Horus Rising Question

[Tybrus]

I was rereading Horus Rising again and I got to the point after the battles of Murder when Sanginus and Hours are talking with Little hours and Loken and Hours Talks about theings the Emperor told him.

 

They talk about the 20 Signs of Astrology (I only know of 12) and how someday 1 primarch would be for each of the Signs.

 

So my questions are

1) What are all 20 signs?

2) And Which Primarchs would be which sign?

 

The book says the Hours is Saggitarius

 

I am going to go out on a limb and say The Lion is Leo but what does everyone think about the others. I am not into astrology at all so don't know anything much about it, but I thought the qoute was intresting from the book.

 

So What are your thoguhts... and if you can help fill me in on why you think the way you do all the better.

 

The 12 signs I found on the net were

 

Aquarius

Aries

Cancer

Capricorn

Gemini

Leo

Libra

Pisces

Saggitarius

Scorpio

Taurus

Virgo

[The Iterator]

If I had to guess, and it is a guess cos I have quite limited knowledge I would like to say Angron would be Aries as Aries is the god of war and is full of rage, fury and wrath, However In "Fulgrim" Vespasian tells Julius that Ferrus Manus reminds him so much of Horus as they both come from worlds that "Hamer the soul with fire" this could point to the fact that they both represent the fire signs one of which being Sagitarius the other two being Leo and Aries. I couldnt even hazard a guess at the others cos I dont really know anything at all about them. There is only 12 traditonal astrology signs though so Im confused about where the other 8 come from, (Perhaps some more will crop up in the next 28,000 years)

[Brother Adeon]

The Chinese zodiac has different animals than our traditional indo-european one to represent the months, I don't know if the signs correspond to the same constellations or not. That may be something to read up on. Wikipedia has a few great articles but I don't have the time to read them now. If the two zodiacs almost correspond then the ones that don't might make up the other 8 signs.

[eyeslikethunder]

I was rereading Horus Rising again and I got to the point after the battles of Murder when Sanginus and Hours are talking with Little hours and Loken and Hours Talks about theings the Emperor told him.

 

They talk about the 20 Signs of Astrology (I only know of 12) and how someday 1 primarch would be for each of the Signs.

 

So my questions are

1) What are all 20 signs?

2) And Which Primarchs would be which sign?

 

The book says the Hours is Saggitarius

 

I am going to go out on a limb and say The Lion is Leo but what does everyone think about the others. I am not into astrology at all so don't know anything much about it, but I thought the qoute was intresting from the book.

 

So What are your thoguhts... and if you can help fill me in on why you think the way you do all the better.

 

The 12 signs I found on the net were

 

Aquarius

Aries

Cancer

Capricorn

Gemini

Leo

Libra

Pisces

Saggitarius

Scorpio

Taurus

Virgo

 

Aquarius

Aries Angron Leman russ

Cancer

Capricorn Dorn Perturabo

Gemini Alpharius

Leo Johnson

Libra

Pisces Magnus

Saggitarius _horus Guiliman

Scorpio

Taurus Jaghatai Khan

Virgo Fulgrim Sanguinius

[hmk17]

Aries - Angron

Taurus - Rogal Dorn, Ferrus Mannus

Gemini - Alpharion /Omegon

Cancer - Mortarion, Perturabo

Leo - Lion El'Jonson

Virgo - Fulgrim

Libra - Roubute Guilliman

Scorpio- Sanguinius, Curze

Sagittarius- Leman Russ, Vulkan

Capricorn - Lorgar

Aquarius - Horus, Magnus the Red

Pisces - Jaghatai Khan

 

Not enough info for specific: The 2 unknowns, Corax

[Marshal Rohr]

The Primarchs also correspond with a number of Archangels. Its fun trying to see which one is which, and everyone see something different...

[c-wrex]

Well, astrology refers to the position of celestial bodies, such as comets and constellations, not necessarily specific Zodiac signs. There a total of 88 constellations in the sky. Additionally, there are actually 13 Zodiac signs, the last one being the constellation Ophiucus.

 

However, as a astronomical tool, astrology is worthless. It is one of several disciplines known as a "pseudoscience" because it doesn't actually do anything but get studied.

