hasn't been advanced in HOW long??). Abbadon possesses a mark that is an amalgam of all the others. He is favored by all the gods, yet has avoided being completely manipulated by any of them. He very well could get differeing factions to work together, if only for limited engagements (given the Warp, that can be a long time).

 

Second, mixing factions isn't nessecarily a guaranteed winning option. Look to the eldar aspects. They still requires a plan and co-ordination to make the army work. Simply throwing them out into the field and relying on their advantage won't help you. In this regard, multi-faction armies will be harder to play with than those that focus on a single god.

 

Let the codex play itself out before we start making accusations folks.

[Brother Glacius]

***** @Excarnificator

 

I'll tell you what, you provide me with the references where it says that a slaanesh DP never ever ever led berserkers, and then I'll believe you. :rolleyes:

 

GW doesn't work in extremes like that..its too limiting. They will never say that a Nurgle Lord can't ever have tzeench guys following him. Does it happen often? I'm sure not likely, but CSM's do follow a chain of command, they do follow orders. Think of it this way, what better suicide troops for a Slaanesh lord than beserkers? If they die, who cares...bonus in fact. Again, use the old imagination. Its not hard to find a reasonable background to support what the rules allow.

 

***** Brother G.

[Excarnificator]

I'll tell you what, you provide me with the references where it says that a slaanesh DP never ever ever led berserkers, and then I'll believe you. :rolleyes:

 

The 3.5 (i.e. current until the new codex is available) Codex Chaos. And all codexes before that. It's ruleswise impossible. A rule that was founded upon, you guessed it, fluff.

 

GW doesn't work in extremes like that..its too limiting. They will never say that a Nurgle Lord can't ever have tzeench guys following him. Does it happen often? I'm sure not likely, but CSM's do follow a chain of command, they do follow orders. Think of it this way, what better suicide troops for a Slaanesh lord than beserkers? If they die, who cares...bonus in fact. Again, use the old imagination. Its not hard to find a reasonable background to support what the rules allow.

 

Sure, once in blue moon. Perhaps. But this god rivalry isn't extreme. In the fluff it explains why chaos (like orks) are more prone to fight each other and cannot coordinate themselves enough to annihilate the Imperium. Unless they have someone of Abbadon or Horus's calibre to unite them. Perhaps I've got the imagination of a dinosaur. But I still don't want to see each and every Ultramarine army led by Necrons or Hivetyrants painted blue. Or Khorn zerkers led by Lucius.

 

@victorybyattrition: "Second, mixing factions isn't nessecarily a guaranteed winning option. Look to the eldar aspects. They still requires a plan and co-ordination to make the army work. Simply throwing them out into the field and relying on their advantage won't help you. In this regard, multi-faction armies will be harder to play with than those that focus on a single god."

 

I really do feel a bit reluctant basing all my arguments on all this hearsay. But what I don't like is the reports of the Lash (a Slaneeshi thing for characters/princes) being so effective in assault. Because what are the ultimate assault troops? Zerkers. So, the Slaaneshi daemon prince with zerkers becomes a no-brainer. A no-brainer becomes standard. I.e. the game more or less has Slaanesh leading zerkers as standard. As of today, August 16th, in the fluff Slaanesh does not like Khorne. Game does not match fluff. Excarnificators head hurts.

 

But I like the new models! And are nevertheless nurturing plans for a renegade army.

 

/Cheers

[Maladon]

I give this thread two maybe three more pages, before it gets closed!

[AkiraCho]

Excarnificator you make me giggle, and i agree with you too maladon this will most likely be closed in a few pages.

 

the fact of the matter is that the new chaos codex is just too stream lined then most of us are used to, im not saying that the codex is back it just takes away alot of the FLAVOR of the army, and it forces us to make too much use of the imagination and what not example "ok these devestators are now death guard plague marines with heavy bolters, the reason they dont have feel no pain but the troops do is because, they missed a meal yesterday, a very off day"

 

true khorne didnt get hit very hard. but now is see that alot of people have more options then they wanted, like over coming restrictions and discovering victory was the most fun part of the game, where i could laugh and joke with other death guard players who feel the same way as i did when we came up with new and interesting strats to over come our special weapons problem, now i can just say, ya know what, im gonna field a few random heavy weapons here and there, true its not fluffy but its in the codex!!!

