Codex: Lords of Oblivion Project

[Colrouphobic]

Oh I have a work in progress version of the Codex that you sent me a short while after the last commission, but I will make sure to download the up-to-date version when it's done :P

[Allerka]

Yeah, there's the current "Army List Only" codex, which is what I e-mailed to you, and which we're trying to update and make even better right now, and that's got Captain Tiburin on the cover. I was also working on a "Background" section of the codex, the cover of which has that Veteran Sergeant piece you did. But, that entire document was on my now-broken laptop hard drive. I really hope I don't have to start over with it, I had written a lot of new fluff in it...

[harveydent]

here's another idea i came up with for the 'special characters' section:

 

Chosen of Allerka___________________________________________220 points

 

Only one unit of the Chosen of Allerka may be fielded at any time, and count as an Elite selection on the FOC.

 

Profile: As BA Terminators

 

Unit Composition:

1 Terminator Sergeant

4 Terminators

 

Unit Type

Infantry

 

Wargear

Storm Bolter

Power Fist (sergeant has a Power Weapon)

Terminator Armor

Tabards of Fortitude

 

Special Rules

ATSKNF

Deep Strike

 

Options

The entire squad may replace their Power Sword or Power Fist with Chainfists for +5 points per model.

The sergeant may choose one psychic power from the Veteran Powers list.

In addition, you can choose to have either:

- all models replace their usual weapons with either a pair of lightning claws or a thunder hammer and storm shield, for no additional points cost;

or

- one terminator may take a cyclone launcher for +20 points or replace his storm bolter with a heavy flamer (+5 points) or an assault cannon (+30 points), and any number of models may replace their storm bolter with a combi-weapon at +5 points.

 

Tabards of Fortitude

The Chosen of Allerka may choose to pass or fail any leadership or morale test. Additionally they may add +2 to any initiative test.

 

Transport:

Terminator squads may select a Drop Pod or Land Raider as a dedicated transport vehicle.

[Allerka]

Wow, that's actually pretty spiffy! Almost makes me want to give me/Allerka custom rules, instead of just use Abaddon's, so I can use myself/him in regular games and not just Apocalypse...

 

I have to wonder about what to do with those PA Veteran Sergeants that have Tabards of Fortitude, though (which, in my army representing the 3rd Company, is something like nine or ten guys). Prolly nothing, just leave it as a modeling choice for them, I guess.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Allerka

[harveydent]

Wow, that's actually pretty spiffy! Almost makes me want to give me/Allerka custom rules, instead of just use Abaddon's, so I can use myself/him in regular games and not just Apocalypse...

 

I have to wonder about what to do with those PA Veteran Sergeants that have Tabards of Fortitude, though (which, in my army representing the 3rd Company, is something like nine or ten guys). Prolly nothing, just leave it as a modeling choice for them, I guess.

 

they just want to wear terminator armor really, really badly, so they try and dress like 'em.

 

btw, what exactly does allerka have for weaponry and equipment?

[Allerka]

Heh, yeah, we'll just forego special rules for the PA dudes with it.

 

As for myself/Allerka, I use Abaddon's rules, which are the most fluff-accurate, I feel (kind of a long story behind it which should get semi- to mostly-explained in the fluff codex, if I can recover and finish it). I could whip up new rules, though...

[harveydent]

I was a bit bored tonight and decided to take a stab at a version of Allerka. I tried to work with the Abaddon template that you mentioned, but I wanted to go for something that incorporated several other elements that I thought would fit better both with the current C:LoO rules and with the fluff (OMG did I just say that I was designing something from the top down?).

 

I included the Tabard, as well as the special sword. I wanted to keep his power level comparable to Abaddon, but I felt that he is potentially pretty old (maybe 2000 years?), he has nowhere near the amount of experience that Abaddon possesses... so I decided to use a more conventional stat line for him with just a couple modifications.

 

 

High Paladin Allerka, Chapter Master of the Lords of Oblivion_____________250 points

 

Profile: Same as BA Company Captain (with an additional +1 W and +1 WS)

 

Unit Type:

Infantry

 

Wargear:

Dremori

Tabard of Fortitude

Incipio Ferrum

Psycannon Bolts

Storm Bolter

 

Special Rules:

ATSKNF

Independent Character

Rites of Battle

Individual

Psyker

 

Psychic Powers:

Fateful Command

 

Dremori

Master-crafted power weapon that adds +2 to both Allerka’s strength and attacks characteristics. If a model suffers a wound from Dremori, Allerka may make a psychic test; if successful, the model suffers an additional wound with no saves allowed. This counts as the use of a psychic power.

