Chaos vs. Tau

[Cypher_the_fallen]

A friend of mine has a tau army and he gets a crushing vicory every time against me. He has 1 hammerhead, 2 devilfishes, 2 broadsides (with sheild drones, those things really piss me off), 2 crisis battlesuits, 1 shas o', 2 squads of fire warriors, and a squad of kroot. I dont i should have a land raider in a 1000 point game cuz he kill it with either the hammerhead or the stupid broadsides. My marines do okay against his fire warriors exept fire warriors have a really long range. The thing that bugs me the most is how he takes his crisis suits or shas o' andflies over the wall there hiding behind, shoots at me, and then in the assault phase he can fly back over the wall again and i cant shoot him. I wish i could blast the darn wall out of the way with my land raider!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :D :P (if its not already dead) i think that i need another big target like a predator for my land raider to be effective. That way all of his firepower isnt going to one target. If anyone knows any good strategies against a tau army like his it would be great. thanks

[Stella Cadente]

what exactly does he take? if he uses the most common variations of units then he is over 1000pts

 

and you take a land raider in 1000pts and your considering adding ANOTHER tanks??????????? thats pure madness, its extremely rare anyone taking a land raider in even 1500pts never mind 1000pts

 

what exactly is your 1000pts list and his 1000pts list, that would be helpful

[Cypher_the_fallen]

yeah i know having a land raider in a 1000 point game is completely insane :) but i just started playing chaos a couple months ago, i think in june, so i dont have very many units yet. Ill get the boxed army when it comes but anyway my list is:

 

HQ: Chaos Lord w/ deamonic flight

HQ: Chaos Sorcerer lord w/ flight, doombolt, wind of chaos

Elite: 6 possesed marines

Elite: 2 oblits

Troop: 6 marines

Troop: 6 marines w/ plasma rifle and meltagun

Troop: 6 marines w/ autocannon

Heavy Support: Land raider w/ Havoc launcher :teehee:

 

I know it probably sucks, but i dont really know what im doing so. My friend's list i pretty much said in my first post im not sure all the extra weapons and stuff he has tho.

[Stella Cadente]

HQ: Chaos Lord w/ deamonic flight

HQ: Chaos Sorcerer lord w/ flight, doombolt, wind of chaos

Elite: 6 possesed marines

Elite: 2 oblits

Troop: 6 marines

Troop: 6 marines w/ plasma rifle and meltagun

Troop: 6 marines w/ autocannon

Heavy Support: Land raider w/ Havoc launcher :devil:

 

the main problem I can see is allot of points put into singular units

 

I would go with one or the other, but not both in 1000pts, its too much, and you don't need it

I would also consider dropping the possessed in 1000pts, again its allot of points for a small point game

:rolleyes: I would reorganize the troops so each one has a weapon, you have 1 unit with 2 specials and the other with nothing, split the specials between them so there harder to take out in 1 go, also I would consider making the units bigger, or taking more units

and you know what I would say about the land raider, dump it for a pred or more anti tank based troops

 

I know it probably sucks, but i dont really know what im doing so. My friend's list i pretty much said in my first post im not sure all the extra weapons and stuff he has tho.

 

like I said, IF your "friend" is taking the most common weapon combinations in his units, then he is over the points limit by 50-70pts, thats a whole broadside hes getting there

[Cypher_the_fallen]

i think i wanted another unit of something or other that was like 60 or 70 points over 1000 so i let him have another a squad of kroot i think. but thanks for the advice. Next time ill crush him (hopefully) I dont have very many models, like i said i just started chaos, so right now i dont have very many marines, but next time ill just substitute LOTR figures for marines. Thanks

[Wildfire]

Tanks vs. tau is a bad idea. If you must have tanks, you can take two preds for the price of your landraider.

[Cypher_the_fallen]

Yeah i learned that you can have one big target. Because then he just fires all his firepower on that one target. And, like in my case, 280 pts did nothing the whole game and got wiped out before my first turn! :rolleyes: Next time i wont have any tanks. I wont be able to get even one predator for a while though cuz i just spent about $300 on warhammer (army and a few other things)

[khalaek]

here's a little advice for playing against tau.

