Naval Operations of Ultramar

[Seahawk]

For reference, since it's available in the SW codex. It helps give an estimate of assets for Chapters that don't stick to the codex. In fact, if we could gather data on all other chapters, I think that'd be awesome. Anybody who has anything else to add, please, by all means, bring it home!

 

Space Wolves Fleet Assets:

- 2 Ramilies Class Star Forts

- 8 Battle Barges (Notable ships: Spear of Russ, Herald of Morkai, Allfather's Honor)

- 30+ Strike Cruisers (Notable ships: Seawolf, Wolfborn)

- 20+ Hunter Class Destroyer Squadrons

- 20+ Gladius and Nova Class Frigate Squadrons

[Captain Idaho]

I presume Space Wolves are not the norm for anyone when they get new assets. They probably steal many of them in boarding actions. And I refuse to believe that the Space Wolves can utilise these ships all at once instead of leaving many in dry dock at the Fang.

[Seahawk]

Oh of course not. Most chapters only have 1-2 Battle Barges, and the Wolves certainly cannot man every single ship with any effectiveness. More realistically, these would be the numbers that the Ultramarines have, with their shipyards and stuff. Heck, we have seven named Battle Barges on the active roster, and a standing fleet of ten strike cruisers that can be enlarged as necessary (we have twelve on the active roster).

 

I scrounged through a good chunk of material last night and dug up lots of named ships for a variety of chapters, as listed at the end of the OP now. Yay! I couldn't find the name of the SW BB that is an Emperor-class Battleship; I don't remember what material that's in. What else can people find?

[minigun762]

Space Wolves Fleet Assets:

- 2 Ramilies Class Star Forts

- 8 Battle Barges (Notable ships: Spear of Russ, Herald of Morkai, Allfather's Honor)

- 30+ Strike Cruisers (Notable ships: Seawolf, Wolfborn)

- 20+ Hunter Class Destroyer Squadrons

- 20+ Gladius and Nova Class Frigate Squadrons

The capacity of those is what, 5800 marines not counting the forts and assuming each squadron is two ships with five marines each.

 

I haven't seen the most recent numbers on how big the SW are but even if each ship runs at 50% capacity, you're still looking at three Chapter's worth.

[Seahawk]

Yea, I mostly just assume GW was once again letting a monkey throw ideas at a hat (or the other way around), which resulted in this cockamamie set of numbers.

 

But hey, fluff is fluff, and in the record it goes!

Edited August 22, 2014 by Seahawk

[Conn Eremon]

Just gave this whole thread a read, some really great info. Kudos to the lot of you.

 

I was actually surprised at the Space Wolves' fleet myself, but they are suspected to be 2-3 Chapter's worth in size, consisting as they are of 12 Great Companies that can be as big as three companies' worth.

 

But then, like the Ultramarines, the Wolves seem to have an enlarged serf base to utilize as well. Or at least, the overexposure of these two Chapter's serfs in comparison to the near non-mentions of the serfs of other Chapters makes it seem so.

 

Either way, it does seem like they have more than they can effectively crew.

[minigun762]

Per Horus Heresy Book Three Extermination page 15

 

• The principal class of warship in the Great Crusade was the battleship, with more than a thousand such mighty engines of war in operation at the height of the Imperium's expansion.
• Battleships are vast constructs, ranging commonly between 8km and 12km. 
• Hold tens of thousands of crew, troops and hundreds of war machines as well as swarms of smaller attack craft. 
• Battle barges, a development of the Great Crusade, are not a single designation or class as such, but rather a term given to any variant or refit of battleship class hulls modified and optimized for use by the Legiones Astartes specifically for Space Marine planetary assault and ship to ship boarding actions.
• Grand Cruisers are 'pocket battleships'. They are intended principally to be capable of operation on their own rather than as part of a larger fleet. 
• Light and heavy Cruisers are medium-sized warships, ranging in general terms between 4km and 6km in length and with an on board complement ranging into the thousands. 
• The difference between the two primary types of cruisers is...role and specialization; heavy ...are designed to favor defense and firepower. Light cruisers sacrifice some of those elements for greatly increased speed and manoeuvrability. 
• Escort is the catch all designation for the smallest division of warp capable warships, seldom larger than 1 km or 2 km in length. 

Per Horus Heresy Book Three Extermination page 64

• At the time of the Horus Heresy, the Imperial Fists had over 1,500 warships under their direct command and many more bonded by oath and fealty. This naval might was the greatest of any Legiones Astartes and was further enhanced by the fact that many of the ships were the largest in the Imperium. Even the Sons of Horus and the Ultramarines could not rival such sttrength alone

Per Horus Heresy Book Three Extermination page 118

• At the time of the outbreak of the Horus Heresy, the Iron Warriors Legion is estimated to have had...a very substantial war fleet of over a hundred Capital (Battleship) class vessels.