 

To sum up, I think Horus' reference to the Zodiac would have been anecdotal at best, and hardly a method of the Emprah's madness.

[Candleshoes]

Of the 22 tarot:

 

Fool is the Emperor, and the World is the Imperium.

 

Magus=Magnus

High Priestess=Unknown

Empress=Fulgrim

Emperor=Horus

Hierophant=Lorgar

Lovers=Alpharius

Chariot=Roboute Guilliman

Justice=Ferrus Manus

Hermit=Lion El'Jonson

Fortune=Unknown

Strength=Vulkan

The Hanged Man=Sanguinius

Death=Mortarion

Temperance=Jaghatai Khan

The Devil=Perturabo

The Tower=Angron

The Star=Corax

The Moon=Conrad Kurze

The Sun=Rogal Dorn

The Last Judgement=Leman Russ

 

You can look up each corresponding zodiak sign from this tarot explanation - there are also base alchemic element representations for each as well.

 

The ones left unknown represent the lost primarchs, should you over be curious of what their personality and character could have been.

[Rider-75]

ares is a god of war.

 

aries is a sheep.......

(okay - a ram!)

[Monstra Sumus]

You ever been charged by a pissed off Ram?

[Lord of Worms]

I think the 20 was either a typo or an oversight of some kind. 20 is not a significant number in any philosophical or occult system I have ever heard of. Except for if you add up the Sephiroth from both the Tree of Life and it`s Inverse, but that`s ridiculously obscure and straining to have it make sense.

[Lord_Caerolion]

No, but there are the 20 cards in the major arcana of the Tarot cards, which as said above have been argued to match pretty damn well, so much so that the two missing Primarchs could have actually prevented the Heresy from happening, as they limit the negative potential of the Traitor-linked tarot cards.

For example, the High Priestess (missing Primarc #1) could help Curze to manage his visions, stop Lorgar being so dogmatic, and make Magnus a little less arrogant.

 

For anyone who wants to read more, here is the link.

[Lord of Worms]

No, but there are the 20 cards in the major arcana of the Tarot cards,

 

No there isnt. Theres 22. Either 1-22 or 0-21 depending on which pack you use. The 22 correspond to the paths on the Tree of Life. If you change that number, the whole thing falls apart.

[Lord_Caerolion]

True, I forgot about the Fool (Emperor, in this guys comparison), and the World (Imperium). The first to twentieth cards are the Primarchs, the 0(th?) and twentyfirst aren't used, and unfortunately the guy who wrote that page hasn't gotten around to detailing how those cards interact with the rest.

[Lord of Worms]

True, I forgot about the Fool (Emperor, in this guys comparison), and the World (Imperium). The first to twentieth cards are the Primarchs, the 0(th?) and twentyfirst aren't used, and unfortunately the guy who wrote that page hasn't gotten around to detailing how those cards interact with the rest.

 

Most of those attributions are tenuous to say the least. I don't see how Ferrus Manus is justice. Night Haunter would be Justice Inverted.Or how perturabo is the Devil. The model doesn't work.

[Candleshoes]

The model for the primarchs and tarot is set perfectly, the basis for your knowledge of the fine details, as well as interactions between the cards themselves is likely limited.

 

Examples:

 

Ferrus Manus as Justice

 

Objective and calculating, Justice thinks every issue through before committing himself. However he is often speedy at doing so, and once he has made a descision his commitment to it is entire.

 

While Justice is firm and unyielding once he has made his judgement, unlike the Hierophant he judges situations and people on an individual basis rather than trying to come up with a universal code. This makes him far more adaptable than he can sometimes seem, given his liking for discipline and structure.

 

Despite his objective nature he is not detached or indrawn, but outgoing and friendly. On a deeply personal level Justice may be prone to the feeling that he is somehow incomplete, and try to seek out some outside agent to fill this percieved gap in himself.