 

1. i'm gonna give you he same advice i gave the last guy who wanted help with his chaos list: wait 'til you have the new 'dex before adding or taking anything from your list, because you have no idea what changes have been made as far as points/organization are concerned.

 

2. big squads vs. tau (especially your buddy's list)= good (actually, great). when you can, make the squads bigger (even if that means fewer squads, aka the LR)

 

3. unless your possessed also have flight, ditch them, they cost too much, and the points could be better spent on more men (corrupted, debased men). if they do have flight, keep the sorcerer (see #4), and stick to cover while the squad makes it way towards the tau lines, then strike like Zeus' lightning!

 

4. ditch the lord. in 1,000 pt games he's just a waste of points, but the sorcerer seems like he should be devestating.

 

5. trade the oblits for termies with at least one reaper autocannon and at least one chainfist. deep strike them in the middle of the tau firing lines, preferrably behind their tanks, and blow the @#$% out of 'em the turn the squad arrives. after that, charge everything armored that you can, and watch the look of horror on your buddy's face as his precious tanks/broadsides go POOF!

 

6. if you haven't figured it out, ditch the LR against tau. it's too easy to kill and gives up too many points

 

7. when the new list comes out, i suggest taking spawn. they're cheap (80 pts. for two from what i can tell), they're VERY powerful against infantry/light vehicles(/crisis suits :devil: ), and for psychology alone they're worth it, because tau can't hope to face off against a unit that can potentially charge them on the first turn (supposedly they can get 24" a turn)

 

8. take a unit with a mark (icon in the new 'dex), preferrably nurgle (tougher) or khorne (potentially faster, and hell to face in CC). trust me on this.

 

9. give basic troops (actually, all your Troops choices, unless it has a mark other than nurgle) lascannons and plasma guns, and keep them in cover where they can snipe 'suits and tanks, shoot at infantry that gets close, and have some measure of cover against return fire.

 

10. if you ABSOLUTELY have to takes vehicles, maybe invest in vindicator or two, and move up the flanks with them until they are in range (using cover as much as possible), and blow the bejesus out of the nearest target, reposition to fire at the nearest target, blow them back to T'au, rinse, and repeat :devil:

 

11. if you do end up keeping the oblits (since you should have a lot of points left over by now), use the same strategy as the termies.

 

12. remember, your units can't be shot at if they can't be seen. so keep out of LoS until you're ready to strike.

 

13. run-down of target priority:

 

-possesed/sorcerer- infantry. dont bother with anything else (maybe suits, but your better off sticking with infantry)

-termies/oblits- suits, then tanks. since the suits can easily reposition to hide from the heavies, they HAVE to die first. the only exception to this would be if you can't see them, in which case you should move on to nearby armor

-your infantry- armor, then infantry (or suits, if your buddy gets stupid with them)

-spawn- infantry, unless you can reach the suits. armor goes last, as it will be the most difficult to destory

-unit w/ mark of khorne (if taken)- same as spawn

-vindicators (if taken)- anything in range!!! seriously, these bad boys can take on any target with relative ease

 

14. keep a cool head AT ALL TIMES. the number one thing that happens when people play against tau is that, when the tau start shooting, the player loses his cool and starts making stupid mistakes that lose him the game. don't let those big guns and cheesy rules/tactics get to you, and at least you can claim a moral victory if things don't go your way.

 

WOW, that was a lot to say (now i know how Wilson felt when he wrote his Fourteen Points!!!) :rolleyes:

 

hope that helps, and may the gods favor you!

Khalaek

Lord Blitzkrieg

[mukluk]

Challenge your friend to a 750 point game, and then drop the LR from your list (at least until you get more models).

[Velict]

The key to keeping that Land Raider alive is to keep him out of LOS from the Tau player's Hammerhead (or Broadside team) as much as possible, staying hull down when you cannot. He can't return fire with Railguns very easily, so either have him move across the board while staying out of LOS and danger, or just use him to destroy Battlesuit teams as they come into range.

[Leethal]

My first opponent was Tau much like your friends list except he runs 1500, and I really dont think your friends list is 1k. Seriously.

