Fighting 'nidzilla

[Sidri_cyber]

Good day!!!

I'm a former Necrons player and big bugs usually scare me as nothing else - how would you fight tuned up carni with 2+ save and flygant?

[minigun762]

Short answer: Plasma, Melta, Lascannons, Power Fists, Assault Cannons if available.

 

Longer answer: Things like raptors/assault marines can carry the special weapons you need to use plus the power fist. You'll need to take larger squads (8-10 guys) to make sure the power fist survives long enough to get its work done. This works especially well with shooty carnifex as they only have 2 attacks normally.

Against Flyrants, hit them with as much AP2 dakka as you can at range, then finish them off with those power fists. Optimally you'll kill them before they hit your lines but thats hard to do, especially with flying.

 

Also beware because many of these Nidzilla lists use genestealers and ravenors as counter assault troops, to stop your squads from hitting them OR tie up your shooty units.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Good day!!!

I'm a former Necrons player and big bugs usually scare me as nothing else - how would you fight tuned up carni with 2+ save and flygant?

 

 

Assault Cannons. LOTS. Have fun ^_^

 

 

Mycroft

[Sidri_cyber]

Stinky asscannons? Hell yeah... A couple of land speeders may do the trick...

But because of possible 5th edition and cutting "rending" down this may be not a valid tactic...

[minigun762]

Stinky asscannons? Hell yeah... A couple of land speeders may do the trick...

But because of possible 5th edition and cutting "rending" down this may be not a valid tactic...

 

Actually it shouldn't hurt you very much.

My understanding of the new rending is you still have to wound the target. With S6 you'll be wounding 50% of the time which isn't bad at all. Plus an assault cannon still crushes genestealers and warriors.

[BrotherAtrox]

Deathwatch Kill Team. If I'm fighting Nids I always take one of about 6-8 troopers.

[Mycroft Holmes]

Stinky asscannons? Hell yeah... A couple of land speeders may do the trick...

But because of possible 5th edition and cutting "rending" down this may be not a valid tactic...

 

Dreads and 6man Termy squads with 2 ACannons are more than capable of doing serious damage to Nid'zilla armies. Ranged and CC.

 

As for the 5th edition possibilities? We're playing with 4rth edition and it works NOW. We'll see 5th edition soon enough, no need to change your tactics for what MAY come.

 

Mycroft

[Levett]

5 or 6 man Las / Plas squads, and HB / Plas squads. I take two 5 man Las / Plas and two 5 man HB / Plas squads and do fine. I simply concentrate fire until its dead, prioritising on which will reach my lines first.

[Crouching_Monkey]

How does a group of say 5 Snipers do? With the whole wounding on a 4+ thing. would that be useful?

[Levett]

Wounding on a 4+... then they take a 2+ armour save, so, presuming you hit, and wound all 5 shots.... the odds aren't even in your favour of him failing 1 armour save.

[Brother_Raphael]

Wounding on a 4+... then they take a 2+ armour save, so, presuming you hit, and wound all 5 shots.... the odds aren't even in your favour of him failing 1 armour save.

 

Levett is correct, but if you're willing to spend the points, my DA buddy swears up and down, (and up and down again) that a 10-man, 9 sniper with ML Scout Squad will take at least 2 wounds a round from a 'Fex. (His words not mine <--- disclaimer) :wacko:

[Levett]

For the points of his 10 man scout squad (which is just asking for a venom cannon in the face), you could get a Missile Launcher dev squad, which will do far more damage in general, as you can use the ML dev squad to engage those fex's with a 3+, or Warriors.

 

However, best investment vs Nidzilla is still the 5 man Las/Plas squad. 100pts for a squad which dominates vs all opponents. I run with 2 of these in 1500 points and have no issues :)

[Sidri_cyber]

las/plas squad is quite efficient, but unfluffy... :(

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

las/plas squad is quite efficient, but unfluffy... :(

 

Unfluffy as per Salamanders fluff? If that's the case, work it. Say that after several disastrous and costly attempts to battle Carnifexes with flamers and meltas at short range, the Company entrusted its precious few lascannons and plasma guns to specialist squads whose primary purpose is to take out 'Nidzillas at distance. That seems logical and rational enough to defy fluff to an extent for the sake of maximizing potential.

[Wildfire]

Powerfists work best vs. carnis, if you can get them there. The problem is the counter-charge by genestealers waiting behind them. Try to take them out first, using speeders or HB bikes.

[minigun762]

Wounding on a 4+... then they take a 2+ armour save, so, presuming you hit, and wound all 5 shots.... the odds aren't even in your favour of him failing 1 armour save.

 

Levett is correct, but if you're willing to spend the points, my DA buddy swears up and down, (and up and down again) that a 10-man, 9 sniper with ML Scout Squad will take at least 2 wounds a round from a 'Fex. (His words not mine <--- disclaimer) :)

 

Warning! Math-hammer below!

 

I like math-hammering so I'll toss it out there for anyone to read if they're interested.

This is assuming you're going up against a normal Carnifex (T6 3+ save) A 2+save one is really going to hurt you.

