Those Who Rise Again

[Brother_Raphael]

As a veteran player who is new to 4th Edition, I have only recently had my first few games against the Necrons.

 

Time and again I find I have the hardest time fighting them and winning. The two Necron guys I play against are both really nice about it, but I haven't even come close to winning against them yet.

 

Rather than give my ideas about what I'm doing wrong, (or doing right) I'd like to hear what others have to say.

 

What are your most tried-and-true tactics for taking down these hellish robots?

[Mycroft Holmes]

In general:

 

Use power weapons and str 8+ when ever possible to keep them from getting their WBB rolls.

Force them to spread apart as much as possible, so that they're not with in 6" of a similiar unit. Again, to prevent their WBB rolls.

Focus fire and elliminate whole squads.... again to prevent WBB rolls.

Ignore/Avoid Monoliths and nightbringers if possible. The more of these they have, the less points they have for "Necron' special ruled models and easier to force a phase out.

Keep vehicles out of LOS/range when ever possible, due to Necrons ability to always score glancing hits.

CloseCombat(CC) is generally in your favor.

Watch out if a Monolith is getting close to a CC as it can warp the necrons out of combat, leaving you high and dry.

Always eliminate/lock in CC Destroyers if you get the chance. Their speed keeps them safe most of the time and they have incredible weapondry.

 

 

I'd say the most important general rule from above is: Focus Fire. ALWAYS elliminate whole squads when possible. Especially an expensive destroyer/immortal/etc squad that isn't likely to have a model of the same type any where near them.

 

Mycroft

[BrotherAtrox]

Drop pods and vehicles (tank shock!) are a great way to isolate Necron squads from the rest of their army. With the vehicles, you'll likely have to try and single out a unit on the flank as driving into a Phalanx is bad news. This present the almost guaranteed problem of him having Destroyers, as they seem to be a popular flank-guard unit. Drop pods? Put the where you want (take the Careful Planning Asset!) and rapid fire a squad or into firey doom.

[Bannus]

A general "theme" to defeat a Necron army is to counter their WBB rolls any way possible. Use as many weapons as you can that can negate this ability. After that, then get as many weapons that at least deny their Armor Save.

 

The Necrons biggest weakness is their Phase Out rule. In this respect you can completely defeat your opponent without actually having to destroy every single unit.

 

Countering the mobiity of the Necron units is also key. Several good suggestions have already been made. To offset the portal on the Monolith (which rather unsportingly removes Necron units from close combat), use highly mobile units to move within 1" of the portal. This can be dangerous as the Monolith will likely attack that unit. A way around that is to use a unit that can engage in hand-to-hand as well (like an Assault Squad or Bike Squadron) and engage the first unit to use the portal. Being in hand-to-hand, the Monolith cannot target you and by tying up units in front of the portal you prevent its use. Of course the Monolith can always back up (well, not always). This works to your favor as well - as his units will then teleport further and further away from the objective.

[Brother_Raphael]

First, thank you all for your help and ideas- everyone has some good ideas here. :)

 

Second, keep 'em comin'! I'm going to reply here, but I don't want people to be discouraged from posting just because we've got some solid answers above.

 

Next, both Mycroft and bannus have mentioned the Monolith in particular. As it messes with so many rules (taking squads out of CC! :o ) I would like more discussion about what you do when they are wrecking your game plan. For example, bannus has (rightly) mentioned keeping the portal blocked. That's a good idea, but what about when you're playing 1500+ pts. and your opponent is fielding two Monoliths, (or more!)

 

I'm a little bit biased as I play an assault-oriented BA army, but nonetheless I often hear that there are only two ways to deal with Monoliths: ignore them, or focus on them to the exclusion of all else. The former means that my Assault Squads keep having their punching bags taken away, and the latter requires a lot of Lascannons, (especially when there's more than one on the table.) What do I do!?

 

Last, I did some searching and found another Necron FAQ in the DA section of B&C. The link is here.

 

Thanks in advance. Darn robots.

[minigun762]

Well look at it this way. If your opponent takes 2 monoliths at 1500, thats a 1/3 of his army that isn't necron. Thats means you're only trying to phase out a 1000 point army.