 

I played him with Old school Khorne, run straight at the enemy style. It is important to keep a level head, I don't know if you can still deepstrike Oblits, but DS them around turn 3. If you have termies, slap on autoreaper, if Khornate Termies, one thing I saw so far was giving them combi-flamers and some more pyro lover the Heavy. Strangely enough, fire warriors can't stand up to fire. Try to work around prioritizing.

 

I usually went Termies can own all of his units, if given the correct loadout and dropped in at the right moment. Oblits pretty much follow the same plan. I CAN'T really help you on how you move your infantry, as I just usually went "Screw Cover! CHARGE!" Course that usually explains why they had a 10% survival rate. But use cover and ranged weaponry to the best of your abilities. Vechiles tend to go down hard, escpically against Railguns, one useful counter I discovered was, not to have any vechiles, since you can use Havocs, use havocs. That way you can out shoot him in overpowered weapons, and the whole squad can't be squashed like your Land Raider.

 

Maybe Nurgle Raptors would be useful as well. They are virtually flying terminators :D

 

Deepstriking is your friend. His firing line will be screwed up, espically with Terminators running amok with flamers and combi's. and under that screen of death, move all of your infantry forward into cover as best as possible. Its what I usually did against Tau.

[anggrath the unbound]

if you play on tables with lots of terrain i would take some raptors they can hop behind cover then to behind the next piece in front then backing a final braeak for his battle lines fust keep out of LOS.

REMEMBER tau suck at combat

 

--anggrath--

[PanzerSmurf]

A landraider in 1000 points, against tau, heavy with rail weaponry... Don't do that! Seriously! My advice is troops, more troops, and more troops, preferably all with rhino's, that swamps his antitank abilities. For heavy firepower, obliterators and havocks! Havocks are golden!

[vanish]

how many kroot does he have?

 

my advice would be to deepstrike/inflitrate as many units as possible, my worst fear as a tau player are drop pod marines!

 

totally negates my leet guns and plays on my worst trait, close combat...fire warriors are WORSE than imperial guardsmen in cc

 

and yeah, tanks vs tau = bad

[kingblkgrunt]

in all honesty i used to have the hardest time with tau.then i discovered death guard t5 with and extra 4+ feel no pain save if they fail theyre regular save will keep your troop squads together against the toughest things any army can throw. like these guys are saying Los has to do with everything. also if you get fabius bile and use his enhanced warriors ability ona full squad of khorne berserkers with a champion that has a beat fist...i mean power fist and move from cover to cover the second they get into close combat hes done for theres nothing he could possibly doive see that combo tear tau players to shreds.also typhus with a 10 strong termy body guard with champion all armed with a pair of lightning claws ok thats a possiblity of 42 power attacks a turn 32 of which get to reroll wounds and the 10 of which being a daemon weapon that can instant kill any model it wounds by taking a psyker test. and on top of that durring the shooting phase even when in close combat typhus has nurgles rot which means every unit within 6'' of him takes a strength 4 hit thats nasty in a can

[Reclusiarch Darius]

A friend of mine has a tau army and he gets a crushing vicory every time against me. He has 1 hammerhead, 2 devilfishes, 2 broadsides (with sheild drones, those things really piss me off), 2 crisis battlesuits, 1 shas o', 2 squads of fire warriors, and a squad of kroot. I dont i should have a land raider in a 1000 point game cuz he kill it with either the hammerhead or the stupid broadsides. My marines do okay against his fire warriors exept fire warriors have a really long range. The thing that bugs me the most is how he takes his crisis suits or shas o' andflies over the wall there hiding behind, shoots at me, and then in the assault phase he can fly back over the wall again and i cant shoot him. I wish i could blast the darn wall out of the way with my land raider!!!!!!!!!!!!! verymad.gif verymad.gif verymad.gif (if its not already dead) i think that i need another big target like a predator for my land raider to be effective. That way all of his firepower isnt going to one target. If anyone knows any good strategies against a tau army like his it would be great. thanks

 

His list isn't really that scary. I'm a Tau player, and thats honestly not the worst we can do. I'll go unit by unit;

 

Hammerheads; Meltaguns are key here. The reason is that outside of 12", he has a constant 4+ cover save from disruption pods (which cost next to nothing, so they're practically standard equipment these days). However, meltaguns (especially within 6") ignore this (maximum range is 12" anyway), and all of your melta weaponry is mounted on fast-moving units.