 

1 missile launcher x 0.67 chance to hit x 0.83 chance to wound = 0.56 wounds

9 sniper rifles x 0.83 chance to hit x 0.5 chance to wound x 0.33 chance to fail save = 1.24 wounds

total: 1.8 wounds removed on average, pretty close to the 2 wounds listed.

 

However, the unit comes in at 185 points which is kinda pricey

[Levett]

Or 4 missile launchers? work that one out. Much more efficient.

[minigun762]

Or 4 missile launchers? work that one out. Much more efficient.

 

As you wish my liege ;)

 

4 missile launcher shots x 0.67 hits x 0.83 wounds = 2.22 wounds removed

 

Figure the standard squad is 8 guys and 4 missile launchers, which comes in at an even 200 points

So a little better, but a little more expensive

 

As I mentioned before though, the BIG problem for both weapons is if they have a 2+ save.

Then the numbers would look like this...

Scout's total = 0.71 wounds

Dev's total = 0.36 wounds

[Levett]

6 man dev squad is always the way.

 

For those 200 points, i'd still rather have 10 bodies in the form of two 5 man las / plas squads, which simply dominate.

[foster]

If you're a BA player then 3 Baals with heavy bolter sponsons is the path you should go. I use 3 of them in a 1000pts army and it's evil for 375pts. I only played my first two matches with them and they weren't against nids but dahmm the are evil, they go through units like they were butter. Why go tornados when you can go with Baals.

[BrotherAtrox]

As you wish my liege :ph34r:

 

4 missile launcher shots x 0.67 hits x 0.83 wounds = 2.22 wounds removed

 

Figure the standard squad is 8 guys and 4 missile launchers, which comes in at an even 200 points

So a little better, but a little more expensive

 

As I mentioned before though, the BIG problem for both weapons is if they have a 2+ save.

Then the numbers would look like this...

Scout's total = 0.71 wounds

Dev's total = 0.36 wounds

 

Do you like...have a program that could do these calculations automatically? Yes I realize they're easy but I'm a history major.

[minigun762]

As you wish my liege :yes:

 

4 missile launcher shots x 0.67 hits x 0.83 wounds = 2.22 wounds removed

 

Figure the standard squad is 8 guys and 4 missile launchers, which comes in at an even 200 points

So a little better, but a little more expensive

 

As I mentioned before though, the BIG problem for both weapons is if they have a 2+ save.

Then the numbers would look like this...

Scout's total = 0.71 wounds

Dev's total = 0.36 wounds

 

Do you like...have a program that could do these calculations automatically? Yes I realize they're easy but I'm a history major.

 

Haha nope, just some free time and a calculator.

 

If there is anything you'd like I can try to hook it up for you.

[Castlehammer]

Wounding on a 4+... then they take a 2+ armour save, so, presuming you hit, and wound all 5 shots.... the odds aren't even in your favour of him failing 1 armour save.

 

Levett is correct, but if you're willing to spend the points, my DA buddy swears up and down, (and up and down again) that a 10-man, 9 sniper with ML Scout Squad will take at least 2 wounds a round from a 'Fex. (His words not mine <--- disclaimer) :D

 

Hi guys.

 

I wrote out this math in response to brother_raphael, but subsequently realized that a math genius of the the name minigun762 did most of it. However to the benefit of the history major brother atrox I'll post this silly math anyway. It may help someone to see that these calculations are indeed very simple.

 

The statistics for a 10-man, 9 sniper + ML (krak) squad trying to wound a Carnifex goes like this:

 

1. vs T6 Sv 3+ 'fex

 

Snipers: 9x5/6=7.5hits x 1/2=3.75 wounds x 1/3=1.25 actual wounds from the 'fex

ML: 2/3 hit x 5/6 = 0.55 wounds = 0.55 actual wounds (no save vs krak)

 

in total= 1.8 wounds to the 'fex pr round

 

2. vs T7 Sv3+ 'fex

 

Snipers: 9x5/6=7.5hits x 1/2=3.75 wounds x 1/3=1.25 actual wounds from the 'fex

ML: 2/3 hit x 2/3 = 0.44 wounds = 0.44 actual wounds (no save vs krak)

 

in total= 1.69 wounds to the 'fex pr round

 

3. vs T7 Sv2+ 'fex (the ultimate badass 'fex)

 

Snipers: 9x5/6=7.5hits x 1/2=3.75 wounds x 1/6=0.625 actual wounds from the 'fex

ML: 2/3 hit x 1/2 = 0.44 wounds x 1/6 = 0.073 actual wounds (now the 'fex saves vs the krak)

 

in total= 0.70 wounds to the bad ass 'fex pr round

 

CONCLUSION:

 

If the 'nid player uses a basic 'fex, it may work (1.8W / rnd). Against the badass 'fex - FORGET IT.

 

Hope it helps.

[Wildfire]

But one powerfisted vet will do 3.89 wounds over two combat rounds, assuming he gets the charge. With the rest of his squad, he's got a good chance to kill even an unwounded 'fex.

[BrotherAtrox]

I was in a megabattle game recently. Between my 8man VAS and my 5 Man Termie squad - I killed 4 Carnifexes and 2 Hive Tyrants in a span of 4 rounds (2 turns worth) of CQC. I lost 3 Assault Marines and 2 Termies.