 

..... pew pew

[Stella Cadente]

Gav has really failed to deliver on this in the new CSM codex. The list has 5 or 6 no brainer choices

 

Lash/Wing Demon Price

Chosen

Cult Marines

Termies

Oblits

Vinicators

Raptors

 

I REALLY do not understand why these are called No brainers? hmm lemme see

 

Lash/Wing Demon Price - will I take 1? HELL NO

Chosen - will I take them? HELL NO

Cult Marines - will I take them? HELL NO

Termies - will I take them? only 5

Oblits - will I take them? only 3

Vinicators - will I take 1? HELL NO

Raptors - will I take them? Most likely no

 

YEAH there real no brainers ain't they :cuss

 

The rest of the units are poor by comparision

 

The Chaos lord with no retinue

The spawn with random movement and no armour save

The generic demons with only 2 weak attacks and no weapons

The Dreadnought that cant choose what it shoots at

The possessed, who roll for their special ability after deployment

The havocs, whos heavy weapons are so eye-wateringly expensive you will never take them

The bikers with only one attack

 

Hmm now lemme review these so called "poor comparison" units

 

The Chaos lord with no retinue - DUH stick him in your terminators

The spawn with random movement and no armour save - yeah ok these do suck

The generic demons with only 2 weak attacks and no weapons - brilliant, I'll take 15 please

The Dreadnought that cant choose what it shoots at - yeah it can, should I shoot at that enemy unit or that one, of course it depends on weather I get fire frenzy, but I still have a choice

The possessed, who roll for their special ability after deployment - Brilliant, brings some random CHAOS to CHAOS, sign me up for a group of 10 please

The havocs, whos heavy weapons are so eye-wateringly expensive you will never take them - HAHA actually I'm taking 4 autocannons, devvies and havocs will and should always have more exspensive weaponry

The bikers with only one attack - Thats ok they now have 2 CCW's, so there exactly the same as before, and better than loyalist bikers

 

You lot have been thoroughly stitched.

 

Oh no we haven't, its just people who can't be bothered to change

 

and this isn't a personnel attack at you, its just yours was the post I noticed saying what others say.........although they really have no just cause to say it

[Brother Pete]

@Stella Cadente

 

You may decide against taking the lasher prince or the Chosen but many other players won't.

 

You may not mind rolling the scout ability for your posessed after deployment but other players will.

 

You should not be comparing the new Codex with the 3rd edition book, you should be holding it to the standard of the 4th ed books which have been on the whole, pretty good.

 

The lack of internal balance and the inclusion of ridiculous stuff like the lash are just signs of lazyness and poor playtesting. GW may not care because "its all about the miniatures" but I do.

[Stella Cadente]

You should not be comparing the new Codex with the 3rd edition book, you should be holding it to the standard of the 4th ed books which have been on the whole, pretty good.

 

All the newer codex's DA, BA, and now chaos are fantastic (except of course for 1 or 2 tiny things here and there), I don't like to compare between editions, its just many on here have, and its the only way to now get a point across, unfortunatly.

 

The lack of internal balance and the inclusion of ridiculous stuff like the lash are just signs of lazyness and poor playtesting. GW may not care because "its all about the miniatures" but I do.

 

this is GW, what did you expect :teehee:

[Brother Pete]

All the newer codex's DA, BA, and now chaos are fantastic (except of course for 1 or 2 tiny things here and there),

 

Tried to sneak that one in there diddnt you!

 

I have had a good look through the dex and discussed it with other players. I dont think the design problems are small, especially when so much detail has been removed (it should have been easier).

 

I suppose this years GT and a few pickup games will tell us how many players have been seduced by the dark price!

[Stella Cadente]

All the newer codex's DA, BA, and now chaos are fantastic (except of course for 1 or 2 tiny things here and there),

 

Tried to sneak that one in there diddnt you!

 

its only tiny things really, a couple of wording issues and printing errors, like rending DC, cheesy mepthi, assault squad troops, you know those tiny printing errors :)

[Gree]

The Chaos lord with no retinue - DUH stick him in your terminators

 

 

You lot have been thoroughly stitched.

 

Oh no we haven't, its just people who can't be bothered to change

 

and this isn't a personnel attack at you, its just yours was the post I noticed saying what others say.........although they really have no just cause to say it

 

This is funny.

 

What are you going to do? Have him walk the enitre board expsoed to enemy fire? Termie armor can only take so many lascannons ans missle launchers before rollling a one.

 

Deep Strike? You can't, with no retinue he deep strikes alone and exposed. The only viable was to use him is to join the termie sin the first turn and go into the land raider.

[Stella Cadente]

This is funny.

 

What are you going to do? Have him walk the enitre board expsoed to enemy fire? Termie armor can only take so many lascannons ans missle launchers before rollling a one.

 

Umm actually........yes, he will walk with the other 40 chaos marines+Close combat dread+defiler+10possessed+anything else I take, if he dies oh well, I still have 40 chaos marines+Close combat dread+defiler+10possessed+anything else I take left for you to kill, hahaha, waste all your power on my commander, see if I care

[DARKTROOPER]

My biggest complaint is they didn't intergrate the LaTD list in the book, it was like :cuss?!? Why not? My list hasn't changed too much, my lord is no longer super domstat but my terminators are way more killy. I'm not crazy about the list but we'll get along...