 

The most practically active of the Airy natured brothers (the others being the Magus, the Lovers and the Star) he will likely be creative and inventive, though in a highly calculated and practical rather than artistic manner.<BR

He forms a trio with the Lovers and the Star, focused on understanding of the universe. The Lovers gathers information and forms theories, Justice evaluates those ideas and decides on the best path, and the Star attempts to implement that plan for the good of mankind. This trio in turn represents three aspects of the personality of the Fool (and arguably the Magus).

 

At best, objective, balanced, inventive, diplomatic and co-operative.

 

At worst, harsh, judgemental, cold in assessment and furious in persuing percieved wrongdoing.

 

 

Peturabo as the Devil

 

Perservering, hard-working and patient, the Devil will persue a goal with methodical, single minded determination. He is likely feel great pressure of responsibilty, partly because he so readily accepts it. Because of this he can start to act put-upon and be a bit of a martyr. Underneath a modest exterior he is quite ambitious, but towards realistic and practical goals.

 

He is great builder, and often involved with constructing codes of behaviour as well as lasting physical monuments. He can become obsessed with limitations, ironically both enforcing them ruthlessly and hating the pressure they put him under. This paradox in his nature often leads to great discontent.

 

He will be work-oriented and have great difficulty relaxing, adding to his general tension. He might well turn to being highly withdrawn and suspicious of others.

 

The Devil forms a trio with the Hierophant and the Hermit, focused on knowledge and ideological structure. The Hermit attempts to study and understand the universe, the Heirophant codifies and teaches, and the Devil represents suspicion and pressure caused by the rigidity of such structures. This trio in turn represents three aspects of the personality of the World.

 

At best, responsible, hard-working, methodical, practical, constructive and patient.

 

At worst, suspicious, tense, frustrated, cold, rigid and demanding.

 

 

Night Haunter as The Moon

 

A psychic magnet for all sorts of negative emotions, but without any conscious control over the ability. Therefore likely to be plagued by disturbing visions. From this experience of the darkest aspects of humanity he is likely to be very suspicious of contact and of the merits of humans in general. However he is also genuinely perceptive of other's thoughts and motivations.

 

Distrustful of all forms of structure and possibly a bit of an anarchist. He will be very aware of the subjective aspect of truth, which may bring him into conflict with several of his brothers.

 

Highly otherworldly, he probably goes through phases of deep melancholia, and always seems rather trapped in his own dreams or more likely, nightmares. He has a self-sacrificing nature that easily slips into self-abusive martyrdom and may try to take all work and blame for failure on himself.

 

His methods will be unorthodox and indirect, and also neblous and difficult to pin down which makes them very difficult to analyse or attack. He will probably work best alone, and may shun command or even any company.

 

He forms a trio with the Chariot and Death, focused on the need for fundamental changes. The Moon is the need for change, Death the decay or destruction of old structures, and the Chariot is the establisher of new ways (which in turn will become obsolete and decay).

 

At best, perceptive, inspired, and highly effective through unusual methods.

 

At worst, paranoid to the point of hysteria or madness, unable to connect to reality, melancholic and fatalistic.

[Angelfire]

Aries the Ram is not to be confused with Ares the Roman God of War. Neither should be confused with "aeries" which is an alternative spelling of "eyries." Or "Jane Eyre," which is a romantic novel by the eldest Bronte sister. Or "Katy Perry," who is an American pop artist that sings bad music. Or "bloody mary," which is an alcoholic beverage made with tomato juice.

 

More on subject, however:

 

If you want to take in to account the Greek and Chinese Zodiacs, this is what you have: (Chinese Zodiac in brackets)

 

Ram (Sheep)

Bull (Cow)

Twins

Crab

Lion

Virgin

Balance

Scorpion

Archer

Water

Goat

Fish

Snake Holder (Snake)

(Mouse)

(Tiger)

(Rabbit)

(Dragon)

(Horse)

(Monkey)

(Chicken)

(Dog)

(Pig)

 

Total of 22. 21 if you push Dragon together with Water (Aquarius).

 

Already see some primarchs able to fit some slots: Alpharius as Gemini, Guilliman as Libra, Russ as Dog, and Angron as Tiger. It'll be a challenge to shoehorn every primarch (plus the Emperor) into the set, though.

 

-Angelfire