[Seahawk]

Now that I'm back from vacation, I can get to working on this. Thanks!

[Seahawk]

Quite a bit of fleet action in Gathering Storm III, and some other references throughout the series, so let's gather what we can out of the series.

 

Sword of Defiance - Dark Angels Strike Cruiser, crashed on Cadia during the 13th Black Crusade and destroyed. (Gathering Storm I, 2017)

 

Firemane's Fang - Space Wolves Battle Barge. (Gathering Storm I, 2017)

 

Sword of Honour - Ultramarines Strike Cruiser. (Gathering Storm III, p.13, 2017)

 

Scourge of Heretics - Black Templars Strike Cruiser. (Gathering Storm III, p.44, 2017)

 

Pride of Hera - Unknown Ultramarines or Ultramarines successor ship. Suffered daemonic invasion when Gellar fields failed during Terran Crusade. (Gathering Storm III, p.48, 2017)

 

Wings of Glory - Hawk Lords frigate of unknown type. Destroyed by Thousand Suns fleet ambush. (Gathering Storm III, p.48, 2017)

 

Primarch's Wrath - Ultramarines Strike Cruiser, crippled by running into an allied ship during Thousand Suns ambush. (Gathering Storm III, p.48, 2017)

 

Hope and Fire - White Consuls Strike Cruiser, crippled by running into an allied ship during Thousand Suns ambush. (Gathering Storm III, p.48, 2017)

 

Silent Blade - Raven Guard frigate of unknown type. Destroyed in starship graveyard during the Terran Crusade. (Gathering Storm III, p.55)

 

Macragge's Honour - Ultramarines Gloriana-class Battleship. Captured by the Red Corsairs during the Terran Crusade.

[Captain Idaho]

Do we have much information on the specifications on Maccragge's Honour in the book or is it just loose description? (My other half "forgot" to get me Gathering Storm this weekend)

 

Bit disappointed we lost it so easily again.

[Seahawk]

Na, no description whatsoever. The only info I could glean was from wiki, and I have all the sources they cited but there's no actual information in any, so I have no idea where they got it.

[Iron Lord]

Know No Fear provides a 26km length at least.

 

Oddly, according to Lexicanum, it was not one of the 4 largest - apparently, according to Wolf King, those were Vengeful Spirit, Iron Blood, Conqueror, Hrafnkel.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gloriana_Class_Battleship

 

Surprisingly, Iron Blood is only 15 km long (Crimson Fist novella). Maybe "largest" is by mass, with it having armor plating thicker than that on other ships - bringing it into the top four?

[Seahawk]

Do you know what page in KNF? I went to all the pages referenced and I thought they were looking at a different book entirely.

[Iron Lord]

Do you know what page in KNF? I went to all the pages referenced and I thought they were looking at a different book entirely.

When I googled it, I got page 50:

 

Now they are in the compartment, the view through the crystalflex wall has become more spectacular. Below them, the vast hull of the flagship gleams in the sunlight as it extends away. Macragge’s Honour. Twenty-six kilometres of polished ceramite and steel armour.

 

 

(A few other ships got figures as well - 17 km battleship (Spirit of Konor) 12 km grand cruiser - (Antrodamicus), 9 km cruiser (Antipathy)

 

 

This is Calth Veridian Anchor, the largest and oldest of them. It is a massive edifice of jetties and slips, ship cradles and docks, suspension manufactories, habitats, depots and docking platforms. It is a little over three hundred kilometres across, a raft of metal and activity and life.

The Campanile hits it, creating light. Void shields moving at high sub-light velocities strike physical matter, and mutually annihilate. The tender simply vaporises the Ultramar Azimuth Graving Dock, shredding the superstructure of the giant berth cradle, and the cruiser Antipathy docked inside it. Cut in half, the nine kilometre-long Antipathy vanishes in a ripple of rapidly expanding heat and light as its drives detonate, and six thousand lives disappear with it. 

 

 

The grand cruiser Antrodamicus, supported by that dock, rips free of its moorings and begins to slide backwards out of the collapsing cradle, in some ghastly parody of a ship launch. Its drives are off-line. It has no power to prevent its slide or stabilise its position, at least nothing that can be lit or brought to bear fast enough. It is a huge ship, twelve kilometres long. It simply slips away backwards, like a vast promontory of ice calving from a glacier into the sea.