Now its true that he can teleport a squad out, but I believe he can only teleport 1 squad out per monolith.

With assault pack units, you're best bet is to tie up multiple squads, so some of them have to be sacrificed.

OR

do the opposite and hit 1 squad with 3+ squads. You might be able to break them completely and with some luck, they'll run and you'll massacre them. This is good because they have I2 and massacre = No WBB roll at all.

If nothing else, you might just do enough damage to kill them outright.

 

As for the monoliths themselves, if you aren't using a vindicator, I'd tend to ignore them. Missle launchers/meltagun are way better at killing warriors for no WBB and lascannons can be put against their destroyers or warriors.

 

If you're a BA player, I'd guess death company would slaughter most necron models. The best thing to do would get them into the middle of some warriors. Or maybe use them to slaughter a group of destroyers, at 50 points each they're a nice little source of VP's and T5 matters little to rending.

 

EDIT: I mentioned vindicators simply because S10 that gets 2 rolls for penetration will work WONDERS against monoliths. They're big enough that you're almost always going to land on them, even with scatter.

[BrotherAtrox]

A Monolith is nasty, but it's only got a 14 for it's armor. Yeah it seems formidable but honestly they can be blown up just like any other vehicle. Don't be afraid to shoot at them. I usually take an Annihilator and assign it the role of hunting the Monolith (I've never had more than one fielded against me).

[Mycroft Holmes]

Your biggest fears with a monolith:

 

A) Deepstrikes them dirrectly in the center of your formation, getting d6 shots at every unit in range

B) Uses it as close support for warriors. ( Blocking LOS to his warriors. Warping guys that are lagging behind forward. Warping guys out of combat. etc..)

 

 

In these situations, you've got a smart player whos using the generally very high survivability of the monolith to his advantage. Lucky for you, the best weapons for killing warriors (rockets, lascannons, PFist) are some of the best ways to kill the monolith with marines.

 

The biggest problem we have as marine players, is that a Tac squad gets one heavy shot. Which may hit, might glance/pen and theresult stands a good chance of being ignored due to all the Living Metal special rules. THis is why I advise staying away from them as much as possible. If you find yourself in one of the previously mentioned situations, you have to evaluate what REALLY needs to die, take your chances and see what you roll.

 

Mycroft

[Bannus]

If you want a dedicated Monolith killer, nothing reaches out and touches it better than four lascannons in a Dev Squad. Expensive? Yes. But they will continue to earn their points as they snipe at the remnants of Necron Squads to so that they don't come back.

[One More Day]

Better still is Imperial Fists Tank Hunter Devastators with 4 lascannons - 4 effectively Str10 shots - spicey!

 

I'm doing an Apocalypse in a couple of weeks, against mainly Necrons, though with a few Nids and Dark Eldar thrown into the mix. The Possibility of having multiple Monoliths popping up with their Nightshroud rule, along with probably multiple C'Tan (two per player - no restrictions in Apoc!), means that ignoring them or avoiding them is no longer an option.

 

Thankfully, we have a Warhound :)

[Bannus]

Tank Hunters doesn't work against 'Living Metal' - there is no weak points to aim for. ;)

[minigun762]

If you want a dedicated Monolith killer, nothing reaches out and touches it better than four lascannons in a Dev Squad. Expensive? Yes. But they will continue to earn their points as they snipe at the remnants of Necron Squads to so that they don't come back.

 

I don't know, I still vote for vindicators as the ultimate "Monolith Killer".

Plus you can get atleast 2 for the price of those Devs/Havocks.

Toss on PotMS or Daemonic Poassession and you'll be good to go.

 

Or just drop a pair of S10 AP2 pie plates on warriors or destroyers. ;)

[One More Day]

Tank Hunters doesn't work against 'Living Metal' - there is no weak points to aim for. :o

WHAT! Darn it. Let's keep that one between us, shall we?

[SyNidus]

Wait a minute, why wouldn't Tank Hunters work against a monolith?(ruleswise) After all, it is still using the Base Strength, just that the skill adds +1 to the AP roll.

[Bannus]

Because that +1 comes from the knowledge the unit has gained about shooting particularly vulnerable parts of a tank. Monoliths have no such weaknesses.

