Captain Idaho Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 (edited) I'm only going on the most recent fluff revealed in the most recent novel to be honest. Originally all escorts were just Rapid Strike Vessel in BFG, just different classes etc. But it does seem like there is a distinction between the two concepts in a Marine fleet. Though to be honest, The Chapter's Due doesn't actually stipulate what the RSV actually were, giving the impression they are barely better than simple defence monitors. Edited June 6, 2010 by Captain Idaho Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2425731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Spatha Pilum Xiphos Three Thunderhawk gunships attached to the 2nd company. The Chapter's Due, p. 262. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2426287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn. Palladorus Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Though to be honest, The Chapter's Due doesn't actually stipulate what the RSV actually were, giving the impression they are barely better than simple defence monitors. They may have been. The RSVs aren't always supposed to be IN escorts crewed by SM personnel, they just use the rules to represent them. Since the BFG rules were written, however, just about everyone has just used IN escorts as RSVs. From Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, page 24: Using Rapid Strike Vessels: There are many different types of rapid strike vessel, and their design can vary from chapter to chapter. Space Marine fleets may represent these various rapid strike vessels by using the escorts from the Gothic Sector fleet list, with the additional Space Marine rules listed earlier, at the points cost indicated in the Adeptus Astartes fleet list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2426345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 There is a part in the book which actually makes a distinction between Frigates and Destroyers, Rapid Strike vessels and the 2 Defence Monitors. Grey areas perhaps? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2426715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn. Palladorus Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 (edited) That, or McNeill just doesn't understand the terminology involved. To be fair it is a little complicated. Nothing to do with a navy is ever easy. Armies have hard and fast rules for everything. Navies just make stuff up as they go. Edited June 7, 2010 by Cptn. Palladorus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2426978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted June 7, 2010 Author Share Posted June 7, 2010 That, or McNeill just doesn't understand the terminology involved. To be fair it is a little complicated. Nothing to do with a navy is ever easy. Armies have hard and fast rules for everything. Navies just make stuff up as they go. Yeah, I wouldn't sweat it too much. Naval definitions are generally gray areas, and Astartes naval assets moreso than most. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2427296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn. Palladorus Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 If you want to see just how gray, try to put together coherent definitions of frigate and destroyer. HARD MODE: try to define them in terms of relative displacement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2427561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 HINT: No matter what you say, it will be wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2427664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) Naval: Tarentus orbital defenses: Orbital Command Centre, geostationary missile stations, gun batteries and a small fleet of system monitors. Each of these vessels makes elliptical patrol circuits of the triple planets. (The Chapter's Due, p. 15) Indomitable: Ramilies-class star fort. Taken over by M'Kar. (The Chapter's Due, p. 17) The following four ships were captured by Honsou and used to entrap the Caesar. Sword of Ultramar: Gladius-class frigate. (The Chapter's Due, p. 64) Grand Duke of Tallasar: Gladius-class frigate. (The Chapter's Due, p. 64) Guiliman's Spear: Nova-class friaget. (The Chapter's Due, p. 64) Hera's Wrath: Hunter-class destroyer. (The Chapter's Due, p. 64) Konor's Gulf: Escort craft. (The Chapter's Due, p. 98) Ultramar Endures: Escort craft. (The Chapter's Due, p. 98) Prandium Memoriam: Escort craft. (The Chapter's Due, p. 98) Blue Sun (The Chapter's Due, p. 112) Gladius: Thunderhawk gunship of Captain Sicarius. (The Chapter's Due, p. 139) Spatha: 2nd Co. Thunderhawk. (The Chapter's Due, p. 262) Pilum: 2nd Co. Thunderhawk. (The Chapter's Due, p. 262) Xiphos: 2nd Co. Thunderhawk. (The Chapter's Due, p. 262) Edited August 13, 2010 by Brother Pariah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2487659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Woo, new informations! All from Fanatic Magazine #6. Crew "Almost all of the ship's systems are run and monintored by servitors; [they] are wired into the vessel's weapons, engines, and communications apparatus. There are also a few hundred Chapter serfs to attend to