 

Tabard of Fortitude

Allerka may choose to pass or fail any leadership or morale test. Additionally he may add +2 to any initiative test he takes.

 

Incipio Ferrum

Counts as terminator armor with a built in adamantine mantle. After armor saves and invulnerable saves are taken, Allerka may ignore any wound he suffers on a roll of 6. Additionally, Incipio Ferrum allows all friendly units within 12” to re-roll any failed morale and pinning tests.

 

Fateful Command

Used during the shooting phase. One unit (friend or foe!) within 18” becomes Fearless until the start of the next game turn.

 

Keeping him at somewhere close to the same power level in close combat against troop units (as Abaddon) seemed important, but I also feel that Abaddon is quite possibly the most hideously overpowered model in 5th Edition (lots of experience with this), so I toned the strength and # of attacks down a bit. At the very least he is as good as Azrael, if not better, which is saying a lot.

 

I wanted to use a little bit of Iron Hands influence in his rules too, and since he has Terminator armor, I figured that was the place to start.

 

Wasn't sure if you wanted him to be a psyker, or if you wanted him to be more of a commander. Either way, I think the psychic power alone makes up for any loss in power level compared to points cost.

 

Let me know what you think!

[Allerka]

Not too bad. I like the armor rules and name. :) I think the psyker/commander balance is just fine, too.

 

I wouldn't really know if Abaddon's overpowered or not, literally the only time I've seen anyone field him since the current codex came out was when I deployed Allerka during an Apocalypse game, and I just spent one turn running across the board, and another fighting Ku'gath to only modest effect (I left after that turn was done). I think some of the C: Daemons characters are even more over the top, though (or maybe it's just because I was simultaneously attacked by Fateweaver, Ku'gath, Epidemius, and Typhus in that game :D).

 

Anyway, overall, it looks pretty good. I almost wanna say Dremori works more like a powerfist that strikes in I order, plus the psychic test, and just put the extra attacks in the profile. Given the sword's origin, I think that'd be more fitting.

 

As for the fluff side of it, well... the Chapter's a little over 3000 years old, and Allerka's seemingly been in charge the entire time... (I'll get into it in more depth once I get the fluff-codex written)

[harveydent]

I wouldn't really know if Abaddon's overpowered or not, literally the only time I've seen anyone field him since the current codex came out was when I deployed Allerka during an Apocalypse game, and I just spent one turn running across the board, and another fighting Ku'gath to only modest effect (I left after that turn was done). I think some of the C: Daemons characters are even more over the top, though (or maybe it's just because I was simultaneously attacked by Fateweaver, Ku'gath, Epidemius, and Typhus in that game :P).

 

he gets an average of more than 7 attacks that hit everything on 3+, wound 99% of things on a 2+ (re-rolling all to-wound rolls), and he does this all at initiative 6, and with the potential to cause instant death to most MEQ characters, and his weapon allows no saves. now he effectively has counterassault because of 5th edition rules, so you can hide him in a unit. he has about a 50-50 shot of killing the nightbringer, and there is almost nothing in the game that can boast that sort of effectiveness in HtH. carnifex problem? dead. hive tyrants? dead. entire squad of death company? dead. incubi squad? dead. a whole bunch of ork nobs? dead. he's just that good.

 

Anyway, overall, it looks pretty good. I almost wanna say Dremori works more like a powerfist that strikes in I order, plus the psychic test, and just put the extra attacks in the profile. Given the sword's origin, I think that'd be more fitting.

 

a strength of 8 with initiative 5 is really, really too good. is there something specific you want it to work really well against? for instance, since the chapter has a history of fighting daemons, we could say that it wounds daemons on a 2+.

 

As for the fluff side of it, well... the Chapter's a little over 3000 years old, and Allerka's seemingly been in charge the entire time... (I'll get into it in more depth once I get the fluff-codex written)

 

wow. so they weren't part of the 2nd founding?

[Allerka]

he gets an average of more than 7 attacks that hit everything on 3+, wound 99% of things on a 2+ (re-rolling all to-wound rolls), and he does this all at initiative 6, and with the potential to cause instant death to most MEQ characters, and his weapon allows no saves. now he effectively has counterassault because of 5th edition rules, so you can hide him in a unit. he has about a 50-50 shot of killing the nightbringer, and there is almost nothing in the game that can boast that sort of effectiveness in HtH. carnifex problem? dead. hive tyrants? dead. entire squad of death company? dead. incubi squad? dead. a whole bunch of ork nobs? dead. he's just that good.

Huh... that's pretty nasty. :) Conversely, though, he has virtually zero shooting ability, so armies like Eldar and Tau could theoretically just dance around him and shoot him to death. I would think, anyway.