[Vaaish]

Better still is Imperial Fists Tank Hunter Devastators with 4 lascannons - 4 effectively Str10 shots - spicey!

 

If only the Necron FAQ hadn't made tank hunters useless against the monolith. reading the rules from just the BBB and codex it should still work since no extra dice are rolled and there is no special rule that counts the monolith armor as less than it is.

[One More Day]

I've never had a Necron player complain about it - and these guys remind me constantly about the melta effect not happening (which makes Melta bombs almost useless). I've always read it that it's the skill of the firer, rather than the build of the machine, that's what counts for Tank Hunters.

 

I still stand on this theory, until someone can show me the reverse in print.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I still stand on this theory, until someone can show me the reverse in print.

From the Necron FAQ:

 

When attacking a Monolith, ... don't count any bonus penetration of any sort against a Monolith. So no bonuses for ... tank hunter veteran skills, etc

[Joah from Alberta]

How does a vindi get a pair of S10 AP2 pie plates on a stinking monolith?

[Firedrake Cordova]

How does a vindi get a pair of S10 AP2 pie plates on a stinking monolith?

Minigun767 was talking about fielding a pair of them ;)

[Joah from Alberta]

Yeah, Monolith is disproportional to all current vehicles as are ALL skimmers in Warhammer 40k.

 

I'll give you my two-cents, better to leave the Monolith alone, if you want to gamble go to the casino, it'll pay out better. Otherwise, you stand to become: crew stunned yourself and your whole game plan crumble to frustration. Go for the warriors and bikes.

[Joah from Alberta]

Here are some questions concerning Necron scum:

 

Does a deep strike monolith count as having moved more than 6"?

 

Do two immobilized on a monolith destroy the monolith if not having moved more than 6"?

 

Do skimmers need 6s in CC regardless of movement?

 

Can wraiths assault after jetboost? Can they jetboost?

 

Can destroyers shoot after jetboost? Can they jetboost?

[One More Day]

Here are some questions concerning Necron scum:

 

Does a deep strike monolith count as having moved more than 6"? Land Speeders count as moving 12" when they deep strike... Make your own conclusion...

 

Do two immobilized on a monolith destroy the monolith if not having moved more than 6"?

 

Do skimmers need 6s in CC regardless of movement? I rather think it does, I'm afraid

 

Can wraiths assault after jetboost? Can they jetboost? Wraithflight... moves like jump packs? Don't think they can Turbo

 

Can destroyers shoot after jetboost? Can they jetboost? These guys are just like other bikes - They can turbo, so counting their armour save as invulnerable (so long as they move at least 18" from their original point), but they can not shoot - no way, no how!

 

@Firedrake - Thanks, but I meant being shown it in print at my club. ^_^ Yeah, I know - saves me some points though, and gives me even more excuse for taking a Vindicare assassin (Turbo-penetrator rounds effect as normal!)

 

Actually, I've got a question too - If the Scourging Psychic power from Codex Daemonhunters, as well as the Psycannon, Psycannon bolts and Incinerator all ignore Invulnerable saves, what happens when you shoot at a Turbo-boosted bike, or at a Sister of Battle with the Prayer that makes her save invulnerable?

[Mycroft Holmes]

Actually, I've got a question too - If the Scourging Psychic power from Codex Daemonhunters, as well as the Psycannon, Psycannon bolts and Incinerator all ignore Invulnerable saves, what happens when you shoot at a Turbo-boosted bike, or at a Sister of Battle with the Prayer that makes her save invulnerable?

 

They make their Armor/Cover saves as normal based on the AP of the weapon.

 

Mycroft

[Joah from Alberta]

Says in Necron codex: Wraithflight: move in the same way as a jetbike ... (so can they jetboost ... People: this is what happens when you don't take the time to teach your family and friends proper English).

 

Do two immobilized on a monolith destroy the monolith if not having moved more than 6"?

 

Destroyers: Jetbikes: Destroyers count as jetbikes for movement purposes. They may also move and fire their gauss cannons. Does jetboost count as movement? And why does my (crap) Chaos codex not have these wonderful gimme rules.

 

Sorry, I guess I'm feeling Necron postgame disorder.