other duties, such as routine cleaning and maintenance, serving the Space Marines during meal times and other such honored tasks. These serfs are fanatically loyal to their superhuman masters, and are indoctrinated into many of the lesser orders of the Chapter's Cult. Although human, they still benefit from remarkable training and access to weaponry superior to that usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action." "Usually, one of the Chapter's Captain will be appointed Master of the Fleet with overall responsibility for the Chapter's entire fleet. This will place at his disposal all the pilots, gunnery officers, command crews and navigators in the chapter. Whilst these serfs make up the vast bulk of crews aboard Space Marine vessels, the Master of the Fleet also has a number of Space Marines under his command, who act as high-ranking officers aboard the fleet's vessels, providing captains for individual vessels, leading specialised boarding parties." "The exact organization of those Space Marines tasked with crewing the fleet varies from Chapter to Chapter. In some cases, it will be the Master of the Fleet's own company who provide these Marines, with each of his veteran captains acting as captain to a different vessel within the fleet while their own squad members each man a different vital area within that same vessel. In other cases, squads from different companies within the Chapter may be charged with manning the fleet, serving under the command of the Master of the Fleet in just the same way as a Space Marine battleforce may be made up of squads drawn from several companies across the Chapter under the battle-command of a single, nominated force commander." "At an absolute minimum, a Master of the Fleet typically needs eighty to a hundred Marines to properly crew the fleet, its Thunderhawks and its landing craft, and most Chapters have measures in place to ensure that a astanding force of this size is permanently available to the Master of the Fleet, be it his own company in its entirety, or squads from across the Chapter left permanently at his disposal." "As with all specialized roles which a Space Marine may be honored, serving in the fleet brings with it a variety of different titles and ranks...In this manner, a Space Marine force commander may well find that he is charged with command of both the battleforce and the transporting fleet, earning him additional honorifics such as Regent of the Fleet, Command at Sail and so on. A Marine's heraldry and personalized armor markings may well bear emblems of his service within the fleet, additional honors and titles gained there, or other emblems signifying their role within the fleet." "In a dominion fleet (such as the Ultramarines, who rule over the domain of Ultramar under the Treaty of Macragge), many vessels are crewed entirely by Serfs, since the few available Space Marines are spread across a great many more vessels than is usual, perhaps even proving supporting crews to some of the Imperial Navy vessels." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2511004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 From Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine (2011): Strike Cruiser Fury of Descent Thunderhawk Gunship Lance of Jove Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-2889940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Since I'll be commanding an Ultramarines fleet at Adepticon in a couple weeks, I've been researching stuff, and I found stuff! Ship sizes here, though the source seems to be from FFG's RPG. It seems to be pretty good, so I'll take it. Hunter-class Destroyer Dimensions: 1.3km long, 0.3km abeam at fins approx. Mass: 5.2 megatonnes, approx. Crew: 18,500 crew, approx. (1/10 of that for a Space Marine ship) Accel: 6.7 gravities max sustainable acceleration Nova-class Frigate Dimensions: 1.5km long, 0.62km abeam at fins approx. Mass: 5.7 megatonnes, approx. Crew: 20,000 crew, approx. (1/10 of that for a Space Marine ship) Accel: 6.1 gravities max acceleration Gladius-class Frigate Dimensions: 1.8km long, 0.7km abeam at fins approx. Mass: 5.8 megatonns, approx. Crew: 23,000 crew, approx. (1/10 of that for a Space Marine ship) Accel: 5.4 gravities max acceleration Space Marine Strike Cruiser Dimensions: 4km long, 0.9km Abeam at fins approx. Mass: 19.1 megatonnes, approx. Crew: 60,000 crew, approx. (1/10 of that for a Space Marine ship) Accel: 4.9 gravities max sustainable acceleration Space Marine Battlebarge Dimensions: 8.2km long, 2.3km abeam at fins approx. Mass: 52 megatonnes, approx. Crew: 130,000 crew, approx. (1/10 of that for a Space Marine ship) Accel: 2.5 gravities max acceleration Also found this neat size comparison chart: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/346976_md-SpaceMarineFleet.jpg And this picture of an old-school Tyrant Class Battleship...confirming the ship in the Chaos Gate game: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/veritas117/tyrantbb.jpg For that matter, I need to add in Thunderhawk and Drop Pod dimensions too! Edited April 10, 2012 by Seahawk Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3036454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I've got most of the FFG books- and haven't seen Space Marine ships statted in any of them. Maybe it was a web enhancement? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The link I gave...I'm guessing he based them off of what was in the books? I can't be sure, but it's quite accurate. I know the RSV's and Strike cruisers had rules already, just not the battle barge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I thought I'd seen ship stats in one of the Deathwatch books.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) I also updated the roster to show that Graham McNeil killed one of our battle barges. Also, I reread some of the passages in Chapter's Due, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't know the insignificance of a frigate/destroyer, in the grand scheme of things. Calgar exclaims how he never imagined he'd see such losses (four escort class ships) in his lifetime... ...despite surviving the Battle for Macragge, where almost 200 CAPITAL ships were destroyed. And lastly...four puny little vessels neutered and crippled a battleship? Even being taken by surprise...I find it hard to believe. The space scenes make me sad. Edited April 11, 2012 by Seahawk Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I thought I'd seen ship stats in one of the Deathwatch books.... Rites of battle has lots of vehicle rules- but I didn't see any starship rules. Rogue Trader- Hostile Acquisitions has rules for an Adeptus Arbites strike cruiser. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 If I remember correctly, the BFG rules only say the ship can deploy, not hold, three companies. I could've sworn I heard it could hold four companies somewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn. Palladorus Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 And lastly...four puny little vessels neutered and crippled a battleship? Even being taken by surprise...I find it hard to believe. The space scenes make me sad. In BFG, on average, four escorts have slightly more firepower than a battlecruiser broadside. I'm not saying it would be easy but if they managed to get within range of the BB unscathed then it would be possible, especially if they got lucky with the crits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Consider this though: the ships were damaged heavily, captured and crewed hastily with poorly trained schmucks. And that's before facing off against the might of an undamaged and ridiculously strong ship, captained by Marneus Calgar himself, designed to blast its way through defenses to land troops. @CMID: Nope, it's always only ever been three companies. Would be good to post if you find otherwise though. Edited April 12, 2012 by Seahawk Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 It was absurd just how foolish Calgar was in that battle/ambush, even if it was feasible for those ships to destroy a Battle Barge. He's supposedly one of the best tactical minds in the Imperium yet he saw absolutely no chance of an ambush because Ultramar had been attacked? Hopefully the next book or Codex story will have some good information on how Calgar uses his brain after this event to win some pride back for us! :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3037782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn. Palladorus Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Consider this though: the ships were damaged heavily, captured and crewed hastily with poorly trained schmucks. And that's before facing off against the might of an undamaged and ridiculously strong ship, captained by Marneus Calgar himself, designed to blast its way through defenses to land troops. Fair enough. I haven't read it yet and probably won't until they release it in an omnibus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3038097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Consider this though: the ships were damaged heavily, captured and crewed hastily with poorly trained schmucks. And that's before facing off against the might of an undamaged and ridiculously strong ship, captained by Marneus Calgar himself, designed to blast its way through defenses to land troops. Fair enough. I haven't read it yet and probably won't until they release it in an omnibus. Some good moments, just be prepared to be annoyed at the space conflict scenes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3038113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 If I remember correctly, the BFG rules only say the ship can deploy, not hold, three companies. I could've sworn I heard it could hold four companies somewhere. I remember a quote talking about how some battle barges had been modified to hold up to 4. I can't remember what it was for the life of me, but I can look around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3038135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Ah, that might have been it. It'll hopefully pop up eventually in one of my rereads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/122020-naval-operations-of-ultramar/page/6/#findComment-3038222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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