 

 

a strength of 8 with initiative 5 is really, really too good. is there something specific you want it to work really well against? for instance, since the chapter has a history of fighting daemons, we could say that it wounds daemons on a 2+.

Well, Pedro Cantor is supposedly getting an I 5 PF, so... Then again, I doubt his will count as a semi-force weapon. I like the daemon thing, though, I'll have to think about it.

 

 

wow. so they weren't part of the 2nd founding?

Nah, not even close. The Chapter wasn't founded until late M38. For the fluff I've come up with thus far, the Brazen Claws were supposedly picked to provide the officers needed to oversee the Chapter's establishment (since the Iron Hands couldn't spare the people, and this also helps explain the LoO's more codex-oriented structure). However, the ship that had the officers on it went missing, and was found adrift months later, most of the crew on-board dead, and everyone that wasn't dead was insane, except for one Marine in TDA, named Allerka. According to him, the ship was attacked by Chaos Marines who used psychic attacks to flay the minds of the Marines aboard, rendering all their advanced training and wargear useless. He was the only one with the willpower to resist the attacks, and managed to drive the CSMs off, but obviously couldn't crew the ship by himself.

 

The attack left him deeply disturbed, though, at how casually all the super-human powers of the Space Marines were rendered useless by simple mental attacks. So, he resolved to ensure his Marines would never fall prey to that. Hence the emphasis on mental fortitude. :)

[Allerka]

Another thing I thought I'd mention is I'm tossing around ideas for a "Lords of Oblivion Battle-Company" datasheet for Apocalypse. Should be fun to do, but we'll discuss that in another thread. :D

[Allerka]

Ok, some more thoughts on my rules.

 

I checked the translation of "Incipio Ferrum", and I'm a bit confused. Incipio basically means "to begin" or "the commencement" of something, and Ferrum means Iron, of course. Or, am I just missing something?

 

I was thinking about the upcoming SM codex. We know Combat Tactics is basically the same thing as what the Tabard of Forittude does (minus the Initiative test). So, I'm thinking maybe we should adjust the rules for that (maybe just have them give the Initiative test boost). Also, I'm thinking we should add a "Chapter Tactics" rule. I'd replace the psychic power with this, to keep things somewhat simplistic. For Chapter Tactics, I'm thinking either "The entire army gains Stubborn", or "Veteran Psychic Powers cost 5 points less". Or possibly both, given how sick some of the rumored buffs the vanilla SCs are. Maybe just the cheaper powers option, though, given that there's already a morale-boosting rule in there.

[harveydent]

Ok, some more thoughts on my rules.

 

I checked the translation of "Incipio Ferrum", and I'm a bit confused. Incipio basically means "to begin" or "the commencement" of something, and Ferrum means Iron, of course. Or, am I just missing something?

 

incipio : to take in hand, begin, commence

 

(meant to mean 'embracing iron' or 'hand in hand with our origin' or 'originating from iron')

 

we can always find a new name for it ^_^

 

I was thinking about the upcoming SM codex. We know Combat Tactics is basically the same thing as what the Tabard of Forittude does (minus the Initiative test). So, I'm thinking maybe we should adjust the rules for that (maybe just have them give the Initiative test boost). Also, I'm thinking we should add a "Chapter Tactics" rule. I'd replace the psychic power with this, to keep things somewhat simplistic. For Chapter Tactics, I'm thinking either "The entire army gains Stubborn", or "Veteran Psychic Powers cost 5 points less". Or possibly both, given how sick some of the rumored buffs the vanilla SCs are. Maybe just the cheaper powers option, though, given that there's already a morale-boosting rule in there.

 

since only terminators were supposed to have the tabards of fortitude, they do two things:

1) allow termies to run from combat if they lose (instead of being tied up), which ties into the fallback move from combat tactics.

2) give you a bonus to any initiative test.

 

if you want to do something else with them, that's fine.

 

as far as what to do with a replacement for combat tactics, i'm not sure what to do. i'll think about it a bit.

[Allerka]

Ok, the name makes a little more sense. It actually fits pretty well, especially the "originating from iron" and "hand in hand with our origin" ones.

 

As for the Tabards, I'll have to think about it as well. One idea I had was FNP for the squad, which would perfectly represent their being the hardest warriors in the Chapter, though it might be a bit useless on Termies, since anything that'd punch through the 2+ armor save wouldn't let them use it anyway. (I'll have to double-check the wording on the rules, I'm STILL waiting for my copy of the new book to get here :( )

 

With Chapter Tactics, I'm leaning towards the cheaper psychic powers, since that fits the Chapter, and there'll already be an SC who gives the army Stubborn for his (Lysander). This would help differentiate between the two, I think.