You've got two modes of delivery; a Deepstrike (Oblits) or a rapid assault deep inside his DZ (turbo-boosting Nurgle Bikers). Both of these platforms are tough and fast, and can box in his Railheads quite effectively. If you go the Oblit way, be sure to support with Icons (you may need their fire support elsewhere). The Nurgle Bikers you can largely point n click; they're tough as hell (T6, 3+ cover/3+ armour) and they can catch his skimmers.

To draw his railgun fire, use a Daemon Prince or two. Their Eternal Warrior status and god-like close-combat ability will send him into a panic, which means more Rhinos reach his lines.

 

Broadsides; Same as above. In addition, they also die horribly in close-combat, so Bikers, mechanised CSM's and Beserkers are all great options. A few powerfist wounds quickly despatch them, as will a Daemon Prince.

 

Devilfish: He's going for a mechanised force, so destroy his mobility. The above advice can apply here, but I would simply match like with like. Your CSM's should be mechanised and with dual meltaguns; simply drive up and annhilate his Devilfish (pop the top hatch though, the stranded FW's still have bite with rapid-firing pulse rifles).

Your other option is autocannon-wielding Havoks. They can pump out enough S7 shots to disable Devilfish.

 

XV8's; The shield drones are attached, so I'll deal with them both here. The easiest way to remove the drones is to pile on the wounds. Flinging a few lascannons/meltaguns at the unit won't kill them; you need to unload a bucket of dice on them.

Chosen plasma/meltaguns (take the full 5, get close and unload), Terminator combi-plasma, Obliterator plasma guns; all of these are excellent ways to deal with XV8's. The other way is to attack them in close-combat; mechanised CMS's and Beserkers can catch them and demolish them, and with good Deepstrike positioning you can also send Terminators after them. Daemon Prince will also catch+kill XV8's with ease.

 

Fire Warriors; Close-combat. Don't get stuck into a shooting match with these guys, they will chip away at your Chaos Marines until they're dead, finishing off the remnants with a Kroot charge or XV8 support. Bum-rush the Rhinos at him, disembark the unit behind the Rhino. Next turn, emerge from behind, shoot him with bolt pistol+combi-flamer and then charge him (you have frags so cover doesn't help him at all).

 

Kroot; Flamers, rapid-fire also kills them pretty fast. They can annoying tarpit your Chaos Marines for a turn, to allow his FW's to reposition; blow away the Kroot with Havoks (heh, autocannons...) or Obliterators (mmm, twin-linked flamers....I feel like chicken tonight!)

 

5. trade the oblits for termies with at least one reaper autocannon and at least one chainfist. deep strike them in the middle of the tau firing lines, preferrably behind their tanks, and blow the @#$% out of 'em the turn the squad arrives. after that, charge everything armored that you can, and watch the look of horror on your buddy's face as his precious tanks/broadsides go POOF!

 

Thats really bad advice. Woot, 2 autocannon shells after landing! Then the rest of his army repositions, and rapid-fires/railguns the crap out of you, before surrounding your Terminators with Kroot to prevent them assaulting. You won't reach close-combat with his skimmers to use the chainfist, they're all moving 12" a turn and shooting you with multi-trackers.

Combi-plasma will annhilate his Broadsides/XV8's a lot more effectively, and a squad powerfist is sufficient. For the squad heavy weapon, a heavy flamer is fantastic (you'll annhilate his infantry with ease).

 

6. if you haven't figured it out, ditch the LR against tau. it's too easy to kill and gives up too many points

 

Chaos Landraider is worthless to begin with. Against Tau (especially a multi-railgun list), it's totally screwed.