 

 

Light blossoms. The annihilation of matter is vast, and light is the only form in which it can escape. The battleship Spirit of Konor, seventeen kilometres long and one of the most powerful warships in the fleet of the Five Hundred Worlds, ignites, and then vanishes as critical damage compromises its power plants and vast munitions stockpiles.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Iron Lord

[phoenix01]

Is the Thunderhawk the only large assault landing craft as of M41? Or are there any Stormbirds still in the Ultramarine armoury? With Guilliman's return, does he let everyone know where the big stash of Stormbirds are and orders the recycling of all T-hawks?

 

The reasons I ask are:

1. if any chapters still field them I would imagine that the First Founding Chapters would and

2. the T-hawk is marked "Sold Out, No longer available" on Forge World's website.

 

Regarding reason 2, does this mean a retooling of the molds or is that joke on the recent "Inside the GW Design Studio" video where a cardboard box marked "Plastic Thunder Hawk" is behind Duncan being taken to a whole new level?

Edited March 24, 2017 by phoenix01

[IronDrake28]

I'm pretty sure the thunderhawk is just out of stock. :P Edited March 24, 2017 by IronDrake28

[robofish7591]

Maybe they were using thunderhawks to test new flyer rules like the new deepstrike rules! 

[DogWelder]

I wonder if there should be a "Naval battles of the Ultramaines" thread. So far we have:

 

M30 Era

Space Battle over Calth

Space Battle over Sotha

Space Battle over Percepton

Space Battle over Astagar

 

M41 Era

Space Battle against Hive Fleet Behemoth

Fleet Battles during the Invasion of Mkar

Space Battle over Maccrage (during Gathering Storm)

Space Battle over Laphis against the Alpha Legion (during Gathering Storm)

[Seahawk]

I could always add in some segments for famous naval engagements! Thanks for the idea...gonna need you to site your sources in the manner the thread has provided, s'il vous plait. :)

[Seahawk]

 

Do you know what page in KNF? I went to all the pages referenced and I thought they were looking at a different book entirely.

When I googled it, I got page 50:

 

Now they are in the compartment, the view through the crystalflex wall has become more spectacular. Below them, the vast hull of the flagship gleams in the sunlight as it extends away. Macragge’s Honour. Twenty-six kilometres of polished ceramite and steel armour.

 

 

(A few other ships got figures as well - 17 km battleship (Spirit of Konor) 12 km grand cruiser - (Antrodamicus), 9 km cruiser (Antipathy)

 

I must have a different book, because page 50 is still very wrong. My book has page 50 all about the conversation between Luciel and Tchure before the murdering begins. I'll have to do more digging.

 

[edit] Ah ha! Page 42. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Seahawk

[DogWelder]

I got these from Gathering Storm:

[DogWelder]

New info about the Ultramarines fleet from Paul Kearney's "Calgar's Fury"

 

Here, it states that the Ultramarines only had 3 Battle Barges in active service: the Caesar, Octavius and Severian.

 

However, this is after the invasion of Hive Fleet Behemoth and more Battle Barges could have been undergoing refit/repair.

 

For example the Seditio Opprimere was refitted with a new loadout following the Battle of Circe and could have still been undergoing refit.

[Captain Idaho]

Has the Seditio Opprimere been cited anywhere except that one article?

[Irbis]

Sorry for necro, but this post puzzled me:
 

• The principal class of warship in the Great Crusade was the battleship, with more than a thousand such mighty engines of war in operation at the height of the Imperium's expansion.

...

• At the time of the Horus Heresy, the Imperial Fists had over 1,500 warships under their direct command and many more bonded by oath and fealty. This naval might was the greatest of any Legiones Astartes and was further enhanced by the fact that many of the ships were the largest in the Imperium. Even the Sons of Horus and the Ultramarines could not rival such sttrength alone

...

• At the time of the outbreak of the Horus Heresy, the Iron Warriors Legion is estimated to have had...a very substantial war fleet of over a hundred Capital (Battleship) class vessels.

 

This does not compute. Imperium possesses about 1000 battleships, yet IW fleet, which is fourth largest at best, given IF snippet identifying top 3, accounts for 10% of them? How?

 

Only way this is possible if these 4 legions accounted for 50% of Imperium's battleships, with the other 16 and Imperial Navy taking the rest...

[Captain Idaho]

This thread can never be Necro'd, it's always relevant!

 

Minor Spoiler from Dark Imperium

 

Do we have any information about how the Maccragge's Honour was reclaimed? It doesn't even appear to be mentioned.