[harveydent]

yeah, you don't get FNP against ap1 or ap2

[Allerka]

Not to mention power weapons. They could still use it against regular stuff, though, I forgot it's a second save they can take. It'd certainly help reduce the annoyance of dying to massed lasgun fire. :lol:

[harveydent]

btw, do you have an updated version of the 'dex as it stands right now? i just want to make sure i'm working with the most recent version. Edited July 29, 2008 by harveydent

[Allerka]

I don't. I'm still trying to find a place to do some data recovery, the quotes I'm getting back are a lot more expensive than I was expecting. If I can't find somewhere with a reasonable price, I'll try to convert the current PDF version back into a Word file or something and re-update it all again.

[Allerka]

Minor update on the hard drive: I'm shipping it off today to a place for data recovery, hopefully I'll have it back by next week, along with the data (they said the odds are extremely high they'll be able to recover everything).

 

On the rules front, it seems it's been discovered what the new powers for C:SM will be.

 

Librarians

Nine psychic powers:

 

* Avenger: essentially an AP3 heavy flamer

* Force Dome: 5+ invulnerable for the librarian and squad until the end of next player turn

* Gate of Infinity: librarian and squad Deep Strike back within 24" but with a minor risk...

* Machine Curse: shooting attack causing a Glancing Hit on 1 vehicle within 24"

* Might of the Ancients: Librarian gains strength 6 and rolls 2d6 armour penetration

* Null Zone: all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn

* Smite: 12" range, assault 4 St4 AP2

* Quickening: gains Fleet and Initiative 10

* Vortex of Doom: 12" St10 AP1 Heavy1 Blast; failed test results in the blast being centered on the librarian without scatter.

 

It was also mentioned that they're LD 10, and that the psychic hood is reduced in range from infinity to 24". I'll tweak the list to represent the increased LD, and I wonder if maybe we could differentiate how the hoods work for the LoO, to represent them being better psykers. Also there's some discussion on upgraded Epistolaries being able to use two powers a turn. I'll probably have to tweak Filinus' entry a little, too.

[harveydent]

i read all that on the BoLS yesterday (heresy, i know!), and i'm cool with it. i would say that the drawback for the psychic hood is that you can't be everywhere at once with it... i suppose that you have to take 2 psykers in the new C:SM to get two hoods, which will cover more ground.

 

i suppose that being able to have 4x psychic hood in the LoO minidex is pretty good, even if 2 of them are just LD8.

 

glad to hear that the HD is getting fixed :P

[Allerka]

i read all that on the BoLS yesterday (heresy, i know!), and i'm cool with it. i would say that the drawback for the psychic hood is that you can't be everywhere at once with it... i suppose that you have to take 2 psykers in the new C:SM to get two hoods, which will cover more ground.

 

i suppose that being able to have 4x psychic hood in the LoO minidex is pretty good, even if 2 of them are just LD8.

Hmm, true, 4x hoods would certainly be more than enough to cover a board. But, how often would we see that? I barely see one Command Squad or equivalent in a non-Apoc game, let alone two plus two Librarians, the most expensive of the HQ choices. Maybe just increase the range for LoO to 36"? Nothing too terribly huge, but still gives a marked advantage over other Chapters?

 

 

glad to hear that the HD is getting fixed :)

Well, it's not getting "fixed" so much as it's getting "torn apart into its constituent pieces and having all the data extracted and placed onto an external hard drive I also had to buy". :)

[harveydent]

i think 36" would be perfect.

[Allerka]

Alright, some more information on Librarians has surfaced. Specifically, they may pick two powers from the list given, and that's built into their cost. Additionally, they may be upgraded to Epistolaries which lets them use two powers per turn. I'm thinking making the Epistolary upgrade automatic for our boys, and keep them at the Codicier cost. This also means we'll have to revise Chief Librarian Filinus' entry a bit, since he's not quite so special now, plus Tigurius is getting buffed a bit too. For Filinus, I'm thinking full access to the list, along with three powers per turn, just like Tigurius. Whereas Tigurius allows re-rolls, Filinus makes all units within 12" Stubborn. Plus with the buffed hood range, this allows Filinus to edge out a little bit ahead, and I think he'd be fine there. Thoughts?

[harveydent]

i'll think about it some. i think there's a way to say "this guy is super" without going directly for the jugular...especially with the way this lists' non-standard psychic powers work.

 

i've got my head going in six directions at the moment too, which isn't helping!

[Allerka]

Ha ha ha, ok.

 

We could let him take a couple of Veteran powers instead, that's definitely an option...