7. when the new list comes out, i suggest taking spawn. they're cheap (80 pts. for two from what i can tell), they're VERY powerful against infantry/light vehicles(/crisis suits devil.gif ), and for psychology alone they're worth it, because tau can't hope to face off against a unit that can potentially charge them on the first turn (supposedly they can get 24" a turn)

 

Er, they give up free KP's, have no save (except maybe cover) and are SLOW. Tau will use them to get their eye in (and get a few KP's for no effort) while your main assault moves into range. Don't do it; you need those points on useful things and wargear.

 

8. take a unit with a mark (icon in the new 'dex), preferrably nurgle (tougher) or khorne (potentially faster, and hell to face in CC). trust me on this.

 

Icon's are completely dependant on the unit using them;

 

Chaos Marines; Icon of Glory, every day. Re-rolling Leadership on your only scoring units is critical to prevent them running off objectives. It also prevent them losing combat (and thus getting Sweeping Advanced), although thats not too important against Tau usually (unless he brings Farsight or something). If you wanna make him cry, you could take Icon of Khorne....although you'll feel a bit dirty when you pick up that small bucket of dice for close-combat.

 

Bikers; Nurgle, every day of the week. 5-man squad, two meltaguns, maybe a powerfist Champ if points allow. Turbo that into enemy lines, laugh as rounds deflect off their 3+/3+ defences or fail to wound their T6 hides. Mmmm, a duel-wielding meltagun Carnifex that moves 24" a turn and has 18" assault range....good times

 

Terminators; Its a toss-up between Tzeentch or Slannesh. On the one hand, unkillable Terminators (oh, no 2+ save? I've got 4+ invul), on the other, I5 Terminators (heh, you go 2nd, now eat lightning claws). I usually go Slannesh (although it's probably unecessary against Tau), if you see him putting plasma rifles on his XV8's bring the Tzeentch Icon. To prevent S5 gankage (they will get ganked hard by his rapid-fire+various burst cannons on the skimmers and XV8's), Nurgle isn't a bad choice against Tau (they drop to wounding on 4+, not 3+ like normal, which reduces the probability of rolling that 1 for an armour save).

 

9. give basic troops (actually, all your Troops choices, unless it has a mark other than nurgle) lascannons and plasma guns, and keep them in cover where they can snipe 'suits and tanks, shoot at infantry that gets close, and have some measure of cover against return fire.

 

This is possibly the worst idea against Tau. They're a SHOOTY ARMY, their forte is gunning you down faster than you can return the favour. Never get into a shooting match (especially considering your inherent advantages in close-combat, namely that Chaos Marines eat FW's). A mechanised assault is the best strategy; you'll trap him, overtax his anti-armour with smoke-protected Rhinos (on a 4+ his shot does nothing, excellent against such a one-hit wonder like a railgun), then kill everything in close-combat. For his tanks, use melta weaponry delivered by Deepstrike/turbo-boost.

10. if you ABSOLUTELY have to takes vehicles, maybe invest in vindicator or two, and move up the flanks with them until they are in range (using cover as much as possible), and blow the bejesus out of the nearest target, reposition to fire at the nearest target, blow them back to T'au, rinse, and repeat devil.gif

 

You're theoretical Vindicator won't live that long, it will get ganked by railguns Turn 1. Again, don't get into a shooting match; get in his face with meltaguns and blow him away. Anyway, if you want ordnance support, Defiler is pretty good (same range as railgun, Defiler ignores minor damage pretty well, and he's able to assault things if need be), however I think he'll still die to railguns.

 

12. remember, your units can't be shot at if they can't be seen. so keep out of LoS until you're ready to strike.

 

True LOS makes this next to impossible. Also, cowering in cover is what he wants you to do. Instead, be aggressive and give him about 1-2 turns to shoot your legs off. If he fails (which, with good timing and enough units you can achieve), you'll eat his Troops in close-combat and then he's down to tanks, which you have mobile meltaguns for.

 

cheesy rules/tactics

 

There's nothing in the Tau army list that can be called 'cheesy' or 'overpowered' ; they're a shooting army with some unique abilites, but they're really glass cannons in many ways. Also you're playing Chaos, which is a by-word for 'broken' and 'cheesy'. Expect him to be complaining about you're units :D .